Favorite military surplus rifle, and worst?

[His lordship.]

I have owned numerous military surplus rifles over the years, mostly bolt actions.  I have owned SKS and AK rifles, and shot other types like M-1 Garands, AR-15s, etc. that other shooters were generous enough to let me shoot at the range for the experience.

As to my favorite over the years...tough question.  I guess it comes down to the Japanese 6.5 cal. Type 38 for fun, and being smooth to shoot, and interesting.  The Mauser 98 for its availability and overall good design.  Favorite semi-auto...my Russian Saiga in 7.62 X 39, though not a true miltary rifle, it is based on the AK receiver and barrel.

The worst...an early Japanese type 99 with all the goodies.  A nicely made rifle that shot well, but the GI who brought it back had cut the stock to fit it into his duffle bag, you could not see the saw cut as it was under the rear barrel band.  The rifle would have the forward part of the stock slide forward when the gun was shot.  Very annoying.  I parted the rifle out and sold it.

What was/is your favorite bolt action military rifle, and semi-auto rifle?  What did you like about it that was special, was it all around good, or something unique?  What was your worst, something that was not just disappointing, but perhaps disturbing as well?

Thanks.

[IntrepidWizard]

Best MI Garand,worst Carcano POS

[kjeff50cal]

My fav., my next one...... (all right my MN M38) my worst.... DITTO on the Carcano (6.5).

kjeff50cal

[Runs with Scissors]

Favorite is the Swedish M41B Sniper Rifle. Incredibly accurate, cool history and very well  maintained. They lived in the homes of the Swedish soldiers (conscripts) and were serviced regularly. All were reworked in 1955 and finally retired in 1995. Only 5200 were made and only 2000-3000 of them had the excellent Ajak 4X scope.

Worst. Junky Mosin Nagant M39 owned by a buddy. He's lucky to hit within a 15" circle at 100 yards. A gaping stock crack is repaired with a nail. I call it "the boat anchor".

Bill

[kevin.303]

hey bill i don't think i ever heard of those.are they anything like an AG42? do you have any pics? after being an active poster for almost 2 years it should be clear what my favourite is but my least favourite is also a .303. the accursed Ross!! of course all of the ones i've handled where mistreated piles of junk save one. the good one was very accurate and nice, but i kept closing my eyes and turning my head before i fired it. too many horror stories from WW1 of the bolts blowing open!

[Runs with Scissors]

Kevin.

I kind of stumbled upon the M41B about a decade ago because of my fondness to Swedish Mausers. They were just being surplussed at the time.
Do a web-search for the "Swedish M41B" and you'll find some information, but not a lot. There were only 5200 of them in the first place.
Basically Sweden decided they needed a sniper rifle in 1939. They were spooked by both Russia and Germany at the time. They notified their armorers in Germany and Sweden (Gustafs and Oberndorf/Mauser) to start collecting the best shooting M96's that came in for service. They grouped them to test accuracy and set them aside. In the meantime, Germany needed high quality iron ore for munitions and Sweden needed a good scope and quick-release mount. Sweden made a deal with Germany for a high quality scope and scope-mount in exchange for the metals. The deal was for 5200 Ajak 4X scopes and matching mounts. Hitler, in reaction to Stalingrad, backed out after 2000-3000 Ajak scopes and mounts were delivered. He needed them for his own troops. The rest were fitted with an inferior Swedish 3X scope.
The rifles were made between 1941 and 1942. The M41B could be based on either a Gustaf's or Oberndorf M96. Most chosen were Gustaf's as a matter of pride.
These guns saw pampered service until 1995 and some of them were near 100 years old!
Samco still has a few left. For the price, I would grill them as far as condition They purchased all of them when Sweden dumped them.
Mine is a 1918 Gustafs with a scope numbered in the 2200's. It shoots quarter-sized groups at 100 yards with pet handloads, and doe's around 1" with open sights at the same range.
These are great rifles!
If you like Swedish Mausers, they are supreme.

