Encore Scope and Mounting Questions

[bigjeepinyj]

Well I just found this site a few days ago and have spent many hours searching on this site the last few days.

I ordered a new Encore (Walnut Stock/Blued Barrel 209x50) on friday.

Since then I have ordered the .25 ACP conversion, hammer extender, and new larger locking pins... As soon as I get the gun I am going to ship the barrel out to have the CLA removed and have a Weaver six screw scope mount installed. From this point I have a few questions.

I am building this rifle to be my full time gun. Going to use it through shotgun season here in Indiana.

What type of optics and MOUNTS are everyone using.

I am pretty much set on a Leupold 3x9x40 just from all of the comments and such. But I am open to any other suggestions.... Also what is the best mounting setup?

Any general inline help and suggestions would be great!

Drew

[AndyHass]

Be warned there is a contour problem with those barrels.  Every one I've seen has used up most of the vertical scope adjustment to zero in using regular rings.  There are special rings you can get to fix that...Vapour knows which ones, maybe others.
    Why are you cutting off the QLA, out of curiousity?  Just to shorten the overall length?

[bigjeepinyj]

I have been researching the QLA issue and think that there is an advantage to removing this feature. Many people have found that the QLA is off center to the main rifeling of the barrel, therefore decreasing accuracy.

I have never heard of a problem mounting a scope on the encore ML barrel??

Any more news on this?

[Keith Lewis]

I disagree with removing the QLA thing. I think if you are planning on shooting 1000 yards in competition there might just possibly be a slight advantage in removing the QLA. It this is to be a hunting rifle leave it alone the advantage for quicker reloading is worth 1/16 inch or less difference in impact at 100 yards. Personally I doubt that any Encore accuracy problems are due to the QLA. Larger pins OK. Possibly lap the barrel if it doesn't shoot the way you want after shooting 100 rounds or so. Thompson Center is really a better than average manufacturer and I think their Quality control is at least as good as Traditions or CVA and the QLA on those guns work fine. I have an Omega with QLA and a Traditions Pursuit LT with QLA. Both shoot one inch groups or less at 50 yards and just under 2 inches at 100 and I have only shot about 30 rounds through either one. It gets better with time and experimentation.

[Redhawk1]

Well I just found this site a few days ago and have spent many hours searching on this site the last few days.

I ordered a new Encore (Walnut Stock/Blued Barrel 209x50) on friday.

Since then I have ordered the .25 ACP conversion, hammer extender, and new larger locking pins... As soon as I get the gun I am going to ship the barrel out to have the CLA removed and have a Weaver six screw scope mount installed. From this point I have a few questions.

I am building this rifle to be my full time gun. Going to use it through shotgun season here in Indiana.

What type of optics and MOUNTS are everyone using.

I am pretty much set on a Leupold 3x9x40 just from all of the comments and such. But I am open to any other suggestions.... Also what is the best mounting setup?

Any general inline help and suggestions would be great!

Drew

I have to agree with Keith Lewis. I do not think the QLA is a problem on the barrel. My accuracy is 1 to 1 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards. I have 3 Encore M/L barrels and none of them are affected by the QLA. I think you should try shooting your gun with the QLA before having the work done.

Now I love the 25ACP primer over the 209. Helps with triple7 and is easier to install then the 209. IMO  

I use  the Warne mount and rings on all my Encore barrels. And they work great.

I use a Leupold 2X7X33 on my M/L, a 3X9X40 would also work well in my opinion.

[ciscoman14]

Hello,  I use the Leopold quick release system and it works very well for me.  It is very sturdy and I have it on two guns without any problems. Before you start cutting on a new gun.......SHOOT IT.  My 50/209 is very accurate.  See picture.......Enjoy your new toy.

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/album_pic.php?pic_id=299

[Wolfhound]

Well I just found this site a few days ago and have spent many hours searching on this site the last few days.

I ordered a new Encore (Walnut Stock/Blued Barrel 209x50) on friday.

Since then I have ordered the .25 ACP conversion, hammer extender, and new larger locking pins... As soon as I get the gun I am going to ship the barrel out to have the CLA removed and have a Weaver six screw scope mount installed. From this point I have a few questions.

I am building this rifle to be my full time gun. Going to use it through shotgun season here in Indiana.

What type of optics and MOUNTS are everyone using.

I am pretty much set on a Leupold 3x9x40 just from all of the comments and such. But I am open to any other suggestions.... Also what is the best mounting setup?

