Author Topic: slug barrels (Read 1464 times)

mjbgalt · « **on:** September 17, 2004, 09:51:24 AM »

i know a lot of us have smoothbore slug barrels, and there is no denying that they have taken their fair share of deer over the last 25 years or so. however now that there are sabots and rifled 24" barrels available, they still havent become obsolete. so does this mean the sabots and rifled barrels arent what theyre cracked up to be, or is the difference between the two styles negligible?

i bought a smoothbore slug barrel for my mossberg 500 mostly for home defense and rabbits, but why pay $10 a box for sabots if i can get roughly the same performance out of $.97 cheapo foster styles slugs?

anyone with an opinion, please let me hear what you think. is it worth it to buy the sabots, and does it give me extra range/accuracy?

MSP Ret · « **Reply #1 on:** September 17, 2004, 10:15:26 AM »

mjbgalt, you may already know my feelings from my other posts here but I feel for hunting deer at 75 yards and under the smoothbore is an excellent choice. If you want to go to 100-125 yards with certainty, go for a rifled barrel and the expensive sabots. My needs for years with a shotgun were different than a hunter who is looking for an instant kill. If I could disable or incapacitate an an advisary with a less than immediately lethal shot from my issue shotgun that would work. For immediate lethal long range shots our STOP Team was utilized....<><.... :grin:

mjbgalt · « **Reply #2 on:** September 17, 2004, 10:19:17 AM »

alrighty then....anyone wanna buy a barely-used mossberg 500 rifles slug barrel? lol

check the classified section if you're interested.

scruffy · « **Reply #3 on:** September 17, 2004, 10:31:14 AM »

I have both smooth bore and rifled, both 20 and 12 gauge (have 3 slug guns and one pardner 12 I shoot slugs through). For hunting areas with very little timber, only small draws, and large flat fields, I grab either my rifled H&R ultra slug 20 or rifled Remington 870 12 gauge. The ultra slug and 870 w/rifled slug barrel are scoped. Most shots are 50 to 125 yards, with some shot where I misestimate the range being a little longer, pushing 140 yards after I walk it off. Both the ultra and remington rifled slug barrels with premium high velocity sabots will reach out and touch a deer at those ranges.

When I'm hunting areas with thick timber, small openings, with shot ranges from 0 to 75 yards I grab the smooth bores. My pardner 12 gauge has a fiber optic bead replacing the brass bead and the remington 870 smooth bore 20" barrel has "deer rifle sights". Both are quick on target which is necessary for shooting at moving deer through the timber. You might only get 1 full second if your lucky to have a clear unobstructed shot at a moving deer and you need the shotgun up and ready for when they moving through an opening in the timber. You need 100% field of view to pick out the spots where you're going to take the shots as the deer is moving and you're tracking the moving deer with the barrel/sights.

The full 12 gauge diameter brenneke slugs make a bigger hole that the smaller slimmer saboted slugs so the deer produce a better blood trail after being hit. I've never had a problem tracking a deer 50 yards through a harvested corn or bean field or through sparce open timber. But in heavy brushy timber the more blood trail the better. Sometimes (all to often) every drop counts. In the thick stuff they can up and disappear even less than 50 yards from where you shot him. You'd swear the ground just swallowed him up.

Anyway, that's what I do. Sabots/rifled barrel for longer range hunting in open areas, rifled slugs/smooth bore for in the thick stuff and shorter ranges.

Part of that has been because my rifled barreled guns have been scoped. My 870 rifled barrel also has "deer rifle sights" but I've never taken a deer with them, yet. Maybe some day when the weather is bad I'll use it with irons sights instead of the smooth bore or the pardner. Whenever the weather is bad I abondon the field edges and open areas and head for the thick stuff. That's what most of the deer do to get out of the wind and such. I actually see alot of deer on rainy/snowy days because they concentrate more in the thick stuff, which is why I hunt it.

