Author Topic: BAD OUTFITTER PLEASE CLICK LINK (Read 3088 times)

cam69conv · « **on:** September 28, 2004, 06:35:10 PM »

Some people were having trouble viewing the photos I took on the hunt that I claim was canned but that the outfitter and the professional hunter that promoted the hunt claimed was fair chase. I have reduced the resolution of the photos to make them easier to load and added detail to the story at the following link.
http://www.donahue.tv/Hobbies/Hunting.html
BTW, on Monday I have a scheduled conference call with investigators from the Manitoba Conservation Department (their equivalent department to Fish & Game)

Please click the above link and read the whole story..You guys will be shocked and HOPEFULLY DISGUSTED at the way this place operates!!!
To anyone with influence in the government lets all band together to put a stop to thier Buisness...This wasnt MY own personal experiance but that of a fellow hunter..I am merely spreading the word on this outfit

Cabin4 · « **Reply #1 on:** September 30, 2004, 07:01:21 AM »

Thats some pretty nasty stuff. By the way, I have seen Kieth Warrens shows on the Outdoor Network. Most of his hunts are obviously on canned preserves. I can't remember seeing one that was not. So in this regard, I would have been very suspect of this program. And I saw the show that he announced this hunting program that this guy went on.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 12, 2004, 07:51:26 AM »

I registered on Kieth Warrens talk forum and made the following posts. First I was welcome but that changed very fast. As long as I was sticking up for Kieth I was welcome. As soon as I asked questions regarding alleged statements he made, all of a sudden the guards come out to shut me down stating that this is no place to discuss the issue. Really, then why are they discussing it. The answer is simple - as long as you stick up for Kieth its an open topic. As soon as you ask questions, its a closed topic. Very alarmimg and self inditing if you ask me. And Kieths opening statement, very little on substance to the issue at hand. He avoids the issue with smoke screens and answers to questions that no one asks.

I don't know for sure. But I think this guy Donahue may have some real legitiamate issues concerning Kieth Warren and BVO.

Take a read on the my posts below and how the modirator and other followers of Kieth follow up. I copied and pasted these in word document on my c drive in case they delete them.

