Was at the range yesterday...not so good results

[etothepii]

On my first time out with the new 223 handi survivor, I got decent groups at 100 yds using Winchester 55 gr fmj's.

Yesterday, I took some Black hills 52 gr hp, remanufactured out, and couldn't hit paper!
 
I took it to the 50 ft. range, and had to do major scope adjustments. Then, I had an unusual 5 shot group: 3 consecutive shots touching, dead on, then the next two touching, an inch low!

So to me, it seems like a scope problem. Of course there are the other variables: It's a relatively young barrel, only 140 rounds throught it, and the different ammo.

Then, I thought about a similar problem last year with my muzzle loader. One shot on the money, the rest off paper. Adjust the scope, shoot on the money again, then off paper. I shelved that scope, but... I'm using the same rings on this gun. So, could crappy rings cause this problem?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!

[Leftoverdj]

Rings don't seem likely to me.

Slow tracking scopes are common.  Nothing unusual about taking a few shots to settle down after an adjustment. Even without the adjustment, a single five shot group tells you almost nothing. Three in one hole and two in another can easily be chance. Could be parallax, too. A slight change in eye position when shooting at 50 feet can make a big difference with a scope set to be parallax free at 100 yards. Can be barrel heating.

I don't shoot a .223 Handi, but the posters who do are pretty unanimous that the light bullets shoot better. Winchester 45 grains are frequently mentioned. The .223 Handi has a 1-12" twist and that is very slow for .223.

[handirifle]

etothepii
You sound like me and my Savage '06.

You are trying many different things at once and it is impossible to narrow it down that way.  Lets go to the ammo first.  Trying all the diff typs of ammo is great IF you know how well it shoots otherwise.  As leftover said most of us get great groups in the handis with Win 40rd packs loaded with 45gr HP.

If you haven't already done this,

Before we go anywhere with shooting, I suggest you use something like JB's bore paste and use a bronze patch tip on your cleaning rod. Coat it with JB's and scrub the crap out of it for about 40-50 strokes.  Next, I run a old (fired) 223 case coated with JB's and chucked into a cordless drill, by means of a screw run through the primer hole.  go easy on this part and run it to the shoulder very lightly and in and out of the chamber.  You're just cleaning out rough edges.

Get a couple boxes of that stuff and start at 50yds.  Like leftover said, make about 4 aim points on that target and shoot at least 4 groups.  Make sure you let the barrel cool about 10min between groups.

My 223 Ultra started out not liking the Win Varmint pak too much but it shot 3 shots under a dime circle first time out with 40gr Vmax loads.

Now with a couple hundred rounds, it's starting to like anything I feed it.  (so far)  Start with these basics, hope it helps.

[gwhilikerz]

Did you go back to the winchester 55's to see if you gun still liked them?

[Ditchdigger]

I could be the scope,I usually tap the adj. knobs with my pocket knife after every adj. If I don't, it sometimes takes several shots to jar them into place. I've put 500 or more rds. through mine,and 40gr. Vmax's and H 335 is the only thing that will make it shoot decent.  Digger

[etothepii]

Thanks for all the responses, guys. What was said about the scope being slow to change sounds logical. I shot several groups while working with the scope (not just the one group I mentioned) and wierd things were happening just after some adjustments. I thought a click on the scope was pretty much an instant thing. Knowing that it may take some vibration to make it click over makes sense now, thinking about the type of results I was having.

I think I'll get some of the lighter Winchester rounds, and work extentively at 50 yards.

Oh, I bought a brass patch swab, went to use it, and it won't thread into my cleaning rod. There must be a couple competing types out there, eh? I'll work on the bore and chamber too. I just need to get the supplies, and the time :?

Thanks again for the tips!

-1

[Donaldo]

First of all, I think you need to state what scope you are using.  I am not going to flame Simmons, etc. Because I have a Simmons ATV that holds zero very well and adjusts correctly.  But if you are using one of the el cheapo B, S, T,. scopes you may find that this is your problem.  I have no experience with any of the Handi's except the 223 U. Var.  It is settling down now after about 170 rounds.  It shoots the WW 45 JHP into about 1" anytime I try it.  Will start with hand loads as soon as my shell holder comes in.  Also as you may have read, Handi's are very sensitive about where you rest them if you are shooting from the bench.  Try resting the receiver on the bags.  Resting the forearm on the bags can and will result in very unusual groups.  Also don't waste your money and barrel time on Wolf brand ammo.  It seems to me the 223 Handi likes the light weight bullets, 50 grn and under.  Someone in this thread stated that 1/12 twist is slow for a 223.  That is bunk. 1/14 is about standard.  Only the people shooting the heavy, read over 64 grn bullets need anything faster than 1/12.  Go to www.Bergerbullets.com they state what twist is required for each of their bullets.  You don't get much better than Berger.

[aulrich]

Watch out for the scope base as well.  I had a far bit of early trouble which was probably due to it moving around. I ended up bedding my scope mount and locktiteing the screws.  Other things could be you need to free float the fore-end. Another thing that can cause issue is where you rest the forend while shooting groups. Many report shooting the best wile resting on the hinge,  mine seems to shoot the best shooting while resting by the forearm lug.   I don't recognize your name so I am not sure how long you been around but there are lots of threads covering the common issues.  Have patience work your way though and you should end up with a decent shooter (I have heard of very few duds especially in 223) and don't make any decisions untill you get at least 200 rounds though it there does seem to be a breakin period for these barrels.

[Mitch in MI]

A trick that Air Rifle Field Target shooters use is that they always tighten the adjustment screw in the turret onto the erector tube. If you want to loosen the windage or elevation adjustment a few clicks, loosen it a turn and then tighten it back down. When you loosen the turret slightly, sometimes the spring doesn't move the erector assembly immediately.

With most (if not all) scopes, you want to turn the adjustment clockwise as you finish turning it.

I was never that good at field target, I always insisted on holding over/under instead of resetting my scope for every target. My way was better for field shooting practice than for maximizing score.