Any general inline help and suggestions would be great!

Drew

Congrats! I've heard the Encore is a good gun. I own an Omega which uses the same base as the Encore. I use the Maxima quick release rings that T/C sells. My scope is a Burris FF2 3-9X40 with the Ballistic plex reticle. I also have added a sims limbsaver recoil pad to my rifle (same one will fit your Encore, just cut the insert off and sand the back smooth) which has made my Omega very pleasant to shoot. You may wish to try 250 gr Shockwaves and 100 gr of FFG 777. You'll need a short starter. This load gives me my best accuracy. Another tip is buy a PowerRod. http://www.xssights.com/catblack.html

You'll have to check your ramrod lenght first. Also I am not certain of the length difference between the barrel lenth and the ramrod length. There is some difference with my Omega, but it makes no difference as I am able to use the rod for loading without adding a jag. Some of the Encore shooters here can get you that info.

[Nic_58]

Bigjeepinyj,

Well, I will have to agree with Keith on the subject of the removal of the QLA.  If you're not going to shoot it in benchrest competition, then I don't see the need to remove the QLA from a hunting rifle.  In fact, it is an asset when it comes to loading IMO.  I've owned a Black Diamond XR  and currently own an Omega that both had the QLA and both of these guns would shoot sub 1" groups at 100 yds.  I don't see the QLA as a detriment to accuracy, especially in a gun intended for hunting.  If I were you, I would do as the others suggested and shoot it first before cutting it off.....once you remove it, you can't put it back on!

On my Omega, I use the Leupold QR rings and base.  The same base will fit your Encore.  It is especially handy when it comes time to clean the gun to be able to remove the scope.  The Leupold system will return to zero after re-installing also.

I am using the Leupold VX-II 3x9x40mm scope on my Omega also.   This is a more than adequate scope for the Omega/Encore.  You will be very pleased with this scope.

If you need advice on how to get started, then ask specific questions and you will get plenty of good advice on this site!  Believe me, it will save you a ton of time and money in the long run!  Good luck with the new Encore, you made a great choice!

[AndyHass]

That's why I asked...I have heard of exactly one person (6th-hand account) who found an off-center QLA.  My Omega, which has the same barrel as the Encore, shoots sub-inch groups at 100 yards with the right load and hold this accuracy past 300 yards.  The QLA does certainly make it easier to load the gun without a short-starter.  I know dozens of people with Omegas and Encores, and every one has gotten it sub-1.5" with at least one load.  My biggest peeve about these barrels is they tend to be picky on what they will shoot.
     As long as the thing is straight, false muzzles (the QLA is an attached false muzzle) have been proven to increase accuracy.  I would definitely shoot the gun first.  If the best load you can find isn't at least 1.5" at 100 yards (given the shooter does his part!), THEN I would consider cutting the barrel.  Just my opinion....

[bigjeepinyj]

Hey Guys!

Thanks for all the great replies!! I am going to take it out before I do anything to it!

I am going to get a power rod for it just to ease in the loading of the gun... Does anyone have the measurement for there Ram Rod... Dont have the gun here and would like to order one today!

I purchased a Bushnell Elite 4200 for it this weekend. Reading over this site it seems to be one of the favorites!

Any other info I might need let me know!!!

Thanks,
Drew

[bigjeepinyj]

One more thing... What size rings will the bushnell 4200 need???


Thanks,
Drew

[upnorth]

welcome!! my qla was off by a few thousands of an inch, so I had it removed. I do agree that you should try the gun before you remove it. I called t/c about it, they said it would be replaced at n/c , but would be 6-8 months due to workload. I made a choice to have it done locally, but I have now voided any warranty on the barrel. so please, do lots of shooting and experimenting first.as for the scope, I too used all the adjustment after I mounted it. A machinist friend gave me thin, flexible sheet metal. I cut a small shim and installed it under the rear mounting screw. works perfect. put my adjustment back in the middle.

[bigjeepinyj]

Well after all of your advice here is what I have ordered:

Encore 209X50 Walnut/Blued
Bushnell Elite 4200 2.5X10X40
Leupold QR Base and Mounts
.25 ACP Breech Plug Conversion
Belm Hammer Extension
Bellm Oversized Pin
Going to order XS Power Rod.... When I get the Ram Rod length

My local shop has all the Powder and Bullets and loading accesories!

Anything else you all think I will need???

