Brown bear and hand guns- still think its a dumb idea?

[Don Fischer]

I lived in Alaska for several year's. there used to be a bar between Wasilla and Big Lake at the old Pitman town site. I lived back in there about five mile's, no water and no electricity. I've packed into the Chughch Mts many time's. I,ve wondered around up in the Brook's quite often also. I used to fill in driving for some guy's leased th Weaver Bros. out of Anchourage going to Prudoe. That was back when you couldn't go past Coldfoot without a pass. I've also parked at the Yukon River crossing and hiked up the river fishing.

I've lived in grizzly country in Montana and have hiked all over it. While I've never shot one and have no desire to I've been around them a lot, both in Alaska and in Montana.

I'm not going to presume to tell anybody how to manage their game or their wolves. And if it make's you feel good to carry around some huge pistol you'll likely not need, do it!

By the way, I think that bar is gone now, it was called the Rainbow Tavern and was run by Scatter Edward's. If you've lived in Alaska long there's a good chance you knew him? How long have you been there?

[Daveinthebush]

One of the biggest problems with the internet is how do you judge the quality of the information that you are recieving.  In a forum like this, we can only see the persons screen name, location and age.  

That said, we all have to take what everyone says with a little bit of salt and speculation because we do not know their experiences and backgrounds.  

I have a friend is Kansas right now that if he posted you might say, "What does he know?"  Well he may be in Kansas now but he has killed everything here in AK twice over and then some.  One of the three rams on his living room wall is so big he had a replica made and keeps the trophy in a vault.  He also does a great job at crashing SuperCubs and walking away.  Probably why he can't get past a metal dector now too.


Just trying to say guys, lets not be too quick to judge others.

Davinthebush

[cma g21]

Undoubtedly a heavy rifle is best, if you have time to use it.
There have been more than a few stories of people knocked down by a bear and losing possession long gun.
Wouldn’t a big revolver be good to have in this case?

[Redhawk1]

Undoubtedly a heavy rifle is best, if you have time to use it.
There have been more than a few stories of people knocked down by a bear and losing possession long gun.
WouldnÂ’t a big revolver be good to have in this case?

I know I would like to have one in that case. And I did carry a pistol while I hunted it Alaska. Made me feel better.  

[S.B.]

I got a late post here. I'm with lawdog. Best thing to do with a handgun is shoot your partner in the foot then run like hell! If you live in bear country, you learn to live with bear's. A bear hanging around justify's caring a rifle. Take a trip into bear country, carry a rifle. If your going fishing, carry a fishing rod!

I've hiked into a number of remote areas in Alaska and, once I got over the hebe jebe's, never felt the need to carry a gun unless I was hunting.
spent time fishing for Dolly Varden down by Portage, actually up river a couple mile's. Saw lot's of big bear track's but never bothered by them.

Probally the most dangerous place is the most northern city in the lower 48, Anchorage. To many people, to much trash to attract bear's, lot's of moose in town. There the stage is set for trouble.

Would I carry a handgun? Hell no!If I'm worried about it, I'm carrying a rifle. The rest of the time I'ed pay attention to where I was and make enough noise to warn a bear off. All those people in such close proxsimity with bear's at McNeil Fall's and there has never been an incident. If you treat bear country like Central Park, you may well be on the menu.

I could never shoot a friend's foot. May fist fight with him but, when it's over, don't get yourself between him and me. Very dangerous place to be, in between friends. Personally, I think you've missed the whole point of this post. Or maybe just hijack it? Anyway, can't disagree with you more. I've been in my share of places where there was no way out, and nothing to fight with. Don't think I want to be there again! But, if you'ld like to go down without a fight, so be it. Your intitled to your opinion.

[Daveinthebush]

S.B.

Best thing to do with a handgun is shoot your partner in the foot then run like hell!

This was just a joke I am sure.  Like: "If you carry a handgun for bears you had better file the front sight off.  That way when the bear shoves it where the sun doesn't shine it won't hurt so much."

Or,

How do you tell black bear scatt for grizz scatt?  
Black bear scatt has berries and little mamal bones in it.
Grizz scatt has little bells in it and smells like pepper spray.

Or,

How do you tell a tourist from an Alaskan?
When it is 35 degrees out the tourist is wearing gloves, a hat and a coat.
The Alaskan is wearing a T-shirt and breakup boots.

[S.B.]

BTT, this discussion is too good to let it die.

[Camp Cook]

"WOW" I just read my old posts on page 2... 

My wife is now 32 years old and is due to give birth to a little boy in less than a month.

I even purchased a new 7.5" SRH 454 Casull and modified my original one to a shortened 4.25" barrel and special sight rib.  I also installed a set of Crimson Trace laser grips, a green fiber optic front sight and changed all of the springs.

I load Beartooth 405gr WFNGC's @ 1200fps out of this hand cannon.