Bill

[kevin.303]

sound kinda like the L42A1 sniper rifle the brits retired in 1992. they where No.4 LE's rebuilt to .308. while the actual rifle wasn't more then 50 years old the design was 104! theres a good article about them in this months American Rifleman.

[1911crazy]

I like my swede mausers my CG 1907 will shoot 1 1/2" and under groups at 100yds, but i don't sell my german built 7mm mausers shot either they shoot pretty much the same as a swede mauser too.  My M39's shoot awesome too.  The Finn's were noted for making 600 meter shots with their M39's(reworked captured 91/30's)  These were captured 91/30's from the russians and reworked till they shot 1moa @100meters.  Next comes the big bore wouldn't want to be on the wrong end of it EXTREME HAKIM what a gun nothing compares to the big bore power and very little recoil of this awesome gun.  My next gun is overlooked by many shooters because of its caliber but its another gun you just have to shoot to understand it, its one of the best battle rifles ever made, its very rugged, it has the reciever of an FN49 and the size and reliability of an SKS its one mean little shooter, its the pitbull of the semi auto's its the French MAS 49/56 Commando Rifle available in both 7.5 french and 308nato I have both and you can't tell the difference between them both are very accurate shooters and well worth the reputation they have earned.  When you first see the muzzle end sticking up in a gun rack all you can say is whats that??  She sure looks mean. The Swedish Ljungman, Egyptian Hakim and Egyptian Rasheed are all swedish designed semi auto rifles and they preform flawlessly.  The Belgium designed FN49 is another awesome rifle its funny how each of these rifle seem to reflect similair designs but some cover other different calibers too like the FN49 comes in 30-06,  308, 7.65 and 7mm mauser.  I like another gun we don't hear too much about too is the Czech VZ-52 I think its overlooked by the hard to get 7.62x45 round but its another awesome shooter too.  My only problem is I never met a surplus military gun i didn't like and want to own for their all a part of history and in that time I think we will never see a great bunch of guns like we had back then again. Think about it if we live 50 years from now what would we collect for this period right"now"in our lives?  One gun comes to my mind an AK47 its been copied by many other countries and sold around the world it has to be the most popular gun ever made and nothing will ever compare to its reliability/dependability and the battle worthyness of the AK47 design.  I think we are lucky to beable to collect the rifles of WW2 for it can't get any better than this period.                                BigBill

I just mentioned a few not all of them but all of them deserve a place in my safe because they are a piece of history.  Some guns just stick out in my mind too.  Like the Russian SVT-40 Tokarev before the russian were issued this gun they were using low maintanence mosin's then they recieved this semi-auto rifle and they were soon to be found unreliable because they didn't keep them clean and lubed the russians tried to use and treat them like the mosins.  Each gun does have a story.

If your Finnish Mosin M39 isn't accurate it maybe that someone took it apart and lost some shims that are between the reciever and the stock.  The finn's were so fussy about accuracy they even shimmed thier stocks. I'm very impressed with the swede mausers, the chilean 7mm mausers  and the finnish M39 Mosins with their accuracy.



Don't you wish these guns could talk about where they have been and what they have done??

[S.S.]

.30 Caliber U.S. Carbine is my favorite.
Or is it my P-14 Enfield.
6.5 x 55 Swede ?
I know, I know, It must be my 98 k !!!!

WHAT KINDA' QUESTION IS THAT TO ASK A FELLA'
IN THA' FIRST PLACE !

[Stan in SC]

All of the milsurps have good and bad points.Whether it be on price,availability or ammunition price.I like all of the bolt actions.
As far as semi automatics the SKS and AK clones are about the most prolific and cheap to shoot right now.
I think the Mosin Finned M39's are vastly overrated.I have a Mosin M38 and a 91/30 that will shoot with and better than most M39's.
The Mauser 98/22 is long but shoots wonderfully.The M48,M24/47 and all of the 8MM bolt actions are good.Turk 8MM ammunition sells for $4 per 70 round bandolier.That's about some cheap shooting.
It is amazing what you can get form not much money in a milsurp.

