Author Topic: non Alaska hunters - please know the regulations  (Read 2184 times)

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Offline Dand

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non Alaska hunters - please know the regulations
« on: October 02, 2004, 09:07:19 AM »
I was just reading this week's Bristol Bay Times, cops and court section.  Its clear a lot of non-resident hunters don't know the regulations and its costing them big time.  No doubt some violations are not intentional but hunters need to know and follow the regulations.

We welcome legal hunters - please take lots of time to learn the regulations - they can be pretty confusing but that's no excuse in front of the judge

Keep in mind moose and caribou are far bigger than the average deer and the ground is much tougher walking.  Don't go hunting where you can't carry out the meat. That's probably the main reason I didn't get a moose this year.

Hunters may not recover the antlers before they recover the meat - this is to stop the waste of meat by hunters claiming bears got the meat before they recovered it.  Head hunting is not liked by locals AT ALL.


Waste of game meat (failure to recover for human use) is abhorrent by local standards and constitutes a serious regulatory violation.
Boning is prohibited because it has been found to encourage waste of meat and make it hard to assure all meat has been recovered.

There are regulations on the minimum antler size for moose too. It can be hard to judge but hunters need to be sure before they shoot.

In this week's issue of our paper there are 19 people who were cited and/ or fined for hunting violations.  Only two were from Anchorage - the rest from lower 48 and Denmark (2).

2 guys got cited (no judgement yet) and 2 got and fined $1,500 to $3,250 for unlawful removal of antlers.

 11 hunters were fined $500 to $ 2,833 for failure to salvage or illegally boning out meat - average fine was $1,500.  

One hunter was fined $500 for taking undersize moose and one for taking over the limit of caribou (no judgement yet).

The State troopers use a tiny helicopter to go right to the kill site and they will make you retrace your steps.  So don't think you can fool them.

.
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Offline Daveinthebush

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Great post Dand
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2004, 10:05:00 AM »
Great post Dand!  Yes you is absolutly correct!

Our laws are tough enough for even Alaskans to understand sometimes and outsiders really need to read all the regulations and clearly understand Alaska before making a decision to harvest an animal.

Our terrain is not what your going to find anywhere in the lower 48, only Canada.  Many of us even up here pass on game because we know the work involved in processing the animal and the physical labor in hauling it out.  A friend of mine recently passed on a 60+ moose because it would have been a 7 mile round trip to his vehicle.  The troopers do not accept an answer like: "Well it was more work than I thought."

I have been keeping track also and many that I see are: 1. Undersized antlers on moose.  2.  Failure to retrieve all the meat before the antlers. and 3.  Failure to harvest all meat.

Alaskan troopers have an uncanny ability to be at your vehicle the moment you walk out after a four day backpack hunt.  I don't know how they do it but they do.

So guys please be careful and don't be afraid to ask questions on the forum.  A few cents of internet time could save you thousands of dollars.
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Offline Matt in AK

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...and...
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2004, 03:17:43 PM »
...and if you do make a mistake, own up to it...quickly...before they catch you.  It'll be far cheaper in the long run and you can sleep at night.  Plus, it will almost certainly leave you in possession of your rifle, ATV, plane, boat, etc...
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Offline Dand

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Matt is right
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2004, 02:36:16 PM »
Matt is right.  The Wildlife enforecement officers and the courts are usually a lot nicer to hunters who make a mistake and make quick contact with them to get it squared away.  

I susupect the comparatively light fine for the undersize moose was a result of a hunter self reporting his mistake.  Try to hide something and they really jump in your chili.

Non-resident  moose hunters in Game Unit 17 are required to watch a moose hunting orientation video or two before getting their tags.  Hence a hunter is still likely to be viewed as liable for shooting an undersize moose - since each one has received some instruction.
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Offline Sourdough

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non Alaska hunters - please know the regula
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2004, 07:03:07 PM »
Several years ago after legally taking a Caribou, we had to cross an area that was drawing for Caribou.  We did not have drawing permits.  When we got to the highway the troopers were sitting there and asked to see our drawing permits.  I explained we had shot the Caribou across the river.  Their response was "OK Show us the gut pile".  It was a five hour ride on a 4-wheeler to get there, but I took them right back there and showed it to them.  They apoligezed for my inconvience, I told them I understood they were doing their jobs and I agreed with that.  But they did arrest the guy that shot a Grizzly off one of the gut piles, He did not have a Grizzly tag.  He never dreamed the Troopers would show up before he could go back to the hifhway and get a tag.
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Offline snowdog