Here's a couple photo's...   





Me wearing my Bob Mernickle holster, double speed loader pouch and belt.



Here's a photo of my Marlin 1895GS 45-70 with Marlin supplied black/gray laminate stocks.



Anyway guys I still get out in the bush as often as I can... 

I even shot a wolf and called in a coyote 3 - 4 weeks ago.

[corbanzo]

That is a good looking SRH, Im thinking about getting an alaskan in .44.  Maybe .454, depending on my mood at the time....  I have both cals already... so it just depends.  The one thing is.... one will always be with me.  No matter where I go, they will always be with me.  When the toys become a way of life... 

[S.B.]

I don't know, looks kind of heavy to me? I think my 629-4 M/G would serve me better but then I already own it, if I wanted to use a .44?

[NONYA]

I had a run in with 2 young griz (2-3) year olds one night while dragging a hind quarter of an elk from a fresh kill,i had left the rifle back in the truck after dragging out the first quarter.That S&W 357 strapped to my hip made me FEEL a whole lot better about the situation,it didnt come to self defense but i did blaze one off in the air while they were about 50 feet in front of me and it was enough to move them along,they didnt totally leave the country,next morning all that was left of an elk missing both hind quarters and loins was the grass from inside the paunch and a few patchs of hair,they ate EVERYTHING!

[dabigmoose]

  I hope we figured this one out by now lol
dabigmoose

[Sourdough]

Someone back on page 2 said something about not knowing of a verifiable instance of someone carrying a pistol and being killed and eaten by a bear.  Well I can't say about the eating part, but you can verify about a mauling victum I witnessed back in 1980 or 81(Can't remember which).  Young man was fishing on the Tonsania River.  Youngman had a Browening 9MM, thought that was adiquate to scare off any approching bear.  I helped the Troopers carry his bloody mangled body to the highway, after he emptied his little 9MM point blank into the bear as it charged him.  I remember picking his face up off a rock, and slipping it back on his head.  He lost one eye, one ear, one arm at the elbow, (again can't remember which arm) and one finger off the other hand.  Seems like over two thousand stitches to close him back up.  Just remember thinking he would not make it at the time.

Never will forget him laughing at me for carrying a 12Ga two weeks earlier down on the Moose river, near Sterling.

[Skunk]

Wow, gruesome story there Sourdough...

[Dusty Miller]

Somebody should've clued the poor guy in about handgun power.  Then again, some people can't be told ANYTHING!

[ken2222]

Dusty...

You did that on purpose, didn't ya?

[Skunk]

Must be Dustys version of wasting bandwidth and forum space

[S.B.]

There are some really leftist ideas around about protecting your own property and the lives of the ones you love. Why, in America, are we so negative about self preservation? Of course I would be carrying a handgun in an area that's known to have a bear presents, and think any sane person would, also.

[Dand]

I can't believe this post is still perking.  Especially when I posted the following story just last fall.  But for the doubters - check out this other story. In this newest handgun vs bear situation, the shooter was not familiar with the gun and didn't even know how to work the holster.  But he saved himself and his hunting buddy with a very fortunate shot. 

Check it out.  http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/smf/index.php/topic,104354.0.html

I've talked to the author of this story and he still wasn't entirely certain of the ammo other than it was Corbon  44 mag.  He must have hit the back bone the way the bear dropped. But in this case, the guys were quartering the moose and had set their guns aside to ease their work. Also, it has been learned that the bear had probably learned bad habits around several other nearby camps in the weeks leading up to this shooting.

[Camp Cook]

I live in anti-gun Canada...

Handguns are so restricted here that you can usually only transport them from your home the the gun club/shooting range.

I am licensed by this anti-gun govenment to carry handguns in remote wilderness areas for the protection of my life and the life of others.

If an anti-gun government believes that handguns can protect your life from wildlife attacks then there is definately something to be said for the capabilities of handguns...

[Sourdough]

I don't want to shoot any bear with a pistol.  But if I have to I will.  That's why I carry the Raging Bull in .454.  You can't always avoid bears, they don't always run like they are supposed to,(guess someone forgot to tell all of them).

Have seen many instances where guys were charged without warning.  Like the guy down near Healey, he walked over to a slope and sat down to glass an area.  He was only a few yards from the truck and his rifle.  As he turned and looked through the binoculers all he saw was brown hair.  He pulled his .357.  Can't remember if he was able to get a shot off before the bear hit him or not.  But he did shoot the bear as it was mauling him.  Finally the bear started walking away, then turned and was coming for him again.  The guy cocked the pistol pointed the gun and held it at arms lenght.  Litterally shoving the gun into the bears mouth, then firing.  The bear stopped, shook it's head, then left, never to be seen again.  Meantime his partners on the other side of the truck never heard the shooting.