[Cuz]

If, you shoot much?? you will want a Sims recoil. as suggested by one of the fellows.
I fully agree DO NOT CUT the QLA until after you shoot. I get a 'satisfactory' 2" group at 100 yards and this with 100 gr RS & Hornady 240 XTP. 209 ignition.
Your choices seem to be OK and as I KNOW from experience, you will change one or more of the components of your weapon. I hope you enjoy your Omega as much as I enjoy mine.
a fellow at the range shoots an Encore, same load and gets just about the same grouping as I do. So, figure am doing OK.

One change I am making this year, next week, is to Black Mag 3 and Shockwaves. do not know the load, yet, but will post it as soon as the powder arrives and I have time to shoot enough to arrive at a satisfactory load. One thing I know, am moving the chrony back to 15', so as NOT to blow the darn thing up or burn it up.
No matter what powder I shoot, so far, I have a crud ring and this BM3 is NOT supposed to create such a ring. Time will tell.

also shoot a replica Hawkin, some,  and this inline is much more FUNNER!

Cuz

[Wolfhound]

Going to order XS Power Rod.... When I get the Ram Rod length

I believe Redhawk1 has an Encore. Perhaps you should private Message him for a ramrod length.

Anything else you all think I will need???

The fellow above me gave you a good suggestion. Get a Sims Limbsaver for your Encore. You won't be sorry. I believe I suggested it earlier, perhaps you missed it.

[upnorth]

your ramrod should be 24". . as for bullets, you might want to consider the .357 175 gr duplex from precision bullets. they are little lazers!! I tried them after talking with cecil at the range, and after some experimenting, I can put 3 in a ragged hole all day! you might want to consider getting the folding attatchment that pretty much makes the factory rod into a folding t-handle type. only 11.99. we're all here to help, so don't be afraid to ask.

[Redhawk1]

Hey Guys!

Thanks for all the great replies!! I am going to take it out before I do anything to it!

I am going to get a power rod for it just to ease in the loading of the gun... Does anyone have the measurement for there Ram Rod... Dont have the gun here and would like to order one today!





Thanks,
Drew

I measured both of my ram rods, and they are 23 3/4 inches long.
Keep us informed how you make out with your Encore.

[bigjeepinyj]

What size Sims pad do I need???

Redhawk thanks for measuring your Ram Rod!

I ordered the .357 195 bullets from Precision on Friday, that is what they suggested. They are on sale this month! I am going to try them with some 777 powder and see what I get as far as accuracy! I would like to get somewhere in the 1" group range.... I am just a stickler for accuracy!

GREAT SITE!!! GREAT HELP!! Nothing like talking guns!

[Vapour]

Welcome.  On scope mounting, the Burris signature Zee ring series has offset inserts in case your scope base does not line up with the barrel exactly--I just went with a scope with LOTS of vertical adjustment to overcome this problem.  

Good luck with the prbullets.  I wish I could get those 195 grain duplex dead centers to work in my Encore, but the best I could do with them was 4 inch groups with 80-120 grains of powder--no idea why.  The 220 grain dead centers would shoot sub-MOA though.

[bigjeepinyj]

I talked to him at great length and that is what he recommended. I hope that I can get better than 4" Groups :eek: !! If not I might be a little upset with his recommendation!

Now you have me worried! Well I will try them out and see what happens!

[bigjeepinyj]

I talked to him at great length and that is what he recommended. I hope that I can get better than 4" Groups :eek: !! If not I might be a little upset with his recommendation!

Now you have me worried! Well I will try them out and see what happens!

[quickdtoo]

What size Sims pad do I need???

Part #10030

http://www.limbsaver.com/limbsaver/firearms/precfit.aspx

[bigjeepinyj]

Thanks
!!!!

[AndyHass]

Omegas and Encores have the same barrel manufatured by Green Mountain I believe, so my exieriences with my Omega and my friend's Encore follow.

On bullets:
   Forget the 195 .357DC (IMO).  I don't know anyone who could get them to work in these barrels at decent charges (80+ grains).  Mine too made 4" groups.  The 220 worked pretty well, and I haven't tried the 240 enough to know.  The 175 might work; I didn't try it because that is getting pretty light for my taste given the longer ranges I tend to get shots at in my fields.  The 195 in a different gun performed excellent for me out to 200 yards last year though.

On scope shims:
   Try cutting pieces of aluminum pop cans.  I shimmed the rear of the mounting rail on my Omega with 4-5 layers to get some reasonable adjustment back into the scope.  I drilled holes through the layers so the rear screw goes right through them.