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non Alaska hunters - please know the regula
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2004, 04:23:34 AM »
I would love the opportunity to  hunt Alaska some day.  It would without
 doubt be my dream hunt.   BUT.... Alaska isn't alone in problems with
 people violating the law.  Here in Washington  with a much larger population
  someone from  Alaska would be wide-eyed at the amount of violations
 concerning fish and game from both residents and non- residents.  It
 goes on in all the states.   costing more  $ and game than Alaska has
  to deal with.  Not many  people travel up to Alaska to violate the  hunting
 and fishing laws,  as do here or in Michigan,  where thousands  of people
 from 5 different states converge to spend a week hunting.
30-30....45/70...... does anything else matter?

Offline xnmr53

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non Alaska hunters - please know the regula
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2004, 10:30:06 PM »
Snowdog wrote:
Quote
BUT.... Alaska isn't alone in problems with
people violating the law. Here in Washington with a much larger population
someone from Alaska would be wide-eyed at the amount of violations
concerning fish and game from both residents and non- residents. It
goes on in all the states.

 
Back in the mid 70's, New Mexico Fish & Game hired an individual to poach deer, carefully documenting when and where he did it, the locations of the gut piles, etc. They then compared his record to the various reports and determined what percentage of his activities were discovered. By applying this percentage to their overall reports, they conservatively estimated that the game taken by poaching exceeded the legal take by a considerable margin.
 
It certainly turns game management into a less than exact science.

Offline glock29

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what a HUGE load of BUNK
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2004, 07:35:07 AM »
Where I come from, when you tag an animal it is YOURS to do with as YOU please (including leaving the kill minus antlers/head for the predators if that is YOUR choice.). Once I tag it it SHOULD be mine to do with as I please, PERIOD. It is called hunting, not butchering, carving, conserving, or any other term the stinkin' wardens dream up. For this reason I will NEVER hunt in any state that does not allow me to do with the game whatever I please (other than sell it commercially). I personally would only hunt when I or others will consume the meat, but who am I or who is any other group to pass their sense of morality/hunting ethics on any other ?
The license fee paid should entitle the holder to as they darned well please with the downed animal. (not to mention the fees for hunting in Ak are pretty high, to boot)
Just another example of useless regulations/laws that erodes a person's own INDIVIDUAL freedoms !
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Offline Thomas Krupinski

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Re: what a HUGE load of BUNK
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2004, 07:44:04 AM »
Quote from: glock29
Where I come from, when you tag an animal it is YOURS to do with as YOU please (including leaving the kill minus antlers/head for the predators if that is YOUR choice.). Once I tag it it SHOULD be mine to do with as I please, PERIOD. It is called hunting, not butchering, carving, conserving, or any other term the stinkin' wardens dream up. For this reason I will NEVER hunt in any state that does not allow me to do with the game whatever I please (other than sell it commercially). I personally would only hunt when I or others will consume the meat, but who am I or who is any other group to pass their sense of morality/hunting ethics on any other ?
The license fee paid should entitle the holder to as they darned well please with the downed animal. (not to mention the fees for hunting in Ak are pretty high, to boot)
Just another example of useless regulations/laws that erodes a person's own INDIVIDUAL freedoms !


I guess you won't be hunting in Arizona either.  We have requlations that you are required to pack out all the meat that's fit to eat.  We also have an abundance of out of state elk hunters and one less won't make the residents any less saddened.

Offline glock29

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non Alaska hunters - please know the regula
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2004, 07:50:08 AM »
I personally would take out all the meat, however I do not see this as something that should be FORCED onto anyone else.
I think laws that restrict personal INDIVIDUAL freedoms SUCK !
Go MAGNUM/MAX LOAD or GO HOME !    
Always use MUCH more gun than the minimum required to do the job.
Recoil is your FRIEND...It lets you know you are using something WORTHWHILE !

Offline Daveinthebush

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Reasoning
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2004, 07:59:00 AM »
The reasoning behind the law is not to reduce individual freedoms but to prevent the waste of animals for the sake of antlers and trophys.  Alaska DOES NOT have the abundance of animals that everyone thinks it does.  Many villagers are living below the poverty level and for others to come in, shoot an animal and leave the meat is just plain wrong.

