Author Topic: Black Mag 3 Powder (Read 5519 times)

smike308 · « **Reply #30 on:** December 21, 2004, 05:44:13 PM »

Danno--
I see you are from Walker. Take a couple hour drive to Cabela's at Prairie Du Chien to pick up some BM3. They had a whole shelf of it Sunday. I picked up a # to give to my son as a Christmas present. Cabela's is always worth a trip for the fun of it.
Mike

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #31 on:** December 21, 2004, 08:02:42 PM »

You are correct on the reason people are not asking for it. If anyone shoots this stuff you will be asking for it a lot. I am completely sold on the powder. I shot my elk this year with a 90gr. BM3 charge under a 300gr. SST bullet in Harvester sabot and the shot went completely through the chest cavity of a 475lb. cow elk. Shot was at about 90 yards and slightly angled as I got part of the liver and one lung. Had to do a second shot which I followed up with a 295gr. Powerbelt aerotip and it also went completely through chest cavity of running elk. Four holes that big made the chase rather short. If I had placed my first shot a little better it would have been over in one. The shot was in heavy brush and I almost passed up trying to do it. Fouling is almost non-existent, clean-up is real easy, recoil is a lot more manageable than 777. I have not heard of the clumping and would have to see it to believe it. Everyone else that has tried this powder is sold like me. I will never shoot 777 again. I will give any I have to anyone that comes by.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #32 on:** December 22, 2004, 12:20:13 AM »

Keith Lewis, you keep getting my interest. I am going to have to try it. When I see some I will pick it up to give it a try.

SAW · « **Reply #33 on:** December 22, 2004, 01:12:32 AM »

Well Keith you sold me. My Buddy and I make an annual pilgrimage to cableas in PDC, WI every year. I will buy some and try it. Keith I see you shoot an omega. I shoot an omega with Shockwaves what load did you get your best accuracy with?
Thanks

SAW

elmerdeer · « **Reply #34 on:** December 22, 2004, 01:25:34 AM »

When will they make it into pellets does anyone know? I just don't like any powder I prefer pellets.

Critter · « **Reply #35 on:** December 22, 2004, 01:53:16 AM »

I doubt they will ever make it into pellets. Hodgdon will make sure of that. They put CleanShot out of business over the whole pellet issue, thats why we have American Pioneer Powder with their Sticks.

TooTall · « **Reply #36 on:** December 22, 2004, 02:06:12 PM »

The other forums are doing their best to badmouth BlackMag3 saying it ends up in a big clump in the jug. I guess I will squander some money to find out. If something kicks less than 777 and burns as clean or cleaner and makes consistantly as much velocity I'll give it a go and decide for myself.

str8shooter48 · « **Reply #37 on:** December 22, 2004, 02:46:50 PM »

Quote from: TooTall

The other forums are doing their best to badmouth BlackMag3 saying it ends up in a big clump in the jug. I guess I will squander some money to find out. If something kicks less than 777 and burns as clean or cleaner and makes consistantly as much velocity I'll give it a go and decide for myself.

Too Tall I have to agree with you. I want to make my own call on BM3. I Listen to all the Clean Shot and American Pioneer bashers on these forum, which led me to try 777. Well I don.t see 777 to be the dream powder that everyone praises. Don't get me wrong it shot pretty good but a lot of hassles to deal with, crud rings, frozen breech plugs. I went back to American Pioneer, seems to work fine in my guns. I'm always up to trying new stuff. I only wish BM3 was available in my area. I don't mind the extra cost of the powder through a catalog but I refuse to pay that lousy hazardous material fee.

Busta · « **Reply #38 on:** December 22, 2004, 04:16:17 PM »

I purchased a jug of Black mag'3 a few weeks ago, all the powder is free flowing and has no chunks at all. The powder meters well out of a powder measure. If there was any concern at all, it would be that it is very fine granules and almost dusty. I think if you were to take 100 grains by volume and weigh it to see what the weight equivalent is, you might get a little better consistency for target shooting.

I have been shooting 777 (loose) since it came out a few years ago and like it very much for it's consistency and power, but don't like the crud ring and sticky plugs. I have found out that BM'3 is every bit as powerful as 777, I have not experienced quite as good of accuracy or consistency however. It does ignite very fast like Holy Black but the fouling is minimal and clean up is a snap. You can load a 200gr Shockwave (SST) without swabbing after 1st shot, not always the case with 777. The greased plug comes out with only fingers on the wrench shooting BM'3. Big plus.

