Brown bear and hand guns- still think its a dumb idea?

[Dand]

Check this from today's (9-24-04) Anchorage Daily News:

Especially you guys saying we should file off our front sights.

Pistol-packing hiker kills brown bear in sudden Chugach foothills attack
SELF-DEFENSE: Muldoon man credits reflexes, shooting practice with saving his life.

By DOUG O'HARRA
Anchorage Daily News

(Published: September 24, 2004)

Gary Boyd, left, a retired Army helicopter pilot, and his friend Dennis Hall spread out the hide of a brown bear Boyd shot with his 44-caliber handgun in defense of his life on the tank trails near his Muldoon home.

Muldoon resident Gary Boyd was walking his boxer puppy Wednesday afternoon along the popular "tank" trail in the Chugach foothills north of Campbell Creek when he heard something big crashing through the brush behind him.

"I thought it was a moose, but then I saw it was too low for a moose," said Boyd, a former Army helicopter pilot and retired maintenance chief. "I just had time to pull my pistol and spin around."

A massive male brown bear erupted from the forest less than 20 feet away, claws tearing up hard-packed earth as it charged toward the 57-year-old .

The bear, later estimated at 750 pounds, had apparently been guarding the remains of a moose taken in a Fort Richardson bow hunt in the woods about 75 feet off the gravel track used by hikers, bikers and dog walkers.

*****
look up the Anchorage Daily News site for the whole story and pictures.

Looks like practice paid off big time.

[Redhawk1]

Dand, I think all those guys that think carrying a handgun in Bear country is foolish and not needed,  they just don't have a clue.  If there is bear in the area a handgun in my opinion is a must.  

[Daveinthebush]

What is more interesting is the number of bears that have been killed.  And, it seems that LosAnchorage is not the best place to be.  

Maybe they should open up grizz hunting to the archers in the spring and thin them out a bit.  Not that I would want to take one with a bow. :lol:

[Lawdog]

Dand,

To answer your question;

Brown bear and hand guns- still think its a dumb idea?

YES I DO.  Most people are not that good with a handgun to dependably handle a .44 Mag. in a time of high stress.  One story where a handgun did help doesn’t make up for the many other times where a handgun didn’t work.  If all I had was my .44 Mag. then of course it would be what I used.  But in country where bears(Brown Bear, Black Bear, etc.) are found you don’t catch me packing just a .44 Mag.(or any other handgun) for defense.  I have been in on too many bear kills(both my own and others) and know what kind of punishment they can take and keep coming to ever put my health in the hands of a handgun.  I realize most would like to think they can draw and fire a handgun accurately when in a hurry BUT a bear can cover 40 yards in half the time a good wide receiver can.  Most times the handgun is in a holster and may even have a coat over the top.  For a test strap on your .44 Mag. in the holster you will be using and go for a walk out in the woods where you can shoot.  take along a friend that has a stop watch and when HE says NOW(not when you are expecting it) you turn, draw and fire.  See how long it takes you.  Anything over two/three seconds and you are bear scat.  Packing and depending on a handgun only gives one a false sense of security and is a gamble with your life as the stakes.  Give me something that has near the same size hole but a heck of a lot more power behind it.  Lawdog
 

[Thebear_78]

I would look pretty silly carrying around a pumpgun or big bore long gun when I go out to check my mail, or walk around the block, walk my dog, take out the trash, ect....but this guy shot this bear less than 1/4 mile from my house.   I'll carry my handgun knowing its what I WILL have on me, because of conveinence of a handgun.  I do always carry my handgun when I'm taking out the trash, I've seen a few bears trying to get into the dumpster before.  I carry a handgun a lot up here, and practice with it regularly, both with my shoulder rig and 44 mag and my 1911 comander with clipdraw.  I know a 45acp is mighty weak but I can carry it so easily that it is what I carry most around town.

[Redhawk1]

Dand,

To answer your question;

Brown bear and hand guns- still think its a dumb idea?

