Author Topic: Excess bullet hardness  (Read 1275 times)

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Offline R J Talley

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Excess bullet hardness
« on: September 19, 2004, 07:28:52 PM »
OK, so here is my problem. I recently cast a few hundred bullets from reclaimed wheel weights. I used an LBT mold in .45 cal that drops a very consistant .459 with 1/20 alloy. I have no idea what these recently made bullets cast but they obviously pass through a .460 die with considerable resistance. When casting, I dropped these directly into a tub of cold water. That was a month or so ago. Yesterday I went to size them and wow did I ever get a lesson. I use an RCBS unit for serious work and have an old Lyman  #45 I use for light duty.  I had put some of Veral's soft Blue in it a week or so back and figured I load it with the .460 die and do the actual sizing in the RCBS unit. That way I wouldn't have to change out the SWG lube in the RCBS unit.  Any way, I ran the bullets through the Lyman 45 and partially filled the grooves with lube. Then when I went to run them through the RCBS .458 die the bullet went in very hard and promptly stuck deep in the die. I had to disassemble the machine to drive the bullet out with a mallet. I tried this scenerio again and it worked four out of five times with the bullet getting stuck on the 5th. Dropping one of these bullets does not dent it..even onto concrete. A thumb nail won't scratch it either. Hitting it with a hammer will lightly flatten it but only with a smart blow.  Since I have no tester I have no idea how hard these are. However, I've been casting since the 70s and have never, even with Linotype, seen anything like this.  Any ideas? Veral, can I send you a bullet for testing? I reclaimed this lead myself and the ingots seem fine. Non-cold tempered bullets are hard but not like this. I even tried a light coat of WD 40 but they still get stuck.
R J Talley
James Madison Fellow/NRA Member/Quail Unlimited

Offline Veral

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Excess bullet hardness
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2004, 11:01:53 AM »
There are several answers/solutions for this one but I believe your problem isn't so much too much hardness but too rough a sizer die.  I polish all new sizer dies, reguardless of brand before even trying them, because none I've used were as smooth as what I like.
 Most hardwares sell buffing compound and the one you need is Dico brand Stainless.  Stainless is the grit designation, and it is white.  You'll need a high speed grinder to do it right, (dremel is fine) but a 2000 rpm electric drill or drill press at top speed will work fine.  Split a 4 inch long piece of rod that will fit your grinder and be well undersize for the die to be polished.  The split goes lengthwise for about 3/4 inch with a hacksaw. Insert a strip of cotton cloth through the slot and wind a 'polishing bob' unto the shaft.  Of coarse it must be wound so the turning machine keeps it tight, normally the shaft turning right hand.  The bob doesn't need to be a tight fit to the die, just a good pad of cloth.  Rub this bob against the white compound while spinning at high speed, until you see the cloth become coated.  (The compound melts with the friction.)  Go into the die with this and work it over good wherever you think it needs shining up.  Don't worry about wearing it oversize, as you'll really work to earn even one tenthousandths of an inch.  Work the taper into the sizer especially throughly as this is where the sizing is done.  --- Your bullets should size with 1/2 the effort or less and pop out easy after this treatment.

On a few occasions I have had water drop hardened wheel weight bullets turn up a roaring 35 bhn hardness!  Though I could not repeat it on demand, I believe it was because the water nearly froze that night soon after the casting session.  You may have a batch like this, but they will size  just fine.

If 460 bullets will chamber in your gun, by all means don't size them smaller.  You'll get best accuracy with them fat in most 45 cal rifles.

If you believe they are too hard yet, you can soften them by heating in a kitchen oven to  about 250 deg for one hour.  Cool any way you like as it won't effect hardness from this temp.   You can experiment with the temperature, changing 20 deg per trial.  e.g. heat only a couple at 250 for the prescribed time, quench and try sizing.  If too hard, up the temp 20 deg and try a couple more, or if too soft, drop the temp 20 deg, etc, etc, until the desired hardness is obtained.  Then run the whole lot.  If they are already lubed don't heat them in your wifes oven unless you want a divorce.  I won't guarantee it will give you one, but will assure you that it WILL make your life miserable for a while!

You can reheattreat them by heating them to 400 deg in the oven and water quenching.  Then to make sure they run through the sizer easy, blow dry the bullets and size within 2 hours after the quench.
Veral Smith

Offline R J Talley

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excess harness
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2004, 11:56:56 AM »
Thanks Veral. I'm going to try polishing up the die tonight.
R J Talley
James Madison Fellow/NRA Member/Quail Unlimited