I just took 2 deer during our muzzleloader season using a 200gr Shockwave (SST) over 100gr BM'3 by volume. The first was 110 yards, shot through the front shoulder on the hard knuckle passing through the far shoulder coming to rest under the hide. The little bullet retained 65% or 130gr of it's original weight. The deer traveled about 50 yards and was done. The second was at 60 yards, shot right behind the front shoulder passing through the heart and out the other side. The blood trail was unbelievable, the deer traveled about 50 yards and give up the ghost.

As you may be able to tell, I am very happy with Black Mag'3 powder. Now for the best part, cleanup. The greased breech plug removes with fingers on the wrench, no more teflon tape or anti-seize compounds. Hot water with a few drops of Dawn dishwashing liquid and it's over before you know it. Very easy clean up. :grin:

I have only tested this powder with saboted bullets and one PowerBelt. I will be running it through the paces with conicals and other bullets when the weather gets better (4 or 5 months) up here.

I truly believe that if people are finding the powder with chunks in it, they are getting old stock that has sit around for awhile. The place I bought mine just started stocking it and there is no clumps in mine. If you find some I suggest you lightly squeeze the sides of the jug to see if it is indeed one big clump as some claim. Good Shooting.

chuck bianchi · « **Reply #39 on:** December 23, 2004, 04:32:06 AM »

blackmag3 no crud ring. no swabbing between shots. less powder same velocity. easy clean up. just expensive. I gave away everything else.

flyer05 · « **Reply #40 on:** December 23, 2004, 01:36:53 PM »

Well, I can add my thunbs up for Black Mag 3. Shoots great for me. 95 grn under a 348 powerbelt and it hit where I want it to. Quick cleanup and good to go. Now that is out of my older Black Diamond so I will see how it does on the encore.

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #41 on:** December 24, 2004, 09:26:24 PM »

OK I will try to answer the last two posts. First the chance that Black Mag3 will be in pellets soon is not very likely. Personally I don't like pellets anyway due to being able to vary loose powder to what load works best and I find with speed loaders the powder loads just as quick as pellets. Next: accurate loads. I shot my best group with a 300gr. cast semi-wadcutter bullet copper coated in a Harvester sabot. 100yard three shot group less than one inch center to center. I did not have a lot of time to develop loads before my hunt so I shot some 300gr. Hornady SST bullets in Harvester sabots (Hornady sabots load too hard in my rifle). That load was almost as good as the cast bullets and probably the difference was me on that day. I also got decent results with 295gr. Powerbelt aerotip and the point of impact at 100 yards was within less than an inch from the Hornady bullets (about 1/4 to 1/2 inch lower). Both of these bullets were good enough for my hunt and they both performed on the hunt. SST was my first shot which I should have waited for a better angle but didn't so I had to shoot the second which was the powerbelt as it loads easier and it shot well enough to finish the elk on a 100 yard running shot. With 90gr. of Black Mag3 both of these bullets made complete pass-through the chest cavity. I intend to do some more development with this powder after the holidays when I get some time. If anything important comes up I will post.

snicker · « **Reply #42 on:** December 27, 2004, 05:14:32 AM »

Before the muzzle loader season I decided to try the Black Mag 3 powder because I was not real happy with the Pryrodex, shot good but clean up was terrible. I tried the 777 and find that it, IMO, that it does not clean up like the ads say and it kicks harder even with reduced loads. I finally came across the Black Mag 3 powder and was able to get a pound from Midsouth Shooters Supply, I don't live too far from them so it wasn't any problem driving up to pick it up and save the hazmat fee. I took my Huntsman out to the range just to see what it would do. Got to say that it is as advertised. I was using 80 grains and a T/C 240 grain sabot. With the scope lined up I can put 5 shots touching 1 1/2 inch high at 50 yards. I don't shoot any farther than 75 or 80 yards. Clean up was a breeze. One damp patch and one dry after each shot and it was clean. The first patch comes out with a little creamy gray residue and after that it's pretty well clean. Figured 80 grains was enough for the hunting I do so I didn't try any stiffer charges. Two days into the season I shot a spike buck at 45 yards. Got a lower neck shot. Deer went down at the spot. Shot all the way through with a nice exit hole. I always swab after each shot so I can not confirm easy loading on the second shot in a dirty barrel. Needless to say I am really happy with the Black Mag 3 powder and will continue to use it. It is a little more expensive than Pyrodex and 777 but with the easy cleaning I think it's worth it. The powder itself is a grayish white and real fine, about like FFF so it should last a little longer. They advertise it to be noncorrosive and if thats the case that would be great. This is just my opinion of this powder and believe that if everyone would ask local gun shops for it, it would probably be more available.

