6PPC or 6mmBR

[Donaldo]

Well here I go again, wanting something weird.  I would like to have a handi rifle chambered in one of the benchrest calibers, like 6PPC or 6mmBR.  Would prefer the 6mmBR.  I see on NEF's site that they do not sell unchambered barrels and do not do custom chambering.  Anyone have any ideas as to how a guy might get one chambered up in one of these calibers?  That is short of buying a custom barrel and having a lug and ejector welded on, etc.  Course I know you would be limited to the rather light weight bullets with the 1/10 twist on the 243 barrel.  Probably have to shoot 95 grn and under.  But it should be good out to about 300-400 yards.  Come on guys, put your thinking caps on.

[Varminter]

The only thing i can think of would be to buy a 243 barrel and have it rechambered or buy a bull barrel 223 and have rechambered and rebarreled to the rate of twist you want. I just got a 243 barrel and am thinking about having it recambered to 6mm AI but its still up it the air.

[mitchell]

varminter i was thinking about the same thing except i'm bouncing back and forth between 6mm AI and 6mm-06 i just don't know if i could get the velocity needed to justify the 06 in a 24 inch barrel. decisions decisions, this curule world what will they do next (maybe a 7.62x39 barrel witha a .308 bore :idea: )

[handirifle]

If I am not mistaken I think the two rounds mentioned are shorter and fatter than the 243.  Are they not?  If so, the best I can think of is to have the barrels drilled out and SLEEVED in the calibers you mentioned.

My understanding is that is just as accurate and cheeper than boring out a smaller caliber barrel.  Plus you can get a faster twist rate if desired.

Although I was just reading up on the PPC and the article said rates of 1 in 12 or 1 in 14 were common.

[JimIowa]

If I am not mistaken I think the two rounds mentioned are shorter and fatter than the 243.  Are they not?  If so, the best I can think of is to have the barrels drilled out and SLEEVED in the calibers you mentioned.

My understanding is that is just as accurate and cheeper than boring out a smaller caliber barrel.  Plus you can get a faster twist rate if desired.

Although I was just reading up on the PPC and the article said rates of 1 in 12 or 1 in 14 were common.

ppc case measures 1.515 and I believe the BR is around 1.750(could be off a bit) but know it`s shorter than .243.

The only way to make either work in a .243 barrel would be to shorten the butt end of the barrel, run a BR reamer in and relocate the retaining lug.

No problem for a smith with a Tig Welder, but may not be cost effective when you tally up the labor.
The ideal scenario would be for NEF to Chamber a 6br in a .243 barrel.
It would give them a marketing edge chambering a cartridge no othe US manufactuer does. I most certainly would get on the list if they want to know if theres demand.

[Donaldo]

The 6mmBR and the 6PPC are both rather short cartridges.  I don't think it would be possible to take an existing chambered Handi barrel and rechamber it for either of these two.  However a Hornet barrel might work.  Most of the guys shooing these two benchrest cartridges are using a pretty fast twist, 1/7 or 1/8, if they are shooing the very long high BC bullets.  Like the 105 and 107's.  Even with this rather small case they are still getting about 3000 fps with the 105's.  NEF would have to fit an unchambered 243 barrel to a receiver and then you would have to have a smith cut a chamber for it.  My guess, because of the liability they perceive, they would never do it.  But if they ever should, I would grab one in a heartbeat.  Anyone interested in 6mmBR go to 6mmBR.com.

[handirifle]

You are still gonna have the bore reaming issue with a hornet with .224 vs. .243  and the cost is gonna go up a bit.  I've heard mentions of 4200 for this but not sure.

Another option is to have a smith mount the NEF lug on a 6mmBR barrel and cut the barrel for the ejector.

One smith that has done this for the NEF before is Lee Shaver, he is at www.egunsmith.com.  I highly recommend Lee.  I had him mount a tang in the wrist of my Buffalo Classic and install a Pedersoli sight on it.  The quality of his work was flawless and he is great to work with.



He told me on the phone that he has mounted octognal barrels on the Handi's before.  He takes the lug off an existing barrel and mounts it to the new one and fits the new barrel to the receiver.

I have no idea of price. but if you really want it, it might be worth a call.

[ScatterGunner]

this guy can do what you want;

www.egunsmith.com

you will need to send him any rifle barrel that fits your receiver and he can make or sleeve a barrel to any caliber within reason.

his prices are good too.

sg

edited - WHOOPS ! i didn't see handi's post !!!!! lee shaver is the way to go here.

[safetysheriff]

Well here I go again, wanting something weird.  I would like to have a handi rifle chambered in one of the benchrest calibers, like 6PPC or 6mmBR.  Would prefer the 6mmBR.  Course I know you would be limited to the rather light weight bullets with the 1/10 twist on the 243 barrel.  Probably have to shoot 95 grn and under.  But it should be good out to about 300-400 yards.  Come on guys, put your thinking caps on.