If you don't want the meat, the department of F&G and guides are more than happy to direct you to people that do need the meat.  This is not the lower 48 where you can drive to a store in ten minutes.  A trip to Fairbanks from Nulato costs $350 or more.  Mailing meat is not even a choice.
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Offline Thomas Krupinski

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non Alaska hunters - please know the regula
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2004, 08:08:06 AM »
Quote from: glock29
I personally would take out all the meat, however I do not see this as something that should be FORCED onto anyone else.
I think laws that restrict personal INDIVIDUAL freedoms SUCK !


Most folks say they will pack out all the meat, but attitudes can change easily on the 4th or 5th trip out.  We consider our big game resources something precious and not to be wasted.  Resident hunters here will easily turn in anyone who leaves eatable meat in the field.

Your personal freedoms end where those of other's begin.  You also don't have the freedom here to litter, leave fires burning, drive drunk and a whole bunch of other things that the people who live here find objectionable, not that I would think you would engage in any of those behaviors.  We favor our personal freedoms here and because we don't have an unlimited supply of game, rationing is necessary.

Offline glock29

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« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2004, 03:13:49 AM »
Thomas Krupinski wrote:

Quote
"Your personal freedoms end where those of other's begin. You also don't have the freedom here to litter, leave fires burning, drive drunk and a whole bunch of other things that the people who live here find objectionable, not that I would think you would engage in any of those behaviors. We favor our personal freedoms here and because we don't have an unlimited supply of game, rationing is necessary"


Per the LAW I cannot do that, but I think this is a bunch of CRAPOLA too.
As long as I harm no other person, I should be able to do anything I want.
I call it FREEDOM.
Quite frankly I could care less what others may find "objectionable" as long as my actions cause no other to suffer any imminent harm !
Go MAGNUM/MAX LOAD or GO HOME !    
Always use MUCH more gun than the minimum required to do the job.
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Offline wipartimer

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non Alaska hunters - please know the regula
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2004, 04:04:50 PM »
Quote
As long as I harm no other person, I should be able to do anything I want.
 So, the he%% with the environment, the land the animals or anything else, as long as you don't directly hurt someone, is that your philosophy? I found a large-bodied buck laying on the edge of my pond last winter. the POACHER (not hunter) cut off the antlers and left the rest to rot in my pond. Didn't hurt me at all I guess, but If I ever find out who did it, it WILL hurt them.  :evil:
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Offline Dand

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Your flag says enough to many of us Glock.
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2004, 10:46:41 PM »
Well some of us are glad you don't plan to visit AK.  
As a kid I remember some guides and or hunters getting caught shooting several animals then taking the biggest trophy and not claiming the rest.  It still happens once in a while. Part of this regulation is to make sure hunters only take the bag limit by making a hunter account for the whole animal (s).  In addition, it enforces what the general population of AK believes to be appropriate ethics of hunting - the general citizen has a LOT of say in making Alaska's fishing and hunting regulations.  It is also designed to give another measure of protection to big game.  A lot more big moose would be shot in remote spots where its nearly impossible to get the meat out. These remote animals serve to some extent as a reproductive reservoir for the more heavily hunted areas and help sustain the populations.  Hunting would be even more restricted if those animals were thinned out.  Abuse of fish and game populations (and "regulation" from DC) were one of the driving forces behind Alaska becoming a state and a lot of us still remember that issue.
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Offline Mac11700

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« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2004, 07:32:52 AM »
Quote
Per the LAW I cannot do that, but I think this is a bunch of CRAPOLA too.
As long as I harm no other person, I should be able to do anything I want.
I call it FREEDOM.
Quite frankly I could care less what others may find "objectionable" as long as my actions cause no other to suffer any imminent harm !



Sorry bud...but your attitude is the exact reason it's getting harder and harder to find any quality places to hunt anymore...anytime a person feels he is above the law or the laws don't and Shouldn't interfere with his hunt...they are making someone elses hunt harder in one way or another...by  having all the different conservation departments add more stringent laws...or having landowners close their lands to individuals to hunt...

Most game laws are put in place to protect the animals from poaching and indiscrimint killings...and most law abiding hunters don't have a problem with them...the ones that do...seem to cause the most problems for the rest of us...no matter what state we live in...


Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline Matt in AK

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Laws for the ethically challenged
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2004, 10:47:36 AM »
Seems like just maybe a lot of laws are in place so the ethically challenged will have a crude guide book.  If ya can't tell right from wrong, perhaps the law has to step in and help ya out.
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Offline victorcharlie

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non Alaska hunters - please know the regula
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2004, 03:06:38 PM »
How do they enforce this law?  For example, someone shoots an animal, and no one see's him do it.  Maybe with the snow and foot prints?  Sounds like a good law, but seems hard to enforce at least in the lower 48.