Cabin4 Re: Keith responds to Donahue« Reply #68 on: Oct 11th, 2004, 12:30pm »    Quote Modify Remove
I think the "central theme" of Bill Donahue's issue was that the hunt was assured to be "fair chase" by both KWO and BVO. Since it turned out to be a canned hunt inside enclosures, that would seem to be a contradiction from the assurances given by BVO. In my mind, that is a legitimate issue to be brought forward by any hunter, not just Donahue. As a hunter, when I talk to an outfitter and ask questions, I expect truthful answers. I think we all want that. I don't know if Donahues claims are accurate and thruthful concerning him asking those questions, but it is alarming and we should all take from it that you have to ask questions and we deserve truthful answers from outfitters. Get it in writting if its not outlined in there hard copy brochure, whatever the important questions are that you may have. I'm not here taking sides on this issue. Just pointing out the fact, that outfitters sometimes offer misleading details about a hunt. Hunters need to take this into account and dig deep for answers.
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TrophyMamaYaBB God Mama's Girls! Gender: Posts: 605       Re: Keith responds to Donahue« Reply #69 on: Oct 11th, 2004, 12:40pm »    Quote Modify
First , Welcome to the forum Cabin4! I agree with your point , ultimately , it's the hunter's responsibility to thoroughly check and even re-check an outfitter and the operation before booking a big expensive hunt like the one Donahue went on. I respect and will sometimes listen to other peoples experiences and opinions - but a opinion is simply that - and I always do the most research possible.
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cabin4YaBB Newbie Gender: Posts: 3       Re: Keith responds to Donahue« Reply #70 on: Oct 11th, 2004, 12:48pm »    Quote Modify Remove
Thanks for the welcome. I agree it is up to the hunter to check these things out. I just went to BVO web site. It says nothing about enclosure/canned hunts. I would say that they should mention what hunts are enclosure hunts. Quite honestly, untill now, I never would have thought Canada offered enclosure hunts for native game.
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moondoggieYaBB Moderator YaBB God Proud to be American... Lucky to be born Texan! Gender: Posts: 1724       Re: Keith responds to Donahue« Reply #71 on: Oct 11th, 2004, 1:46pm »    Quote Modify
Welcome cabin4 and I hope you enjoy our little piece of heaven. I totally agree with you that the outfitter should be held to the fire if he misled anyone about a particular hunt. The problem with Mr. Donohue stemmed from the fact that he began by flaming Keith Warren and demanding Keith take his side. That was simply not possible because Donohue went at a different time and Keith was not a part of his hunt. When Mr. Donohue didn't get what he wanted, he got more belligerent and demanding and instead of going after the outfitter, he chose to attack Keith... this was not tolerated and first he was asked to control his statements, then he ultimately was booted off. Keith has maintained that if there were any problems with an outfitter, then take it up with the outfitter... he makes zero, nothing, nada, zilcho from any outfitter's hunting packages. Furthermore, Keith can only report on what he sees and experiences, not what someone else sees and experiences... and that's the best any of us can do. MD
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RogerBYaBB Moderator YaBB God Mess Sergeant for the Dirty Dozen! Gender: Posts: 4196       Re: Keith responds to Donahue« Reply #72 on: Oct 11th, 2004, 4:21pm »    Quote Modify
welcome to the forum cabin4. this subject still gets a lot of attention. It reminds me a little of the two guys who bought individual cars from a dealer - one got everything the car was supposed to have on the invoice and was happy the other didn't- and griped at the dealer. The dealer can only go by what the automaker says. the buyers complaint is with the automaker not the dealer. Same thing applies here. Again, always glad to see another participating member on the forum.
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jdickeyYaBB Senior Member The only EASY day was yesterday... USN Seals Gender: Posts: 384       Re: Keith responds to Donahue« Reply #73 on: Oct 11th, 2004, 8:03pm »    Quote Modify
There is an old, old saying... even older than El Lobo... CAVEAT EMPTOR
For you boys in the oil patch, that means, check out that well's production before you buy another one in the same patch!
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cabin4YaBB Newbie Gender: Posts: 3       Re: Keith responds to Donahue« Reply #74 on: Today at 9:53am »    Quote Modify Remove
Below is a quote from Bill Donahue on his web site. "Now Keith claims that all of his hunts are done under fair chase conditions, which offered some comfort, but I only know Keith as a television personality. I wanted to confirm the hunting conditions so I called Bear Valley Outfitters directly and asked that direct question. The woman on the telephone confirmed everything that Keith had said. They had 100,000 acres of private land that we would be hunting free ranging wild game under fair chase conditions." Has this claim by Donahue ever been disputed as it relates to statements made by Keith Warren ? I was never under the impression that all of Kieth's hunting shows are done under "fair chase" conditions. To the contrary, the majority of Kieths shows that I have seen are not traditional fair chase hunts. I think anyone with hunting experiance could recognize this very easy.
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Author    Topic: Keith responds to Donahue (Read 1143 times)

RogerBYaBB Moderator YaBB God Mess Sergeant for the Dirty Dozen! Gender: Posts: 4198       Re: Keith responds to Donahue« Reply #75 on: Today at 11:50am »    Quote Modify
Cabin4 - this forum is not the place to discuss the "Donahue" issue, whether it is or is not true - and who is or is not correct regarding Keith and his previous hunts with bear valley. Take the donahue discussion off the forum. Abide by the forum rules. thank you.
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jhawkerYaBB Newbie Posts: 16       Re: Keith responds to Donahue« Reply #76 on: Today at 11:57am »    Quote Modify
Roger, Thank you! IMHO this thread should have been locked after Keith posted the first time. BTW I'm in the air headed home now only need to pray my antlers make it home by UPS. It was some grand trip.
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Forum AdminYaBB Administrator Posts: 36       Re: Keith responds to Donahue« Reply #77 on: Today at 11:59am »    Quote Modify
ya know jhawker - I agree - and tonite I think I'll remove all the followup posts to Keiths response and lock it - just don't have the time right now. Roger
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Re: Keith responds to Donahue
« Reply #78 on: Today at 1:10pm » Quote Modify Remove

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I suppose as long as I am willing to defend Keith and or bash Donahue, I'm welcome here and the forum can stay open. As soon as I list a potential issue regarding what Kieth may have said, its time to shut it down. Very alarming.