[huntsman]

Not too much experience with milsurps (yet). So far, this is my line:

Best: M96 Swedish Mauser 6.5x55 sporter, best shooting/feeling gun I have ever owned.

Worst: Russian SKS 7.62x39 sporter w/ synthetic stock, clumsy and heavy, not all that accurate, kicked and barked too much for such a weak cartridge.

[His lordship.]

That is the challenge of my question...most, if not all the old military rifles were good guns.  They had to be to issue to large armies and have them support the will of the state under bad conditions.

Some rifles that were marginal for me was a 1941 vintage Carcano, it was very particular on ammo, yet it could be very accurate.  The action was stiff, this could reduce my rate of fire in battle.  Not a bad gun though.  I had 2 SKS's rifles, too many moving parts to maintain.  And even with a recoil buffer, the bolt body still struck the receiver rear area to some extent.  The gas piston assembly housing would become loose after taking it off and on a few times.  More accurate than my AK's and the brass spits up, instead of to the side, nice feature at the gun range as I don't hit people to my side with spent cases like my AK likes to do on occasion.

Sure, Swedish Mausers are accurate and well made, had one.  Problem with that rifle is it heats up real bad quickly after firing as little as 10 rounds, then stays hot, I once had it so hot after 30 rounds that the top handguard stock was hot to the touch, then it took 20 minutes to cool down!  None of my other rifles are that bad.  

I have enjoyed shooting other gun club member's AR-15s.  Accurate rifle, but I keep thinking of how they kept jamming in Iraq, and lack hitting power.  I like the M-14 (M-1, A1) but way too over priced, $1,100 to $1,600 for a plain military rifle with a heavy trigger, give me a break! :x

Had a British No. 4 made in 1948.  Fun shooter, and very accurate.  Still, the rifle would fail to feed the cartridge just before the last round, heard that this is not unusual.  How would you like to go into battle and have the thing fail to feed on a regular basis?!  The handguard would slide forward to eventually touch and fowl the front site, despite tightening of the screws on the front barrel band.  Heard that this is normal for the design.  Noticed craze cracking in the rifling forward of the chamber, got rid of the gun for parts, heard that some of them had blown up from cracking in this area.  Pretty bad for a 1948 vintage gun, poor metallurgy?

Had 4 Mosin Nagants, they seem like decent battle rifles.  The stripper clips I have tried are garbage, they do not work.  Why is it that we don't have proper stripper clips for all these Mosins?

Toyed with getting a MAS 36, nice sites, but the stock is for a midget.  Frenchmen are apparently not 6 feet tall on average.  Shot a Springfield 1903, seemed nice, but the recoil from that 30-06 with the steel butt plate was too much, handed the gun back to the owner after 5 rounds.

I would not say the above complaints make them bad, but each one had an aspect that was poor.

[SBF]

My favorite has to be my Swiss K31's.  The ammo can get a little pricey but the quality of workmanship, the unique straight pull bolt action and the accuracy outweigh the ammo costs IMO.

I don't really have a "worst" so to speak but I have a few which I have never shot, I don't feel them calling to me from the back of the safe.  My MAS 36 would probably be the one though, esp with the availability and cost of the 7.5 French ammo.  I got it from Numrich about a year ago for $36.00.  It cleaned up real well but it just doesn't do anything for me  :?

[1911crazy]

Are we talking military surplus guns??  That are on the C&R list??  For me anyway my first requirement it has to have a  REAL WOOD STOCK its just not a real gun without real wood it just has that look and feel to it.  Hunting weapons are ok with syn. stocks because of wet weather can swell wood stocks sometimes if there not sealed and maintained right. Maybe its just me about the wood stocks??               BigBill

My only problem is i like anything that smells of cosmoline and shoots that gets my vote.  As far as which one i like the best i don't have an answer all the surplups seem to fit me right.

The 7.5 french ammo is available from SOG for $8 a bx its FNM ammo and it can be reloaded thats much better than shooting the surplus 7.5 linked MG ammo out of it.  

ChrisD.   Your swede heated up because of the hotter PMC ammo my swede never got hot with Sellier & Bellot ammo.