YES I DO.  Most people are not that good with a handgun to dependably handle a .44 Mag. in a time of high stress.  One story where a handgun did help doesn’t make up for the many other times where a handgun didn’t work.  If all I had was my .44 Mag. then of course it would be what I used.  But in country where bears(Brown Bear, Black Bear, etc.) are found you don’t catch me packing just a .44 Mag.(or any other handgun) for defense.  I have been in on too many bear kills(both my own and others) and know what kind of punishment they can take and keep coming to ever put my health in the hands of a handgun.  I realize most would like to think they can draw and fire a handgun accurately when in a hurry BUT a bear can cover 40 yards in half the time a good wide receiver can.  Most times the handgun is in a holster and may even have a coat over the top.  For a test strap on your .44 Mag. in the holster you will be using and go for a walk out in the woods where you can shoot.  take along a friend that has a stop watch and when HE says NOW(not when you are expecting it) you turn, draw and fire.  See how long it takes you.  Anything over two/three seconds and you are bear scat.  Packing and depending on a handgun only gives one a false sense of security and is a gamble with your life as the stakes.  Give me something that has near the same size hole but a heck of a lot more power behind it.  Lawdog
 

Lawdog, You do not make any sense in what you are saying.  Thebear_78 said it right, you cannot always walk around with a shotgun with buckshot or slugs or even a rifle all the time. If I was attacked by a bear and had a chance to shoot it with a pistol, I sure would. If you did not have a gun at all, your chances are even less. I think people need to take this a little more serious. I am glad I am smart enough to make that decision.  :grin:

[Thebear_78]

Animals are just a factor in daily life here in anchorage.  Its not just bears that we might run into.  Moose are also a potential problem.  The problem with moose is that 80 % of the time they are no real danger but other times they can snap and stomp you to death.  I've been charged and chased by moose several times and have never had any trouble with bears at all.   Bears usually either ignore me or run like hell, but a moose is unpredictable, some times they ignore you, others they try to stomp you.  When people feed them they can get very aggressive, and angry when you don't have a piece of bread to feed to them.  

The first picture is of a moose and calf taken in my back yard about 15 feet away taken thru my screen door.  They were no real trouble but I happened out the back door without noticing them the cow could very well have stomped me to death.  When they have calves they are the most dangerous.  They also lure the bears into town after the calves.  

The second picture was a young bull that wouldn't let me walk to my truck when I was trying to go to work.  I yelled at him, waved my arms everything, he wanted a piece of bread, and wanted me to give it to him.  HE woudn't take no for an answer, he actually tried to come up the steps but must have been unsturdy because he backed down.  Notice his ears are back and the hair on his back standing up, this is an angry moose.   He finally wandered off after I continued to yell and wave at him.  I seriously concidered putting a 230gr hydroshock in his head, I was worried about him possibly attacking my girlfriend or neighbor kids.  

Twice last winter I used my truck as a shield so that the neighbor kids could walk to school.  They were scared to walk past the young bull, so they walked on the other  side of my truck while I drove slowly past it.   Some careless people cause all these problems by feeding them and thinking they are some kind of pet and it causes a lot of problems, just like trash cans that aren't bear proof.  You can't blame the animal but you have to be careful just the same.

[Dand]

Well Lawdog you make some valid points.  Bears move REAL fast and CAN take a lot of punishment.   It would be interesting to build a catalog of successes and failures of handguns for bear defense.  I am aware of quite a few successes: in Fairbanks area a woman successfully stopped a brownie just a few weeks after completing a self defense class held by Joe Nava;  Anchorage Daily News reporter Craig Medred feneded off a mama brown with his FA 454- even though it slapped him around and left teeth marks on his gun barrel; a college student working near Dillingham deflected a charging bear with his BH .44; and quite some time ago a guy shot a bear off himself with a 357.  Some folks were well practiced and that REALLY helps.  But ALL saved their bacon because they had a gun with them.  

I worked for ADFG for 24 + yrs & about 15 yrs in bear country.  Sure got tired of packing a heavy 12 ga or .338 and often wouldn't have it at hand or at ready.  Only time I thought I was going to shoot a bear, I realized I was packing a pump Ithaca 37 that I did not know how to use well. Luckily the bear ran around the other guy instead of over him while I was fiddling with the gun. Bought my own 12 ga and got real familiar with it after that. The Dept frowned on us carrying hand guns - though I often did anyway since I was often on duty alone.

Living here in Bristol Bay I am in bear country daily. I always check my porch lights before running out the door at night and I've had my kids do bear drills - walk don't run to nearest door, car door, or neighbor.  One bear went through a  neighbor's house wall - still can't figure out how.  When we think we have a bear around I pack a handgun. I just can't walk around the neighborhood with a long gun -well I could but some neighbors might be distressed.

Frankly cannot recall of a recent instance when a handgunner made things worse by using his gun.  There are probably instances but I sure can't recall them. Heck I think a Sitka area  guide got chewed pretty bad last fall and I think he was carrying some sort of 416 rifle.

[Cabin4]

At close range with the corerct bullet, 44mag will kill the biggest bear.