Been charged a few times, had to kill two bears, don't ever want to have to do that again under those circumstances.  But I will if I have to.  And yes I often hunt with a Contender.  Don't see any differance shooting it as shooting my Handi rifle or TCR.  Only got one shot with each.

[S.B.]

  He was only a few yards from the truck and his rifle.  As he turned and looked through the binoculers all he saw was brown hair.  He pulled his .357.   Meantime his partners on the other side of the truck never heard the shooting.

Have you heard any explanation for this?

[Dusty Miller]

Well, the new .620 JDJ is just the ticket for you folks that walk amongst those big hairy giants.  This puppy lobs a 1050 gr. lead bullet at 1200 fps and if you need more than one shot then he'd've got ya anyway!!

[Sourdough]

S.B.:  They were parked on the top of a ridge.  The guy had walked off from the truck over the crest.  He had sat down on the ground when he was attacked.  Most of his shots were made while he was being mauled and the pistol was most likely shoved against the bears side, which would muffle the sound.  The last shot was made inside the mouth, again muffling the sound.  Plus there was a strong wind that day up on top.  His partners had walked in the other direction.  Being familure with the area (I have hunted Caribou there for many years) I can understand his partners not hearing the shots. 

My Dad and I were camped on the next ridge that day, Dad claims he heard two shots, I never heard anything.  After Dad pointed out that someone was on the next ridge we watched and saw them load something and take off fast in their Toyota.  At the time we had no idea what had happened.

In fact I think Larry Kanault included this story in his book Alaska Bear Tails II. 

[S.B.]

Redhawk1,

Lawdog, You do not make any sense in what you are saying.

Please explain what doesn't make any sense to you.  I have hunted/visited Alaska every year for the last 30 years.  Wife was born there and her two brothers still live there.  Her oldest brother lives out of town to the point his nearest neighbors are bears.  We stay with them every year and yes I help take out the garbage.  No one carries a handgun while doing so they carry RIFLES(in one hand, not slung over a shoulder).  My brother in-law carries his favorite .358 Normal and his wife has a .300 WSM she carries when she helps with the garbage.  All their kids(4 boys and 2 girls) pack rifles whenever they leave the house.  My wifeÂ’s father, who was also born in Alaska and lived there till his death, carried a Win. M71 .348(now in my safe) when ever he went outside.  He lived on the homestead my brother in-law still lives on.  I have seen lots of people dumping garbage in Alaska and have seen more rifles than handguns being carried for protection.  It is a proven fact that most people are not proficient with a handgun in times of stress.  I would rather make more trips dumping garbage with a rifle in my hand than depend on a handgun.  That is a crap game I wonÂ’t sit in on.  Lawdog
 

Forgive me but, your statements are tipical of authoritative mentality that the politicians have in America today. You want to force your ideas on every one else concerned. This thread started out being about: isn't it better to have a handgun in bear country than nothing for protection.
I'm not questioning your knowledge or experiences.
As Americans, we go through the process of being told what we can do and what we can't do from birth and it's a never ending process from pre Kindergarden to at least 12th grade. No wonder our youth is so rebelious, they've never been given the chance to think for themselves or plug in their own experiences to any situation they have had?
Consider having someone, follow your advice and being killed because of lack of having a handgun on his person when a clear danger presented it's self?
God forbid.
Take a deep breath, relax, you may just learn something you were sure you already knew?

[S.B.]

They don't have to be monsters to hurt you.
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=32184&highlight=redhawk
Steve

[williamlayton]

Having kept up with this thread, I keep asking myownself a couple of questions.
There are areas of this concrete jungle I live in that I would be a fool too approach unarmed.
I can't see any reason too carry a shotgun all the time.
I just don't see why all the fuss about a pistol. I would agree that it is not the best choice. I do think it is a good choice over nothing, and hopefully would be sufficent.
If it is not sufficent, thats just the way things turn out sometimes.
You cannot prevent life, you can be prepared and not prevent life, you could be armed with a howitzer and not prevent life.
Just try.
Blessings

[bulletstuffer]

I've been to Alaska twice.  First time was in 1985 and spent 7 weeks traveling the state and fishing everyday.  Camped in my vehicle.  Saw several grizzlies on that trip.  Some far away and some closer than I cared for.  Had a rifle and shotgun on that trip.  It is very inconvenient to carry a long gun while fishing and wish I had a big bore side arm with me.  Second time was 2004 and the state has changed so much.  No weapons with at all on that trip:(  Flew into Yukon Territory and drove into AK.  Didn't see any bears on that trip.

That being said, no matter the caliber weapon you have, it will not feel big enough when you are face to face with one of these big bears.  These animals are huge!  That is from personal experience!  A big bore of any type will certainly make you feel better than one of the little dinner bells people carry when you are close to something that can eat you;)

Bulletstuffer   

[BBF]

A L A S K A    B Y     G O D

[williamlayton]

Yup.
I wuz first, copy cat
Blessings