Birddog1 · « **Reply #43 on:** December 27, 2004, 12:50:39 PM »

Keith,
Maybe you can help me out or at least give me some idea on the BM3. I bought a pound the other day at Cabelas based on the reviews its getting here. I took my Encore out yesterday to give it a try. I was using 295 grain powerbelts, 260 grain precision rifle sablts and 250 grain T/C shock waves. Now I only tried 100 grains of the BlackMag, but I was a very disappointed in the accuracy, but the cleanup was a breeze.

I was all over the target, both at 50 yards and 100 yards. I was swabbing between each shot which I guess I shouldn't have done, but I was wondering if you would have any other suggestions other than varying the amount of the charge. I get exceptional accuracy out of American Pioneer FFG using all of the above bullets with the 260 grain precision sabots being the best. Let me know if you have any suggestions.

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #44 on:** December 27, 2004, 05:11:20 PM »

Quote from: Birddog1

Keith,
Maybe you can help me out or at least give me some idea on the BM3. I bought a pound the other day at Cabelas based on the reviews its getting here. I took my Encore out yesterday to give it a try. I was using 295 grain powerbelts, 260 grain precision rifle sablts and 250 grain T/C shock waves. Now I only tried 100 grains of the BlackMag, but I was a very disappointed in the accuracy, but the cleanup was a breeze.

I was all over the target, both at 50 yards and 100 yards. I was swabbing between each shot which I guess I shouldn't have done, but I was wondering if you would have any other suggestions other than varying the amount of the charge. I get exceptional accuracy out of American Pioneer FFG using all of the above bullets with the 260 grain precision sabots being the best. Let me know if you have any suggestions.

I would try to shoot without the swab between shots. It was recommeded to me by the BM3 guys to shoot without the swab between. It is the only way I have tried and I get close to MOA at 100 yards with 300gr. bullets in Harvester sabots out of my stainless Omega. I have not shot a lot through my rifle but due to all the problems I had loading sabots I did run a 200 pass polishing with JB bore paste on a patch over a brass brush before I got the BM3 so I know I was shooting a clean barrel without any plastic residue. I have measured my charges with a volume measure and then took the average weight of several volume measures and weighed all the charges I used to shoot for serious. Black Mag3 is pretty fine and the possiblility that a volume measure could vary seemed likely to me so I weighed my charges. You might consider that if all else fails. Most of the reports I have received have been more positive and I would like to find out what is causing your accuracy difficulty. PS: I just thought if you are shooting 100gr. under the Powerbelts it might be too hot for them. I get 2000fps from 100gr. BM3 under a 300gr. bullet. I am also using the .25ACP primer conversion with Winchester small rifle primers.

Birddog1 · « **Reply #45 on:** December 28, 2004, 03:12:27 AM »

Thanks Keith,

I'll give it a whirl once our blackpowder season ends on Thursday. I'll be ordering the 25 ACP conversion then along with more of the Precsion Rifle Dead Center sabots.

Scott

Stan M. · « **Reply #46 on:** January 30, 2005, 06:41:48 AM »

Well things might be changing for the better for Black Mag 3. I received the Midsouth 2005 catalog and the single BM3 section is bigger than the whole Pyrodex section combined. By the way there is a lot of new items out. In Cabelas 2005 Shooting catalog BM3 is the first powder listed. So the BM3 marketing people appear to be spending spending some money.
I spoke with a local gun dealer and asked him about BM3 and he hadn't heard of it. Did get his attention when I told him what I had read. He shoots an Encore as well. He might know all about a crud ring. He did give me the same reply a lot of the others have gotten,"I sell a lot of 777". Well it was ironic I looked at the BM3 web site and his company's big store in the big city is listed as a dealer. I will see if I can get a jug sent over from the other store. Funny how he hadn't gotten the word. The are the best of around for reloading powders, I may be in luck.
Once I try it and I pass it along to my friends, he will start selling more. It is hard to beat word of mouth. People are still catching on to 777. I remember and it wasn't long ago, I had bought 777 from him before Wally World had it and most shooters knew about it. Give BM3 some time it will catch on if it as good as it appears to be. Rome wasn't built in one day.
I will try it, though I do like Hodgdon products, I will buy another product if it is better. No endorsements here.
Stan

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #47 on:** January 30, 2005, 03:22:28 PM »

I have had a couple of people ask for copies of this report. If you set your printer on landscape and print pages 9,10 and 11 you will have the full report. Hope it helps; as I burned a fair amount of paper figuring out how to just get the report and not all the posts. What I am refering to is the test comparison of BM3, APP and 777 that I ran.