There is story similar to this one and still  photos are available of the bear encounter. A park ranger was releasing a giz that was captured in one of those bear traps that thye tow behind a pick up. It was beatr that was causiong problems I beleive in Yellowstone.

As the bear was being released, it turned and charged the ranger. The ranger was standing on top of the bear trap were they pull open the trap door. The bear charged the trap and the rangerr jumped off the opposite side of the trap and pull his 44mag revolver. As th ebear comes around to confront him the ranger lets loose and kill the bear. The bear never touched him.

There are about 4 - 6 still photos of this event taken by a visitor to the park. You can see all the key points of what happened including the ranger pulling his gun, pointing/shooting the bear.


This happened some years back maybe as much as 20 years ago. I remeber seeing the photos on one of those discovery channel specials on bears attacks.

[Lawdog]

Redhawk1,

Lawdog, You do not make any sense in what you are saying.

Please explain what doesn't make any sense to you.  I have hunted/visited Alaska every year for the last 30 years.  Wife was born there and her two brothers still live there.  Her oldest brother lives out of town to the point his nearest neighbors are bears.  We stay with them every year and yes I help take out the garbage.  No one carries a handgun while doing so they carry RIFLES(in one hand, not slung over a shoulder).  My brother in-law carries his favorite .358 Normal and his wife has a .300 WSM she carries when she helps with the garbage.  All their kids(4 boys and 2 girls) pack rifles whenever they leave the house.  My wife’s father, who was also born in Alaska and lived there till his death, carried a Win. M71 .348(now in my safe) when ever he went outside.  He lived on the homestead my brother in-law still lives on.  I have seen lots of people dumping garbage in Alaska and have seen more rifles than handguns being carried for protection.  It is a proven fact that most people are not proficient with a handgun in times of stress.  I would rather make more trips dumping garbage with a rifle in my hand than depend on a handgun.  That is a crap game I won’t sit in on.  Lawdog
 

[Redhawk1]

Lawdog, I think it would be cumbersome to always carry a rifle. While hunting I would pick a rifle over a handgun in a bear attack situation.  Now if I lived in a big city, I think I would feel strange having a rifle on my shoulder everywhere I went. Yes a rifle makes more sense, but sometimes it is just not practical in my opinion. But do as you see fit and have fun doing it.  

[Thebear_78]

Simply put.......Handguns have saved a lot of lives.    Regardless of the fact that they are inferior to longguns, we hear stories every year where somebody had a handgun on them and was lucky enough to stop or kill a bear/moose/rabid dog that was intending to do that person some harm.  We don't have handguns because they are superior in power to longguns, we have them because they are so conveinent that will will carry them more often.  Its not practical to carry a long gun around with you all the time, especially here in the city.  

When you first get here you may carry a rifle around with you for a while, but after being out in the bush time and again with no trouble of any kind you start to wonder why you carry that long, heavy, cumbersom longgun with you all the time.  Its hard to fish while holding a rifle, and they normally will dig into your shoulder if you have it slung over your shoulder all day. Even a handgun can sometime get annoying after hiking or wading all day.

I'll continue to carry my handgun with me all the time, and hope to god that I never have to use it.  If I ever do though I know that I'm more likely to be carrying my handgun than dragging around a longgun.

[Cabin4]

I think carring a rifle to take out the garbage seems reasonable. I would prefer to have arifle also in that or similar short task event.

In other longer tasks, like fishing, hiking or working,  I think a rifle is impracticale and a handgun is your only real option. Having a great bear killing rifle slung over your back while holding a fishing pole may not work real well as an example.

A short barell 44mag revolver with the heviest hard cast slugs would be my choice for the longer task events. In the short ones, a 45-70 guide gun or any other short bbl big bore including a win 44mag trapper with hard cast loads or any other big bore short bbl that has fast follow up shot capability (lever or pump).

[Rmouleart]

Every man must know his limitations, what could be dangerous to one man could be a challenge to another, point shooting is a fine art if practiced to due so, I think a hand gun is sometimes better than a rifle in curtain situations, our big boar wheelguns of todays times and the bullets used these days can kill anything with fur in North America with ease, of course with proper shot placement, when it comes to a charging bear, there is really nothing that will just stop him in his tracks, unless you tern the lights out, head shot, bullet need to penatrate the skull, not easily done, if the animal is running at you, something to shoot is better than nothing, I personally carry a loaded rifle and a handgun holstered, even to go to the outhouse;) Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Know one can tell how they will react to a charging bear situation, hopefully you keep calm and fight for your life to the end, Hope your shots are true, fill him with as much lead as you can and maybe you might live. Talk is cheap, actions tell all, just hope you never have to test your skills to that degree. I would think most men would perish under those circumstances. Either have a heart attack or get eaten;) Aim small hit small. RAMbo.