Anyway, starting to babble on and on again... Hope this helped.

later,
scruffy

mjbgalt · « **Reply #4 on:** September 17, 2004, 10:47:35 AM »

so basically what youre telling me is that a smoothbore could do a little of everything, and for less than a rifled barrel.

but the vital area on deer is roughly the size of a paper plate. so one inch better from the rifled barrel isnt going to help anyway.

so with a smoothbore, do you pass up the 100 yard shots because of the accuracy not being good enough? or are we talking about the difference between 2" and 5" which to me is not a difference, as both will put a deer on its butt.

gwhilikerz · « **Reply #5 on:** September 17, 2004, 11:09:34 AM »

mjbgalt I love my smoothbore pardner. I use it for practically all my gun hunting these days. I do this mostly just so I can say I do it. I like the idea of one gun for everything. A smoothbore is that type of gun. And I don't have to pay $10 and up for a box of ammo. A rifled slug gun is just that, a rifled slug DEER gun. On deer I keep my shots to less than 75 yards and less than fifty if I can manage it. I can cleanly take any deer at those ranges with a smoothbore with foster slug.

LMM · « **Reply #6 on:** September 17, 2004, 11:56:47 PM »

In my opinion the demise of rifled slug guns will be the price of the ammo. Do the sabots perform better than the standard slugs? Out pass 50yds yes they do. Is the difference in performance worth the extra price? No. I got rid of my bolt action rifled barrel slug gun and replaced it with a muzzleloader. I picked up an NEF Pardner 12ga this year and will use it with foster slugs in areas as described by scruffy. For longer ranges that is what my muzzleloader is for. I live in a shotgun only state which means no centerfire rifles. We are allowed muzzleloaders and handguns during firearms season. My $.02

LMM

tscott · « **Reply #7 on:** September 18, 2004, 06:19:08 AM »

I have a 45/70 on a sb2. I added 20 gauge rifle, .50 cal huntsman, .308.
If your state allows muzzleloader in shotgun season, I'd go with that..
All of the pieces to my NEF work fine.
Years ago I bought a Remington 1100. Added several barrels, including a smothbore buck barrel...All about $49 each.... Those were the days.
The buck barrel is terrific, and of course the 1100 has little recoil.
The difference between the .20 rifled, and .12 smoothbore is insignificant.
I love those $1.99 slug sales, because the smoothbore is just as accurate
at 50 yards... Never had to shoot farther than that.
Yes, the recoil on my 1100 is much less than the sab2 handi...

HuntenNut · « **Reply #8 on:** September 19, 2004, 04:07:27 PM »

Smoothbore also has the advantage of being able to shoot buckshot in very heavy cover should you desire.

A word of caution, however, that buckshot should only be used at extremely close range. Many deer have been wounded and lost to poor shot with buckshot.

scruffy · « **Reply #9 on:** September 20, 2004, 04:13:50 AM »

Quote from: mjbgalt

so basically what youre telling me is that a smoothbore could do a little of everything, and for less than a rifled barrel.

so with a smoothbore, do you pass up the 100 yard shots because of the accuracy not being good enough?

Yep, a smooth bore can do a lot more than rifled barrel. On my 870 12 gauge I use my "deer rifle sight" smooth bore slug barrel to shoot foster slugs during deer season, #4 buckshot and #2 hevishot on coyotes, and #6 birdshot on rabbits. An IC choke, or IC slug barrel, patterns well out to 30 to 35 yards, making it great for running rabbits, quail, woodcock, and pheasants at close ranges like when using a pointer. And since steel and hevishot through an IC choke patterns like lead out a full choke it can be used for duck, geese, etc. (although I'm having a hard time invisioning using a short "slug barrel" for waterfowl, but if it's all you have...) The IC choke has less range than a modified choke, but it has a larger pattern so it's give you a larger margin for error on the closer range shots. I'm hoping to take my smooth bore 870 slug barrel clay pigeon shooting here soon, just to see how many looks I get. The IC choke should work great. And it'll get me all practiced up shooting that gun for deer season. Rabbit hunting with it also improves my odds during deer season. The more familiar you are with a gun the more accurate you shoot it.