Here's one outside the box.     Buy a .243 caliber, get a neck reamer from Clymer, telling them that you want to ream the neck out to a length of .45+ inches.....which is a bit longer than the neck on a .30-06.    The reason.....because some evidence backs up the notion that a longer neck cuts down on throat erosion.      Then, make your new .243 brass out of .30-06 brass from Lake City (Federal Armory) in an RCBS die cut to order.    Outside neck turn the brass and you'll have heavy brass (military) which will cut back on the powder required to reach good pressures, and you'll have that long neck to help with the erosion, too.    The resultant rifle should give you good velocities and a somewhat longer barrel life.    

With a neck reamer you should be able to keep the location of the shoulder in the same place that the factory put it.....which is what the .243 head-spaces on.  

I know, lots of guys don't buy it -- but the .243 is hard on barrels.    I've worked with a Model 700 recently, and in three shots that left handed model was Hot !   None of the other calibers heated up that quickly.   On www.long-range.com they discuss the barrel life of these cartridges, and it backs up what I've read elsewhere....and what I've seen for myself.  

Take care.

[Donaldo]

Sheriff,
I agree with you there, I think the 243 is hard on barrels.  I don't have a 243 Handi but do in a commercial mauser with a light weight sporter barrel.  Don't make any diff what kind of powder or bullets you shoot after about 5 shots you can hardly hold your hand on the barrel.  I had it out at the range today and shot a 3 shot group with 68 grn Berger moly HP and 46.5 grn H-414 that I have not measured yet but I tell ya it is small.  I didn't have the nerve to shoot the other two rounds, just knew it would open up.  Anyway, what I really wanted to say here was along the lines of what you proposed.  I have always thought the 243 had much too short of a neck.  What if you chambered a 243 short, say about , well that won't work.  The thought I had is to make a short 243.  Push the shoulder back about 1/4" or so, make it 40 degrees and have a long neck.  So that the powder capacity is about 35-36 grains.  The 6mmBR only has about 32 grns powder capacity if I remember correctly.  (Very dangerous thing, my memory).  Anyway you see what I mean.  Shorten the 243 to give it a long neck and maybe freebore the chamber so that 105 grn bullets would have to line up in the freebore before contacting the lands.  Make the freebore about 0.001" larger than the bullet dia.  Maybe I been thinkin too much.  What are your thoughts on this.  Bye the bye, I had my 223 Handi UV with me also and was trying some bedding things and whatnot.  Nothing spectacular so far.  It will shoot 1" all day but I am trying to get it down to 1/4".  Might not make it but that is where I have so much fun.  The da-n wind was blowing ever which way and did not help much.

[safetysheriff]

Donaldo,

The one thing I find myself thinking about is the potential to develop a 'donut' in the neck of a .243 such as I am suggesting -- crafting it from a .30-06 case.    Such a problem is worth your consideration; and I'm surprised nobody else has brought it up.    I'd forgotten it for a while....

Read up on the problem of 'donuts' at www.redding-reloading.com, and look at 'tech line and tips', then look at 'advanced case forming operations' to see what they have to say.    Read that whole column, please, to see the part about 'neck thinning' and using a size button to remove the donut.    The whole column contains enough information to help you contact the Clymer Reamer Co' to explain to them what you want to do and what your concerns are about doing it safely.    Tell your die manufacturer the same information as well -- for safety's sake.  

This gets to be fairly involved -- but that's what reloading is sometimes about.    It's all the more of an accomplishment  when we get it right, however.  

The part about freeboring:   The Clymer tool should include a pilot built into it, and a taper to allow the bullet to enter the freebore/leade.     The long neck on this cartridge would require a bit of re-throating, which the reamer should be ground for as well.    Take a look at www.clymertool.com to get some information on the tools they produce.

Take care,

SS'

[Donaldo]

SS,
Well I have tried and tried and I can't get the Redding page to load.  Seems I have read about the donut before but can't remember what it was exactly.  What do you think of my idea of a short 243?  Everyone seems to keep trying to put more powder behind the bullet.  Accuracy is not what that is about.  What difference does it make how fast a bullet is going if it doesn't hit what you are aiming at?

[safetysheriff]

Don'

I think of the .223 as a benchrest caliber out to about 400 yds using up to 60 gr' bullets out of the 1 in 12 twist Handi'.    (My heavy-barreled Handi easily stabilizes the 60 gr' Hornady spire points.)

If you get an accurate Handi' in .223 cal' you can find Match Kings by Sierra and A-Max (etc) by Hornady that are match-grade projectiles in the .224 diameter you need.    

I did go outside the box for this (6mm) subject thus far; but it really isn't necessary if you get a good rifle that likes any of the above-noted bullets.   It will take some experimentation, but that's always a potential with a new rifle.     Nothing guarantees you're rifle will work well with the same bullets someone else's likes.    If you get one in a standard caliber that is Super Kool in the accuracy department, does it still have to be "something weird"?

I'm like you in that I don't need the ultimate in case capacity, prefering to burn less powder, and I want accuracy as much as anything else.    The .223 and even more so the .222 Rem' Mag' can give it to you.    There's a hint in that last sentence about re-chambering a Handi' to a .222 Rem' Mag' Ackley Improved, Donaldo!   It still burns less than a .22-250....

Good Luck.

SS''