[Runs with Scissors]

I agree 100% on Wood Stocks.
The only guns I ever owned that were synthetic ( PLASTIC) were the Red Rider BB gun I got for a childhood birthday and a Remington XP something pistol from an uncle.
The Remington was a bolt action pistol that fired  the .221 Fireball cartridge. It was weird because the pistol grip was in the middle of the gun but it shot quite well.
I hated the BB gun so badly that I traded with a friend who had one with Wooden Stocks.
I sold the XP long ago.

Some wooden stocks don't smell or feel like wood. My Encore was that way. I spend a lot of time with it hunting so I stripped it and refinished it with BLO. Smells like it should now, and the wood is much warmer to look at.
Maybe I should smear some cosmolene in the action :wink:

Bill

[kevin.303]

bigbill, you mentioned that the czech VZ-52 was overlooked because of the hard to find 7.62X54 ammo. i would assume then that it is a different round that what M/N's and SVT's use?

[SBF]

bigbill, you mentioned that the czech VZ-52 was overlooked because of the hard to find 7.62X54 ammo. i would assume then that it is a different round that what M/N's and SVT's use?

The MN's and SVT use the 7.62x54R cartridge.  The VZ-52 uses the 7.62x45 round, much harder to find.  IIRC there was a VZ-52/57 varient that used the 7.62x39 (AK/SKS round).

It does get pretty confusing at times.

[1911crazy]

Sorry guys Its VZ-52 7.62x45 thats hard to find ammo.  The later VZ-52/57  that shoots 7.62x39 ammo  both are suppose to be the sweetest shooters.                                                      BigBill


I have another awesome gun i forgot to mention its a CETME in 308win/nato  Its the smoothest gun I have ever shot so far there is hardly any recoil at all.   What a shooter when i first shot it it ran thru two boxes of ammo quicker than i could reload i was so impressed with it i couldn't put it down.  My second trip out it jammed open so i changed the recoil spring and but in a new recoil buffer and its much better now but its one awesome gun too.  Its my first sheetmetal gun too. I think this one is goping to get all the goodies I already put a lazer dot sight on it and maybe a scope/tripod next.  It has real WOOD stocks too.  Its one of my most expensive surplups at $399 but i just had to have it.


How would you rate them?  Are there any dogs here?


LONG BARRELS;

Egyptian Hakim  8MM
Russian SVT-40 Tokarev 7.62x54
Swedish Ljungman  6,5x55
Garand  30-06

Intermediate barrels;

FN49's  30-06, 308, 7mm
Spanish  Cetme 308win/nato
French MAS 49/56 Commando Rifle  7.5 & 308
German  G43   8mm
M14  308

short barrels;

AK-47 Russian  7.62x39
AK-47 Chinese 7.62x39
SKS  Russian   7.62x39
SKS Chinese    7.62x39
SKS  Albanian  7.62x39
SKS Romanian 7.62x39
SKS Yugo M59 7.62x39
SKS Yugo M59/66 7.62x39
Egyptian  Rasheed  7.62x39
Czech  VZ-52         7.62x45
Czech  VZ-52/57    7.62x39

[MGMorden]

My MAS 36 would probably be the one though, esp with the availability and cost of the 7.5 French ammo.  I got it from Numrich about a year ago for $36.00.  It cleaned up real well but it just doesn't do anything for me  :?

Wanna sell it?   I really wish Numrich still had some of these. I tried to get one of the U-Fix-Em's from Century a while back but they were sold out .   

[S.S.]

That vz-52 was a butt ugly little rifle!
looks like someone crossbred an SKS and a Hakim!
there are chamber adapters that change it from
7.62x45 to 7.62x39.

[RB Rooson]

Best & Favorite:  K-31 Schmitt-Rubin Straight-pull (like shooting a Swiss-watch with the kick of a .30-06)!!

Worst:  ANY Carcano rifle (simply do not like 'em)!!