The same is true of my mod choked pardner. I hunt all kinds of stuff with it and when I pull up on a deer I have the confidence in my shot ability from the squirrels, rabbits, pheasants, coyotes, ducks, etc etc etc.

A rifle slug barrel shoots saboted slugs, not much else it can do.... So when I take it hunting when I pull up on a deer I just don't feel as confident. I haven't had the field time. I may have the trigger time from the range shooting paper, but a walking deer is much different than paper.

So if I were you I'd keep the smooth bore slug barrel unless you need to sell to have money for the rifled barrel. A short smooth bore slug gun is hard to beat when hunting deer, rabbits, pheasants, coyotes, etc etc etc in thick areas.

Heck, next spring I'm going to see how my smooth bore 870 slug barrel patterns #4 hevishot turkey load. If the barrel patterns it well, like a full choke, and I can get 40 yards out of the pattern I might use it next turkey season. I like the "deer rifle sights", it's short 20" length, it's lighter weight. Then it'll be a fight on which shotgun gets to go turkey hunting in the timber, the Pardner mod or the 870 slug...

Too many shotgun and shotgun setups, too little time. :cry:

Edit: almost forgot, yea, I pass up on 100 yard shots with a smooth bore with the pardner mod because with just the front beed, no rear sight, I don't feel confident at 100 yards. With my 870 smooth bore with deer rifle sights, maybe. If I was sure it was 100 yards, not just think it was 100 yards and could be 120, and there was no wind or very little wind, and I had a rest or some type of support, maybe. It's a judgement call on the conditions. Offhand shot with 10 mph cross wind gusting to 15 mph and I think it's a 100 yard shot but it could be longer, I don't shoot. If I had a tree to support the shotgun, no wind, and I knew it was a 100 yards because of a range finder, I might take the shot, but probably not. I'll wait for a better shot to come along. Belly crawl closer to the deer. Circle around and try to cut it off. Try to call it in with a gunt of can call. Etc.

When a deer is standing at 100 yards it doesn't require me to take a long range shot. It just means I have more hunting to do before I start shooting. And the hunting (particually stalking) is the fun part! :wink:

later,
scruffy

scruffy · « **Reply #10 on:** September 20, 2004, 04:18:08 AM »

Quote from: HuntenNut

Smoothbore also has the advantage of being able to shoot buckshot in very heavy cover should you desire.

You'll also want to review your state's deer hunting regs. Many states, like Iowa, that are shotgun only are also slug only, no buckshot allowed.

later,
scruffy

HuntenNut · « **Reply #11 on:** September 20, 2004, 09:02:29 AM »

Obviously, any ammo must be legal where you are using it.

It is legal here in MI. I would only use it if I was sitting in a brush pile and expected no more than a 15 to 20 yd shot. Then I would expect it to be pretty effective. I would stick with a magnum load of 000 or 00. And also make sure the gun patterned that load tightly at the expected range.

Thats one of the reasons why I'm trying to trade one of my Tracker 2's for a smoothbore. Then I could carry both barrels and use whichever one is best in the current setup, all for less than the the weight of a regular shotgun.

mjbgalt · « **Reply #12 on:** September 20, 2004, 09:46:34 AM »

well a few days ago i sold my rifled barrel and bought a smoothbore barrel. not only did i make $20 on the deal, i also dont have to pay $12 a box for sabots.

basically i sold it for the reasons scruffy mentioned. i thought about it and came up with the same reasons, even before he posted (great minds think alike, after all) and so in a few days i will have the smoothbore barrel.

lik2hunt · « **Reply #13 on:** September 20, 2004, 12:14:06 PM »

Quote

and so in a few days i will have the smoothbore barrel.