[Cabin4]

when it comes to a charging bear, there is really nothing that will just stop him in his tracks, unless you tern the lights out, head shot, bullet need to penatrate the skull, not easily done, if the animal is running at you, something to shoot is better than nothing, I personally carry a loaded rifle and a handgun holstered, even to go to the outhouse;) Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.  RAMbo.

A frontal chest shot on a charging bear is quite possible. With the right cartridge, it will turn the lights out just like a hit to the brain. I have seen what the likes of a 375 ultra and a 45-70 will do to a big bear on a frontal chest shot. Instant death.

I see you live in southern New Hampshire. You carry a holstered hand gun and a rifle every time you leave the house in southern NH !  Must be a really bad niegborhood.

[Daveinthebush]

This argument is about the same as: "Which came first the chicken or the egg?"

Many of us will have opinions on which is handiest / more reliable / stopping power.  My personal preference is a 870 loaded with 3" Brenneke 1 3/8 oz. dangerous game slugs.   It is quick to point with open sites and I am not worried about stopping power.  The problem is, is that it is sometimes a pain to carry, like when bow hunting.  In that case the .44 usually goes along.

The reason I like the .44 is that it is always on my hip and never leaning against a tree.  It is just handier.  Better?  Probably not.  If the situation ever arose  I want the 870.

But then again; How many of you practice shooting 3" 1 3/8 magnum slugs.  The recoil can be intimidating to some.  And shooting 300 grain hardcast .44's with lots of H110 behind them is no fun either.

There will never be one perfect solution because no two situations are the same.  The best defensive weapon is your own common bear sense and your ability to tell when a situation is going down hill and it is time to bail out, click off the safety or play dead. (Which I never intend on having to do!!)

But where I live and the time spent in the woods I am sure the odds are against me.  I just hope on that day I have the most appropriate choice of weaponey with me.

[Sourdough]

During the summer I always carry a S&W 12ga pump, the wife carries a Mossburg 600 12ga pump with 18in barrel.  We do a lot of praticing shooting from the hip using BPIs Dangerous Game Slug.  She is much better than I am.  We can usually hit a clay target at 20 yards, but believe me it took a lot of pratice.  We shoot skeet two or three times a month, usually after skeet we stop at the range on the way home.  We shoot at clay targets with slugs just to stay in pratice.   I go to the range two or three days a week and often shoot the shotgun after I finish with the rifles.  As far as handguns go, I sometimes carry one just as a last resort.  Last year my partner shot a Black Bear at 15 yards with a .44mag.  He hit it center of the left shoulder.  That bear squalled, rolled around tearing up everything in sight.  Then got up and ran out full speed.  We never did find that bear.  Yet another friend killed three bears in 24hours with his .454Casull at his cabin.  Two Blacks and one Grizzly, one shot each.

[Cabin4]

This all boils down to what is practical to carry based on what you are doing at the time. Carrying a 12 shot gun is not really practical if your fly fishing. This is much more suited for a revolver. It may be ok to carry a rifle if you always have both hands available.

So there is no single answer. A handgun is best at times and a long gun is best for others. The only real decision is, what caliber/bullet in each.

[Rmouleart]

Cabin 4, I hunt all over the country, just because I'm from NH, don't mean I don't hunt places were there is dangerous game. I was just up in gods country, bear hunting off the black river on the boarder of canada, 120 miles northwest of FtKent, the boonies, when bait hunting blackbears in Maine, you hunt till dusk, there for after legal time is over, it gets dark quick, you can not carry a loaded gun at all, unless you are a license guide. I will tell you what, when I stage my truck about a mile away from my site, you will not find me empty till I'm in my truck, there is more black bear attacks than any other bears, maybe not fatal, but I'm sure you would not be feeling good after a good mauling, I don't take chances, I came face to face with a 400 pd plus boar black bear on a trail last week leaving the baitsite going to my truck, this could of been a problem if I surprised him, Luckily we notice eachother and he ran off into the tree line,snapped his jaws a few times, there was some young bears shot at the camp as well, I'm sure there are mother black bears that were not in a good mood either, I have seen the power of bears, even small bears, and no man can come close to the power of any size bear. I also was charged bye a german boar a year ago, this was not a pleasant feeling, I was surprised after shooting one of the larger boars, another would even think of attacking, but I guess they are not afraid of anything, he charge within twenty yards of me, of course I had my bead on him if he got out of hand, He showed his aggression bye taring the bark off a tree with his tusks and snorting at me, I don't take any big game animal lightly, or some day you may become a blood spot,even a raccoon could chew up and down your body like a ear of corn, seen that happen once to another hunter while night hunting raccoons. In other words don't under estimate any hunted animal, always check a downed animal bye giving them a poke with either your rifle or a stick, I have been hunting since I was a young boy and I have seen many things go wrong over the years, I take no chances, I even had a huge moose keep me in my stand, every time I tried to get down he would charge to me, weird but true, Finally my guide came looking for me and the moose decided to leave my site. Aim small hit small. RAMbo.