I would think that if Kieth did not say the things reported by Donahue, then Keith should say so in his post. If Keith did say these things, then he may have problem on his hands.

Its all on video tape according to Donahue. So it should be very easy to verify who said what and when. If Kieth is quoted as saying this is a "fair chase" hunt and then BVO states the same and at the same time BVO uses Kieth Warrens name in the context of an co-organized hunt (BVO & Kieth Warren), then there is a problem. This may inticate "intent of colusion" since both Kieth and BVO know for a fact that it is not fair chase.

I can't understand why the simple facts are not addressed on this issue by Kieth from his perspective. This issue does not seem to want to go away as long as these questions remain open. The internet hunting talk forums are "ablaze" with this issue regarding what Kieth and BVO said/did. Just because its shut down here, does not mean its shut down everywere else.

I wish Keith would address the claims by Donahue and be done with it, whatever the truth is. I and others will look past this if it gets resolved with the truth as the goal.

I am a long time fan of Keith and his shows. He has done alot to promote safe hunting, shooting and fishing. As a fan, I would like to see this issue go away.

Thanks

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Cabin4 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 14, 2004, 10:56:56 AM »

Well, the forum leaders at Keith Warren Outdoors pulled the plug on the forum after my last post.

I was right, they were all willing to discuss the issue as long as you defend Keith and or bash Donahue. All of a sudden, they claim its not an issue to be discussed when you ask questions concerning what Keith said !! Really, they why are they discussing it ? As I said earlier, very alarming. As if we are so stupid, we can't see the smoke screen.

I don't think I will spend much time at all on Keith Warren's forums. On another post there a guy asked for opinions on "Canned Hunts". He was going on a canned hunt and wanted to hear opinions on the concept of canned hunts. I put a post reply basically saying that to each his own and that I personally was not crazy about them. I also said , if thats what you like, go for it. It's your choice, This is America.

Well the moderator chimed in with a reply post to me and had all kinds of reasons why my opinion was wrong ! And deleted my post. I then posted asking why my post was deleted. This question was deleted and no answer given.

It seems opinions are always welcome there, as long as your opinion is in agreement with the moderator. Very strange process over there at Keith Warren outdoors forum.

Bob in TX · « **Reply #4 on:** October 15, 2004, 05:06:01 AM »

I guess I just have a problem with allowing third party attacks like this in this particular forum with the poster having no first-hand knowledge.........

Cabin4 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 15, 2004, 05:33:29 AM »

I don't understand why you refer to me as a 3rd party. A 3rd party is assumed to have no direct knowledge. In fact, anyone who watched Keiths TV show, and I do, can listen to what he says and determine if its not true based on what a hunter experiences like in this case with Donahue. Further, if Keith Warren Outdoors was not interested in so called 3rd party input or opinions from folks like me, then they should not have posted his statement on HIS open talk forum. By doing this, they are openly soliciting input !

Further:
As an example, if Keith makes the claim that a particular hunt is done under fair chaise and in turns out that film footage proofs that the hunt was conducted in a 100 acre high fence enclosure, that does not make me a 3rd party. It makes me and anyone who sees the video a witness.

This episode speaks for itself. Keith said certain things and made assersition on his TV show. We have a hunter who purchased a hunt based on those assertions made by Keith and the outfitter. It turns out, that those assersitions made on TV and by the outfitter are not true and Keith has not addressed this in his public statement. I can certainly read statements made by one person (Donahue) and compare it to statements or rebuttal made by the other party (Keith Warren) and determine if the questions and or issues are addressed or not.

The bottom line is, there is a "gap" between Keith's statement and Donahues claims. There are unanswered questions. Anyone can see that and speak to it.

Bob in TX · « **Reply #6 on:** October 16, 2004, 05:18:44 AM »

:roll:

....like I said, 3rd party. I guess I feel that this particular forum was set up for first hand reviews of outfitters posted by hunters, not by crusaders.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 16, 2004, 12:24:02 PM »

Bob,

If you want to turn a blind eye to the facts, thats your call. If you want to go on thinking that Keith Warren has no culpability or any responsibility to explain his actions and your willing to accept unanswered claims, thats your call.