It'll be leaving here USPS priority tomorrow. Sounds like you got a good plan for it.

mjbgalt · « **Reply #14 on:** September 20, 2004, 04:30:51 PM »

thanks. what slugs did you say i should use?

i am a cheap dude so i am using your box to send the rifled one back out. lol

lik2hunt · « **Reply #15 on:** September 21, 2004, 01:24:59 AM »

Mine liked a brand you may or may not be able to get where you are at. They're called Activ (2 3/4") and the hulls are fully enclosed in the plastic. These shot as close to the more expensive Brennekes than any other I tried. Second was the Remington 2 3/4" Sluggers but they seem a little tougher on the shoulder. The 2 3/4" Brenneke Rottwielers are the best and most accurate but cost more here, about $5 for 5. So I just use them for hunting after I shoot one to see that I'm still sighted in.
As far as using my box to send the rifled barrel goes, good luck

. You'll see what I mean when you get it. Not exactly the prettiest one I've sent but probably the securest.
ENJOY!
:biggun:

MSP Ret · « **Reply #16 on:** September 21, 2004, 01:47:18 AM »

Hey mjbgalt, I just tried to send you a PM about free boxes for shipping but it says you still don't accept private messages, whats up with that? I thought you were going to ask Mr. GB or his computer guru Matt to fix that problem? They should be able to clear that up quickly and are usually right on top of things and have answered my questions and fixed any glitches in the past real quickly. Just post to them in the forum entitled "computer security and internet problems" near the bottom of the list (way down in the last group of forums).

I digress. As I was trying to PM to you, the post office has FREE boxes available for Priority Mail items. 2 of the boxes are perfect for barrels, they are triangular and about 3" on each side and are available in 2 different lengths. Just ask for 1 of each and see which fits your barrel best. They also have several other sizes of free (and strong!)boxes available for other items. Try them, you'll like them....<><.... :grin:

mjbgalt · « **Reply #17 on:** September 21, 2004, 02:14:12 AM »

i posted in a forum he frequents with the title "graybeard please read" 4 days ago. i assume he is busy cleaning up after the hurricane went through his area.

mamerch · « **Reply #18 on:** September 22, 2004, 07:16:10 AM »

Well, a 5/8 oz slug at 1400 fps out of a NEF 20 gauge Ultra Slug Hunter Youth model kicks a lot less than a full bore-sized chunk of lead at the same speed. It also shoots into an inch and a half at 50 yards... and I've had 2 inch groups at 100 when I do my part. I don't think anyone can get the same performance out of a smoothbore slug gun. I have hunted the past couple of years with an 11-87 and a smooth bore slug barrel. I was just getting tired of coming up with a 3 shot "pattern" at 40 yards. 6 or 8 inch groups with Remington rifled slugs were the norm. Accuracy sure does breed confidence. I don't have easy access to a longer range than 100 yards but am pretty sure I could extend that to 125 or maybe 150 before energy really falls off too low.
Ya'll ARE right though, a smoothbore is more versatile over all. However, that is why I have other guns and barrels. If I were limited to one gun and one gun only forever, it would be a 12 ga smoothbore double barrel, BUT, I'm not. I have three different barrels for my 11-87 alone. One for wingshooting and clays. One for home defense and one for deer hunting. I bought the NEF youth 20's for my wife and kids to hunt deer with. Smaller, more accurate and lighter kicking. I like them so much I may sell my rifled barrel for my 11-87... That said, I have to respect everyone elses choices, even if I think they are crazy. We're all adults and as such are responsible for our choices. Choose wisely and practice as much as you can.

mamerch

mjbgalt · « **Reply #19 on:** September 23, 2004, 07:40:00 AM »

Likes2hunt,

i got the barrel today. its what i wanted but i have a small problem. the rear sight didnt look quite right....in fact it looked like it was off center and bent. it is, as you know, a folding sight, and when i tried to fold it flat it broke right in half on me.

i assume it wasnt like that to start with, or you would have told me. post office idiots must have dropped it or something. it would have taken a pretty hard knock to break like it did, and where it did.

long story short, i am now looking for a way to fix or replace it. the front sight is fine...can i get some kind of peep sight or something? i dont wanna miss out on deer season because of a stupid sight breaking.

mossberg doesnt MAKE it anymore, and brownells offers about 67,000 varieties but they are all AT LEAST $25-$50 and thats IF i can get it to stay on the barrel, because i doubt they fit the exact same dovetail as the current sight. this is going to be an expensive $55 barrel.

any ideas?