So if a fellow packs out the best cuts and after 4 or 5 trips can't take the rest for what ever reason, he's a poacher?

I don't mean to argue, but I only like certain cuts of a domestic cow.  Same with a deer.  I've read magazines that shame a fellow if he doesn't eat the toenails.  Who decides what's edible and what's not?  So I would be considered a bad hunter because I didn't pack out the ribs because I didn't consider them edible?

I haven't read the law, never hunted in Alaska, but am trying to understand it.  

As I'm not a resident, it's none of my business.  If the locals are happy with it, I'm all for it.

One thing for sure, if I ever do get the opportunity to hunt the great state of Alaska, I sure hope there will still be game to hunt.  I'm sure the intent of the law is honorable.  How practical it is...that's another question.
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Offline Daveinthebush

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F&G
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2004, 05:08:00 PM »
If you harvest an animal and F&G checks you for any reason and they don't think you took all the harvestable meat they will return to the kill site and check it.  If they can remove a certain amount of meat, your going to get a ticket for wanton waste.  

I was fortunate once where two federal officers caught me with 2 caribou in my dog sled.  I was all done and packed up.  They made me remove some more of the neck meat and took pictures of the kill site.  I had not placed my new license in my pack but had my old one.  So they took all of my personal information too.  Never heard back form them.  

A friend in town killed a caribou in rifle zone that is 5 miles off of a road.  When he got home, the troopers took a DNA sample of the antlers because the found a caribou kill less than the five mile limit.  You can bet you life that if the DNA matched they'd prosecute him.

I don't always agree with F&G.  But this forum is a good way for you guys in the lower 48 to learn the rules up here before your dream hunt turns into a nightmare.
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Offline Redhawk1

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non Alaska hunters - please know the regula
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2004, 05:27:52 PM »
The laws are there for a reason. I went on a Caribou hunt in Alaska this year and was successful. I had no problem following the rules. I donated my Caribou to the locals in Bettles.

glock29, you call yourself a hunter, I beg to differ with you. The meaning of a hunter is a provider, not a a person the wastes our resources. If you can't follow the rules, stay out of the woods.
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Offline Dusty Miller

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« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2004, 09:35:27 PM »
It seems to me like you'd do well to arrange to have some locals haul out the meat and keep it if all you want is the trophy head.  Does anybody there do that sort of thing?
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Offline victorcharlie

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« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2004, 03:56:26 AM »
It seems to me that a slick New York Lawyer...(or a Miami lawyer for you Zachery).....would have no problem defeating this......is the fine such that it's cheaper to pay it?

Never mind, fines are listed in the post......yep...cheaper to pay.....you are correct, a guide that knows the rules and regulations would probably be about the same price a paying the fines.

Could a poor ole dumb redneck county boy get away with pleading ignorance?
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Offline Daveinthebush

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« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2004, 05:21:02 AM »
Could a poor ole dumb redneck county boy get away with pleading ignorance?
Quote


Nope, tried it! Cost $110 to try.
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Offline glock29

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« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2004, 05:38:42 AM »
wipartimer wrote:
"So, the he%% with the environment, the land the animals or anything else, as long as you don't directly hurt someone, is that your philosophy?"

You DARN BETCHA that is my philosophy !!!!
If it is my land I should be able to do how I damned well please with it, INCLUDING RUIN IT if I so choose ! CAVEAT EMPTOR !!!!

I'm sure you would absolutely hate the environmental laws here in Michigan in regards to autos !
THERE ARE NO STATE LAWS IN MICHIGAN regarding auto emissions !
NO environmental auto testing either (and thats the way it SHOULD be)
For non-commercial use we also have NO safety inspections too (once again as it SHOULD be)
Basically in Mi, when it comes to autos, if it ain't dropping parts all over the road (literally), it has four wheels & a motor YOU CAN DRIVE IT !

In Michigan we have a "Kill Tag" that accompanies big-game hunting licenses. That is EXACTLY what it is...it entitles the hunter to KILL an animal and do with it as he/she darned pleases (not somebody else forcing THEIR ethics (not laws) down their throats)  !