As a hunter and former guide/camp owner, I am interested in outfitters and represenatives of outfitters, in this case Keith Warren, should be held to the truth standard. You can elect to be lied to if you want and maybe your okay with people in this industry lieing to the public, I'm not.

As far as this forum being only for a hunter to post his experience, I think your wrong. This is a talk forum, which means that posting reply's is not only technically allowable, GBO has no rules that I am aware of that disallow any follow up posts here. Your facts are incorrect in this regard as well. This sounds a lot like what the moderators on Keith Warren outdoors told me ! Of course, they came to this conclusion only for people who asked questions or had concerns about what Keith Warren and BVO said/did. As long as a poster was willing to stand-up for Keith and or bash Donahue, there posts were welcome. A very strange concept in a so called "talk forum". Are you a moderator or one who has posted bashing posts of Donahue or supportive posts of Keith on KWO forums ?

At this point, I am under the impression that your only objective here is to continue the smoke screen tradition from Keith Warren Outdoors forum to this one.

Bob in TX · « **Reply #8 on:** October 17, 2004, 04:47:11 AM »

Man, you sure get your panties in a wad easy. You really have your blinders on.

I don't remember saying anything about this particular situation one way or the other. I just stated my opinion about 3rd party comments in this particular forum, period.

I personally would just like to see first hand reviews of outfitters and guides in here. I think the 3rd party opinions and crusades belong in the other forums.

This is just my opinion and I am just another hunter.

Good Hunting,

Bob

cam69conv · « **Reply #9 on:** October 17, 2004, 06:01:07 AM »

Quote from: Bob in TX

I personally would just like to see first hand reviews of outfitters and guides in here. I think the 3rd party opinions and crusades belong in the other forums.

Bob,
The problem with that theory is that there are ALOT of hunters that still live in the dark ages and arent ONLINE!!!!! You HAVE to have some third party opinions on this if you want to gather as much information as you can

Bob in TX · « **Reply #10 on:** October 17, 2004, 06:20:07 AM »

Last time you two......I personally only want guide and outfitter reviews from hunters with first hand knowledge that have hunted with the guide or outfitter. This has nothing whatsoever to do with anyone being on line or not. This is just my opinion. You are certainly entitled to yours. The two of you are coming across as fanatics, IMHO.

Bye........

Cabin4 · « **Reply #11 on:** October 17, 2004, 10:22:12 AM »

Bob,

You are of course entitled to your opinion. If you want to refer to me as a 3rd party crusader, so be it. I have a differant take on the whole thing. I think hunters need to stand together when we get short changed. Thats how we can all help each other get the straight scoop on these hunts. Just as we stick together when hunting, shooting and gun ownership is under attack, I believe we should stick together when one of us is given the shaft by an outfitter. Thats how I feel, you feel differant. Thats the end of this for me.'

If you want outfitter reviews, check out the link below.
http://www.huntinfo.com/reviews/outfitter_reviews.php3

Good hunting

vernonp · « **Reply #12 on:** March 20, 2005, 04:44:35 AM »

How anyone could read this post and see the pictures and not be disgusted is beyound me. -----------I live in Kerrville, Texas and like GB said is the exotic and high fence capital of the country and I had never heard of canned hunts. I am familiar with most of the big ranches around here and all the high fence does is keep the animals inside several square miles of land. The hunting is no different from a low fence operation. Those lieing rascals should be liable for the lies and misinformation.--------If anyone wants suggestions on where to hunt around here for a good price I will give them my opinion. ---------I kept hearing about all these canned hunts and high fence operations where people was shooting tame animals and I thought they were all insane. Most of the allegations seemed to be pointing at Texas and I know it does not take place on the ranches I am familiar with. I can not beleive I was this naive and uninformed on the subject.-----------The Rio Bonito Ranch is one I highly reccomend. It is located off of I-10 between Kerrville and Junction. It is 25 square miles without a high fence and is first class all the way.---------Just click on Rio Bonito Ranch and check out.----------Regards--vernonp