-Matt

lik2hunt · « **Reply #20 on:** September 23, 2004, 04:55:02 PM »

Man I am sorry about that and NO it wasn't that way when I sent it. In fact I had lubed it and worked it back and forth several times before sending it to be sure it wasn't sticking or anything. Did you ask the P.O. about it? I don't know if it would do any good. Is there anything I can do?
Perhaps a good gunsmith could reattach it or one similar at a less cost than the Brownell's route would be.
I thought this was one of my better packaging jobs as far as safety too. They must have really gotten rough with it. Maybe something got stacked on top of it. I thought sure I had made sure it was folded down before packing it tho.

mjbgalt · « **Reply #21 on:** September 23, 2004, 05:30:23 PM »

nah, i didnt think you had anything to do with it. yes it was folded down, i dont know how the heck they broke it with it folded flat!

my luck goes this way sometimes though lol.

i am going to check into a gunsmith doing it. its just another annoying thing that gets in the way of my hunting time, but nothing anyone can do anout it so no use me being mad about it anyway.

i didnt post that to complain to you, just to let you know the P.O. wasnt too nice with your package and maybe not send it with em again...or maybe a different type of package? i dunno.

by the way i know what you meant about me not being able to re-use the package. lol

-Matt

lik2hunt · « **Reply #22 on:** September 24, 2004, 02:20:28 AM »

mjbgalt
I need you to email me so we can talk about this further OK?

bestfndrguy@yahoo.com

As I have stated before I would rather deal with these kind of matters off forum if you don't mind.

I'm glad that you don't blame me but I do feel somewhat responsible and can't really expect you to bear the full responsibility yourself, so email me and we can talk more about it OK? Maybe we can exchange phone numbers and get a lot more said that way.

Brett · « **Reply #23 on:** September 24, 2004, 11:51:16 AM »

I think I read some where that the dove tail groove in the Mossberg slug barrels are standard Williams size. However, I think if it were me I would opt to have a rail brazed on the barrel and mount a red dot type scope.

mjbgalt · « **Reply #24 on:** September 24, 2004, 12:04:43 PM »

thats a good idea....wouldnt be too pricy either. hmmm...

i think i may just do that.

thanks for the idea brett.

mjbgalt · « **Reply #25 on:** September 25, 2004, 05:32:16 AM »

it has come to my attention that posting a reply to liks2hunt on this forum was in poor taste, as it could open up questions among other posters as to people's reputations and make others feel like a spotlight is on them to do or say something.

i apologize to liks2hunt for that, and i would like everyone to know that his reputation is deserved, as a stand-up guy and a good person. he has offered to make this right even though it was not his fault and has been very good to me throughout the transaction. i would not hesitate to buy from him again.

thanks,
-Matt

MSP Ret · « **Reply #26 on:** September 25, 2004, 05:41:22 AM »

mjbgalt, I have had dealings that arose from this forum with both you and lik2hunt. I have found each of you to be men of the highest caliber and unquestioned honesty and integrity. Your above post strengthens my beliefs and knowledge of you both....<><.... :grin:

mjbgalt · « **Reply #27 on:** September 25, 2004, 05:46:42 AM »

HAH! he said "caliber" very appropriate MSP.

but thanks for the kind words. i know we all try to do what we can for friends with the same beliefs and interests. if we dont hang together no one is going to do it for us.

lik2hunt · « **Reply #28 on:** September 25, 2004, 09:11:31 AM »

Well Thanks guys, I sure do appreciate that mjbgalt and MSP. I think both of you guys are alright too. As far as feeling betrayed by any of the post made here....nah, I undrstood. I did feel that it was unfair to both of us what happened and knew something needed to be done just wasn't sure what. It has been settled now and all our reputattions are still intact. All is good.