[kjeff50cal]

I think I see a pattern.
And a nominee for Milsurp of the week!!!

kjeff50cal

[1911crazy]

I still have a case of 7.62x45 ammo but i wish someone would make some new stuff too.  It sure is a different breed or rifle(VZ-52). I'm not sure what the difference in power is between the 7.62x39 and the 7.62x45??  So many calibers and so little time.       BigBill


Rifle of the week??  Its either the 8MM Extreme Hakim or the French MAS 49/56 Commando Rifle in 308nato both are on the top of the heap.

But in popularity the SKS rules.  You just can't beat the bang for our buck with an SKS.   With the yugo's at $69 to $89 what a deal??  I think it should be a law every household should have at least one.

[sc03a3]

greetings all,my first post at this forum. my favorite of the 50 surplus rifles i have would be without a second thought my sc03a3, it shoots 2 inch 10 shot groups with cast bullets. my least favorite is my m38 carcano, but i havent given up on it still working on loads......sc03a3

[MGMorden]

my least favorite is my m38 carcano, but i havent given up on it still working on loads......sc03a3

Be aware that Carcano's use an oddball 6.5mm (.268" instead of .264").  Hornandy does make these, and Midway has them for sale.  If you can't get good groups with what your'e using, and you're not already using the .268" bullets, then you might want to give them a try.

[Robert]

I have a butt ugly SKS and I love it...but I also really like the old VZ-24 8mm and my recent M-44 with 7.62x54...OK...here are my thoughts on these old firearms....I reload for ALL of them...these BUTT-UGGLY rifles are proven BATTLE RIFLES.  They WORK.  I can hang them on my wall, burry them in the yard..whatever...but if this country is attacked again...I can hand them out to my neighbors with a pocket full off ammo and they can protect their family.  Get as many of them as you can.....within reason...Ha Ha.

[sc03a3]

:-)greetings mg morden, yes, ive tried the .268 hornady 6.5 bullets, and they work ok in my carcano [better than .264 dia.] but i mostly shoot cast bullets in my milsurps. im working with the new lee 170 gr. 6.5 mold, they drop out of the mold at.270 dia. now im working on powders and charges and sights trying to get the right combination. thanks for your input.....sc03a3

[NavajoNPaleFace]

My favorites:  either one of my Springfield Remington 1903A3 or either  of my Swede M96s.

I can honestly say I don't have a bad shooter or one I'd get rid of.

I guess I've been lucky like that.

[dogngun]

I am almost always broke, so I manage to get a surplus rifle ( or a few) and get them to work right, and eventually sell or trade them on another one so I can start "fixing" them again. I shoot them all.

I have had ;

several .303 Enfields, # 1, 4, and 5.
A 1917 .30-06 Enfield (sportered.) ( Excellent)
Several "03-A3's, one sportered.
Many Mausers, Turks, M-48's, '98's, Chilean, Czech, 2 Izzy's
M-1
M-1 carbine
Several SKS's
AK
Hakim
M39 Finn Mosin

ETC.....

I liked tham all, and found them all interesting and great fun to shoot and tinker with. I have no favorites, and I'm still looking for models I haven't had yet. ( Or maybe that I have had before.)

Right now it's an Israeli Mauser that started as a JP Sauer 1938 '98. Bore is like new. Will shoot it this weekend.

Have fun.

Mark    

Right now

[Doc TH]

M 1 Garand: excellent, excellent...nothing more to say.

German Kar 98: superb workmanship, highly accurate, but issue sights are very poor for any precise shooting.

03-A3: OK; good sights but a mediocre version of the Mauser

Russian SKS: reasonably good workmanship - everything milled, chrome-plated bore, designed for peasants who will never clean it.  A decent rifle out to 200-300 yds. Clever internal magazine reasonably rapid reload with stripper clips.  Crude sights, but best of all totally reliable and very cheap ammo.

M-1 carbine: they were right; it's a much better choice than any handgun.  People who whine about stopping power don't seem to have the same criticism of the MP-5, or Schmeisser, etc., all of which are much less powerful.  Check the Army Medical Dept. wound studies from Bougainville and Italian campaigns.  Carbines seemed to do OK there.