[Winter Hawk]

I was reading one of the books by Julie Collins where she describes a grizzly attacking her dog team in early spring, and she took it out with a .308.  In the book 'Nunaga" the author tells about killing a polar bear with his 250-3000 as it was rampaging through his camp.  Another book tells about a guy killing a grizzly up on the Kobuk which was trying to get through his cabin window, used a .30-30.  In "The Cheechakos" it describes them killing brownies with a .25-40, IIRC.

The point is that these folks used what they had on hand and it worked, but that doesn't mean it is the best thing to carry to be prepared for a bear attack.  No one would say that the .30-30 is a good bear defense cartridge, even though it has done the job in the past.  Then remember that the .44 Magnum in a handgun is ballistically equivalent to a .30-30.  The long gun in a heavy caliber might not be as handy as the sidearm but in bear country it is still better protection.

-Winter Hawk-

[Thebear_78]

I don't think anyone is debating the fact that a long gun is much better as a bear stopping arm.   If given a chance I'm sure anyone here would choose a heavy caliber long gun over any handgun in a bear attack situation.  It is just a lot easier and more conveinent to carry a handgun.  When I'm out hunting I carry both, but when I'm just out for a walk in the edge of town, or flyfishing, or taking out the trash at night, it is a lot easier to just carry a handgun.  Its just not practical to be carrying a rifle along with you at all times.

[VernAK]

Carry a handgun if you want convenience.
Carry a rifle if you want effectiveness.

[Sourdough]

Reminds me of a story I read about a kid over in the Yukon.  The kid was staying at the neighbors cabin while they were away.  One morning a Grizzly tried to get into the cabin.  Knowing the door would not hold the kid climbed into the loft taking his .22LR single shot.  When the bear got into the cabin, it started climbing into the loft, so the kid tore a hole in the roof and went on up.  After reaching the roof the kid was able to attract the attention of a road maintenance crew that was working nearby.  The men started shooting through the cabin trying to discourage the bear climbing after the kid.  The bear finally gave up the chase and left the cabin.  As he ran away the kid just gave him a shot just to vent his frustration.  The little .22 bullet hit the right spot in the back of the head and killed the bear instantly.

[Daveinthebush]

I was watching the Guns And Ammo show on the Outdoor Channel today and I see att he Shot Show that S&W just came out with a 4" .500 mag.  considerably downsized from the behemoth model.

It could just be the next best thing out there.

http://www.swfirearms.vista.com/store/index.php3?cat=293613&sw_activeTab=1

[Thebear_78]

The 4" S&W 500 is pretty impressive.  440gr bullet at 1500fps out of a 4" revolver.  Thats the most power we have seen yet from that small of a revolver.  From what I hear the muzle blast is very extreme.  Would be cool to shoot a few times to try it out.

[Cabin4]

Rmouleart,

I was simply trying to inject a bit of humor in here.

I also hunt in many places of this great country. I did not go to Maine this year for bear but will do so next year. I hunt in an area up there that is 90 miles from the nearest point of  civilization. 90 miles of rough logging roads near the St. John River. Its private paper company land. There are a ton of bear here and I understand the need for a firearm at all times.