Stan M. · « **Reply #48 on:** February 03, 2005, 08:20:57 AM »

Well I may have to change my opinion on the post above. While the BM3 advertising group may be gettiing the word out there is little to be said for the MSRP. I have found BM3 at two of the local gun shops and my dealer got me two jugs from the other store. When he told me the price my jaw dropped. They have it priced at $32.00 and some change, plus tax. :shock: I called another store, on the other side of the county and it is $31.** plus tax. At this retail price the good ol' boys are simply going to pick up 777 or Pyrodex. These products are at Wally World for just under $20.00 and after the season you can scarf it up cheap.
I do not see it catching on.
As for me I will give it a try and see how it performs. I might get a better price since I recently bought a gun from him. I will mention the cheaper catalog prices as well. If I truly like it, I will mail order it bulk with some other reloading powders I have been wanting to get.
For the prices I've been quoted I could have ordered two jugs from Midsouth and paid the $20.00 hazmat fee, plus shipping, and it would have been about the same, all from the comfort of home.
If I can get a number of shots off accurately without having to clean between shots, then I can save a lot of time developing loads in my new Encore. A pound does last me a while. But for the average Joe to go out and fire a couple of rounds to check zero before hunting season and hunt two weeks of the muzzleloader season, I simply don't see it.
Just my two pennies,
Stan

newhunter1 · « **Reply #49 on:** February 03, 2005, 04:42:52 PM »

As a bowhunter I learned that if you go cheap you only cheat yourself. So far I'm new to this sport, BUT what I have learned from bowhunting is this. You get what you pay for. I am looking for the ultimate powder in that I want power, velocity, accuracy, and ease of cleaning. I don't see myself going and shooting 3+ pounds a year. A pound or two, but I want the best for my experience. I am one of the guys willing to pay the money for this stuff. Not criticizing you but there are people out there willing to pay a little more--although not nearly as many as the "good ole' boys."

Paul

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #50 on:** February 03, 2005, 05:54:10 PM »

Newhunter1: Black Mag'3 and you are made for each other. You forgot to add in less perceived recoil for the same or higher velocity compared with Triple Seven. I love the stuff and I think you will also.

simonkenton · « **Reply #51 on:** February 03, 2005, 11:39:07 PM »

I am gonna buy a pound of BlackMag3, for $48. That's right, $28 on the powder and $20 on the hazmat fee, from Cabelas.
I am going by Bass Pro Shop in a week, hopefully they have started carrying it, if not, it will be the $48 pound.
If it works as well for me as it does for Keith Lewis it will be worth it.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #52 on:** February 04, 2005, 01:25:32 AM »

Quote from: newhunter1

As a bowhunter I learned that if you go cheap you only cheat yourself. So far I'm new to this sport, BUT what I have learned from bowhunting is this. You get what you pay for. I am looking for the ultimate powder in that I want power, velocity, accuracy, and ease of cleaning. I don't see myself going and shooting 3+ pounds a year. A pound or two, but I want the best for my experience. I am one of the guys willing to pay the money for this stuff. Not criticizing you but there are people out there willing to pay a little more--although not nearly as many as the "good ole' boys."