I like MOST of the laws up here....they encourage people to BUTT OUT and MIND THEIR OWN STINKIN' BUSINESS !!!!
Go MAGNUM/MAX LOAD or GO HOME !    
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Offline Dand

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« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2004, 09:53:06 PM »
Yes it is wise and can be arranged for locals to receive the meat ahead of time.  A lot of the more reputable guides and air taxis do this.  Here in Dillingham some air taxis and guides take meat to the local food bank, and the food bank has set up a freezer van to hold the meat.  Other air taxis maintain a list that locals can ask to be on - when unwanted meat comes in, the air taxi calls folks on the list.

Ignorance of the law is NO excuse in Alaska.

Glock will love this regulation even better: parts of AK, including my area around Dillingham REQUIRE non- resident hunters to view a moose hunting and moose butchering video before they will be issued harvest tags.  Videos include the meat salvage regulations.  The local biologist has has a lot of hunters tell him later that they actually benefitted a lot from the video and would have been in a mess without it.  Muskox hunting regulations have a similar orientation requirement.

Victorcharlie - some of the folks paying these fines are lawyers and doctors who used to think they were pretty slick. Airplanes and boats have been confiscated in some cases - nothing like losing a $60,000 -$150,000 airplane in the middle of hunting season to get some attention.  It encourages the guides and air taxis to comply and to actually act as assistants to the enforecement officers.  If an air taxi operator suspects they have some clients acting illegally, they often report the concern on their way to town and the troopers often greet the hunters at the landing site.  They may be required to report - can't recall.  All those pilots in the air see a lot and aren't easily fooled by some lame story.
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Offline Redhawk1

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« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2004, 02:34:47 AM »
Quote from: Dusty Miller
It seems to me like you'd do well to arrange to have some locals haul out the meat and keep it if all you want is the trophy head.  Does anybody there do that sort of thing?


Dusty Miller. I went out on a self guided hunt, we were dropped off and had to do our own butchering and hauling. When the plain came to get us "We" hauled our meat, hide and horns to the plain and then off again. We donated the meat to people that use the meat to sustain themselves through the winter. They will not come out on a drop hunt and get the meat, the plain ride costs over $1700 to and from the drop sight.  So we have to do all the work, but I think it is well worth it. :D
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Offline Alaskan

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« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2004, 07:12:27 PM »
" Its better to remain silent and thought a fool, then to speak up and remove all doubt "


ya....we sure hope you won't be coming to Alaska to hunt as F&G would have you in cuffs for something and then we'd be supporting a fool like you...

Iam one alaskan thats really glad you're stuck in chithole Michigan...

Offline Redhawk1

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non Alaska hunters - please know the regula
« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2004, 02:20:09 AM »
glock29, If all you have to offer is a bunch of BS. I suggest you take it some where else. In my opinion your unethical ways of thinking are uncalled for and unwelcome.  :noway:
If  you're going to make a hole, make it a big one.
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Offline glock29

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non Alaska hunters - please know the regula
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2004, 04:23:49 AM »
redhawk1:

Who are you to tell me what my ethics should/should not be and what I should think is unethical ?

I think you probably are guilty of what many other sportsmen are....trying to impose your personal code of ethics on others.

Ethics/Morals are NOT laws, they are personal choices; what one considers ethical, many others do not, so they choose not to engage in activity they see as unethical.

I have a MAJOR problem when some governmental group decides to pose their code of ethics on me in a form of laws. I have one thing to say to legislators that think they need to impose thir condecending moral/ethical code upon me...Mind your own STINKIN' BIZZNESS ! You do as you please & I'll do the same. You don't like what I'm doing ? Then stay away from me & don't do the activity you find objectionable !

Alaskan:

I think I will stay here in Michigan where I can make my own decisions regarding hunting ethics without some damned game warden imposing their will upon me.
Chithole ?
I define a chithole as somewhere you have to pay $1700 just to haul meat that one does not even want to DONATE it to the native population.
I hope the Bush Admin succeds in allowing Exxon to put oil rigs all over your landscape !
Go MAGNUM/MAX LOAD or GO HOME !    
Always use MUCH more gun than the minimum required to do the job.
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Offline akpls

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non Alaska hunters - please know the regula
« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2004, 05:27:10 AM »
Quote from: glock29
......I have one thing to say to.... blah, blah, blah
Quote


Hey, how about we start a collection to buy a one way ticket to Amchitka, Kiska or some other similar exotic AK locale for him.  He should able to do as he likes out there!  Oops, maybe not - that's probably in the AK Maritime NWR.  He might just have to settle for Nuiqsut or Barter Island or .........?