Last year, due to a truck break down me and a buddy to walk 8 miles back to camp in this place full of bear and moose. The last 4 miles of this walk, it was pitch black. Not fun at all. I did not want to carry my rifle this whole distance and neither did the guy I was with. Luckily I had my revolver so I holstered it. We never came across a bear, but we did come across a young bull moose who was not happy to see us at all. Luck was on how side and he finally ran off into the woods. The night before a bull moose charged and hit a pickup truck of another group of hunters at our camp. They were making there way back from the bait sites on one of the logging roads. There stands a moose and he does not want to move. Instead, this bull smashes into the front end. I think the moose are more to fear than the bear. They just don't seem to be afraid of humans very much. The bear, for the most part don't want to have anything to do with humans. I don't take any chances either. 3 Years ago, I can face to face with a 350lb ish boar at my camp in northern Wisconsin while taking out the trash. I was not carrying at the time and it was in in the middle of the day. We have a dumpster at the camp because of all the cabins and the dumpster is set way off to the side of the property on a tree line. It big woods country up there and a very good bear population. The bear are big in that area, not big in numbers like Maine. It was not fun at all coming face to face with this bear. Nothing happened but he was not crazy about me being near his pantry. He snapped and poped a few times but eventually walked off into the woods. This was the last time I ever made a trip to the dumpster with out a gun.

[Rmouleart]

Thats a big ten four Cabin LOL, sounds like we are hunting the same area, I cross the StJohns all the time, hunt the paper corp logging roads as well, Sorry I misunderstood your comment, if your are up that way again give me a yell, most of us stop in Portage before doing the 80 miles of logging roads to get to the bear camp on the canada boarder. Aim small hit small. RAMbo.

[Dand]

I never dreamed I'd stir up this much fuss with this post.

Hope we all learned a few things.

[grodon of the north]

And don't forget about the deer hunter in Kodiak who was attacked and kill't the bear with his Buck knife. (True story) I'm sure he'd of rather had his rifle but instead just used what came to hand :wink:  :roll:

[bearhuntr]

YES I DO.  Most people are not that good with a handgun to dependably handle a .44 Mag. in a time of high stress.I realize most would like to think they can draw and fire a handgun accurately when in a hurry BUT a bear can cover 40 yards in half the time a good wide receiver can.  Give me something that has near the same size hole but a heck of a lot more power behind it.  Lawdog
 

Lawdog,

I believe I understand where you are coming from. It seems that the brunt of your post has to do with makeing (or not) a recommendation to the "masses." There are many people that have absolutely NO BUSINESS in the wild places. That is why most of them seek the companionship of cities. I know of and have friends that would perish if they had to spend more than one night in the wilds of Alaska. We will always have such around. Also, we all know jokers that are long on verbage but short on action. Alas, one must live and share this old earth with all types.

I agree that there are many people that should never be around a handgun...it just goes without saying. My idea of proper bear protection ALWAYS STARTS with a "good thinking cap!" Be it rifle or pistol, a person who is going to be in "fetters" over a brown bear charge is not going to be able to bring any weapon to play regardless. Who knows going in how they will react to the "charge" when it happenes?

I have been involved in charges twice within my years of tenure in Alaska, and don't brag about either. Both were different...both had a happy ending for my part! (I'm still typing, eh? :wink: ) One I had enough time to recite the preamble to the constitution and the other I was glad(afterwards) that my .416 was locked and loaded! What was similar to both was the fact that my brain did not have an opportunity to consider self safety...only bringing the weapon to point and reacting. Trust me there was ample time afterward to consider all the ramifications of the ordeals!

Back to the issue at point. I believe that debating anything of this sort, though enjoyable enough at times, is fruitless. Too many variables to consider to come to a conclusion that is "one size-fits all!" Emotional level, capability of putting weapon to use, state of mind at the time, and the biggie... experience and past training. All of these variables are too large individually to categorize enmass.

I would not be disinclined to cover many miles of territory with naught but my RSRH .44 Maggie strapped to my hip. As a matter of fact, I have. And ran into any number of both brown and black bear to boot. Who knows how many I did not see or realize was there.

Have I taken a brown bear with a 44 mag? No. Have I drawn on a brownie with my 44? Yes. Am I confident that these bears would have died? Yes. Did I have my thinking cap on? Yes. Always! Was the cause of my bear/me interactions my own? No, unless just being there in some way makes me culpable!. Were any of these times "random bear charges at unawares?" No. Is it possible that I might become a victim of an unwarranted, unwanted, spurrious attack by Grizz? Perhaps. Is what I do or am capable of doing something that is open to criticism by others? Always! Would they be right? Probably not. Is my capability or comfort level something I should recommend or pawn off on others without all of the facts of their ability and mental well being? Nodda!

Will I ever change my attitude or outlook? Probably not. Am I going brownie huntin next week? Absolutely!  Will I be packing my 44 Maggie only? Hell no! That's reserved for the .458Winny and 350 grain "X'Ss" are for! :lol:

best,
bhtr