Paul

I can afford it without a problem, but I have used triple7 sense it came out and I have great success with it. Why change just because one guy speaks so highly of BlackMag3. Nothing to do with the "good ole' boys." I shoot what works for me! Being new to this you might want to do some research before you blast us that choose not to use BlackMag3. I have been at shooting muzzleloader for over 15 years.

chuck bianchi · « **Reply #53 on:** February 04, 2005, 04:22:01 AM »

:lol:this powder is worth it.I gave away everything else use what ever turns you on

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #54 on:** February 04, 2005, 05:14:44 AM »

I have to agree that you need to use what works for you. I know there are a lot of shooters that love 777 and I'm glad for Hodgdon that there are. I use a lot of their smokeless and was elated when they released the 777. Unfortunately in my rifle it does not work. I am still trying to figure out why some Omega rifles will accept it but some won't. Mine seems to be the worst I have heard of as there is nothing that completely fixes the crud ring in mine. When I got some of the Black Mag'3 and found it shoots great for me in my rifle that is why I got on the band wagon. I know there are others that are having the same dissatisfaction with 777 and this is the cure if you fall into that group. I don't think I have tried to badmouth anyone that can use Triple Seven; in fact I usually call them the "lucky ones". I would love to use less expensive powder if it would work. Apparently Hodgdon and Thompson Center have no interest in trying to solve this problem which absolutely surprises me as they are both losing with the bad press and problems associated with the "crud ring". I'm just hoping that Magkor can get the distribution going and possibly get the price down. If not I will pay the price as I have little other options. BM3 got my elk for me this year.

Stan M. · « **Reply #55 on:** February 04, 2005, 05:44:52 AM »

I was letting everyone know what to expect when they went to their local dealer, if they can find it. This powder is not cheap! I am also telling you how to get it cheaper. I now have two jugs sitting on the shelf as I am writing this, almost $70.00 worth. I will give Black Mag 3 a try it when the weather permits. I also have a great number of cans of the other powders that I have found at Wal-Mart on a close out price of about $8.00 a can.
I am also stating that Black Mag's price is not competitive with other powders and for that reason it will have a hard time making it. I feel Hodgdon products will be the main stay because of this. I'm not saying they are better than Black Mag 3.
I will tell you that I have a Remington 700 ML that will cut holes at 100 yds on any given day with 777, Pyrodex P, Pyrodex RS, and Pyrodex Select. I have never had a crud ring, stuck breech plug, or problems loading a bullet. I know how to deal with the extra 777 recoil as well.
The Encores and the Omegas are the rifles famous for the crud ring and other problems. I bought Black Mag 3 to hopefully nip these problems in the bud with my new Encore. Plus I love to experiment with new products.
My normal procedure, when looking for acurracy is to shoot from a clean bore. I will clean between shots, always have, never had a problem nor do I have a problem swabbing. If I did I wouldn't shoot muzzle loaders. When I go hunting I'm not going out with a dirty barrel, if the rifle will shoot with a clean barrel. When I'm practicing at different distances I will shoot a few times before cleaning. I will not part with the cheaper Remington until the Encore will shoot as well. My biggest buck ever, (top 10 in the Eastern part of the state that year) was killed with a TC New Englander with iron sights, Pyrodex P and a conical bullet.
If I offended someone with the use of "good ol boys", sorry as I was referring to the average person, my redneck self included.
CCI used it for years, oh well.
Use what works for you in your rifle because each one has it's own personality. Just because something cost more doesn't always mean it is better than something cheaper, my Mathews bow included.
Good Shooting

Stan

newhunter1 · « **Reply #56 on:** February 04, 2005, 08:17:21 AM »

[/quote]I can afford it without a problem, but I have used triple7 sense it came out and I have great success with it. Why change just because one guy speaks so highly of BlackMag3. Nothing to do with the "good ole' boys." I shoot what works for me! Being new to this you might want to do some research before you blast us that choose not to use BlackMag3. I have been at shooting muzzleloader for over 15 years.[/quote]

Where exactly did I blast you? I don't feel that I "blasted" anyone, but if you feel that way then maybe your to sensitive. Before I get into any hunting activity I try and research it thourghly. Before I got into Bowhunting I researched the different companies and bows until I had migranes. After I asked hundreds of questions to people (both live and online) I narrowed down the bows that I wanted to shoot. Then after shooting the bows I picked the one that worked best for me. After picking the bows I researched the arrows, then the broadheads. I am constantly changing, searching for the best setup that works for me.

Now to ML shooting and hunting. Since around Nov/Dec I have been wanting to get into all forms of hunting. A CVA was bought for me and now I am researching the different powders. I have looking at APP, 777, and BM3. I have the 777 and will buy the BM3 before I shoot my gun. I have two types of bullets to see which shoots the best.

So I do the research you suggested and listen the experience that others have had. I will shoot the 777's, then clean my rifle and then shoot the BM3.

I wasn't trying to slam anyone and if it came across then I do apologize.

Paul Merioles