[bigjeepinyj]

Omegas and Encores have the same barrel manufatured by Green Mountain I believe, so my exieriences with my Omega and my friend's Encore follow.

On bullets:
   Forget the 195 .357DC (IMO).  I don't know anyone who could get them to work in these barrels at decent charges (80+ grains).  Mine too made 4" groups.  The 220 worked pretty well, and I haven't tried the 240 enough to know.  The 175 might work; I didn't try it because that is getting pretty light for my taste given the longer ranges I tend to get shots at in my fields.  The 195 in a different gun performed excellent for me out to 200 yards last year though.

On scope shims:
   Try cutting pieces of aluminum pop cans.  I shimmed the rear of the mounting rail on my Omega with 4-5 layers to get some reasonable adjustment back into the scope.  I drilled holes through the layers so the rear screw goes right through them.

Well I guess that I will have 50 bucks of ammo that I cant use.... :evil:  That SUCKS!!!  Well chalk that up for a loss... What ammo would you suggest?? He told me that was the load that he suggested most for the encore??

Anyone else have any luck with this round???

[Vapour]

Those bullets may be fine in your gun--these barrels seem to be pretty finicky.  Just because they don't work in some guns (including mine)--I wish they did--doesn't mean that they won't work in yours.


I'm now shooting 200 grain Thompson Center Shockwaves (these are rebranded SST's).  These group as well as the 220 grain dead centers, and cost about half as much.

[bigjeepinyj]

Do you have your CLA removed??? I have been talking with David White about the removal of the CLA and he says that most every barrel that he has seen has been off.....

Dont know....

[bigjeepinyj]

Those bullets may be fine in your gun--these barrels seem to be pretty finicky.  Just because they don't work in some guns (including mine)--I wish they did--doesn't mean that they won't work in yours.


I'm now shooting 200 grain Thompson Center Shockwaves (these are rebranded SST's).  These group as well as the 220 grain dead centers, and cost about half as much.

I mentioned about the CLA above....

Also are you using a 209 primer or an alternative??? .25 ACP or Hornet??

Just trying to get a feel for your setup vs. what  I will have....

[Vapour]

This is a 9 month old Stainless/Walnut Encore 209X50.  It still has its QLA.  I use remington STS 209 primers.  I sanded out some of the wood from the barrel channel to semi-freefloat the barrel--no contact between barrel and foreend except at the pillers--and used linseed oil on the freshly bare wood.  I also used JB bore paste to polish the bore.  Everything else is stock.

For powder, I use FFFG 777--can't seem to use more than 90 grains or accuracy opens up with pretty much any bullet I've tried--similar results using FFG 777.  At 90 grains my best 220 grain dead center group was 3 shots 0.6 inches center to center with 5 shot groups usually at or under 1 inch center to center--this chronographed at around 1850 fps.  At 90 grains my best 200 grain shockwave group was 3 shots 0.5 inches center to center with 5 shot groups also remaining at or under 1 inch.  These groups are from targets 100 yards away shooting from a sandbag rest.

Hope that helps.

[Redhawk1]

Omegas and Encores have the same barrel manufatured by Green Mountain I believe, so my exieriences with my Omega and my friend's Encore follow.

On bullets:
   Forget the 195 .357DC (IMO).  I don't know anyone who could get them to work in these barrels at decent charges (80+ grains).  Mine too made 4" groups.  The 220 worked pretty well, and I haven't tried the 240 enough to know.  The 175 might work; I didn't try it because that is getting pretty light for my taste given the longer ranges I tend to get shots at in my fields.  The 195 in a different gun performed excellent for me out to 200 yards last year though.

On scope shims:
   Try cutting pieces of aluminum pop cans.  I shimmed the rear of the mounting rail on my Omega with 4-5 layers to get some reasonable adjustment back into the scope.  I drilled holes through the layers so the rear screw goes right through them.

Well I guess that I will have 50 bucks of ammo that I cant use.... :evil:  That SUCKS!!!  Well chalk that up for a loss... What ammo would you suggest?? He told me that was the load that he suggested most for the encore??

Anyone else have any luck with this round???

bigjeepinyj, try them before you give up on them. I know several people that use the 195 grain duplex dead centers in there Encores and have great accuracy. I use the 295 gr. powerbelts and have good accuracy. But today I ordered 240 of the 195 grain duplex dead centers from Precision Rifle to start work up loads in my Encore. I am always looking to improve my accuracy. If I can't get them to shoot in my Encores I will just sell them to someone that is having good accuracy.