300gr loads for 45/70

[Nebraska Kelly]

Thanks for the replys to my first post on my new 45/70 handi. I am asking for your pet load information using a 300gr bullet at near MAXIMUM velocitys with good accuracy. I hunt deer in eastern Nebraska and I often get shots across fields of 200 yards. I dont have a lot of time to reload and try everything so I want to start with a load of 300gr hollow point at around 2,000 fps or above but with good accuracy. If I can find a load that works well in the handi with the above specs then I will just use it for everything. I dont hunt animals larger than deer. I would appriciate any suggestions and loads you have tried that work well. I know I will take (flack) for wanting a full power load but so be it.
Thanks again.

[Mac11700]

Nosler 300 grain partition...Remington nickle cases...H4198 powder...Remington 9-1/2 primers...use Lee factory crimp die...and work up your loads from the Hodgdons Annual Manual...they list the Sierra 300 grainer...but the partitions will work and are super accurate...you can get up to 2300+ fps with the right load...and will work like a charm...just start out at the minimum loads and work up slowly....if the Nosler isn't to your liking...try the Speer Uni-core with Varget or Benchmark...


You can down load the supplamental data from Speer here

www.speer-bullets.com

Mac

[quickdtoo]

Hmm, sounds familiar!  :lol:

[Mac11700]

Yep...This is as best as I can give on this one... :wink:  


Mac

[Thebear_78]

I have heard a lot of really good things about the Nosler partition bullets in the 45/70.  I know a few people who use it for moose up here in AK.  It should do a fine job.

[handirifle]

I had a crazy thought the other night.  I have some copper wire left over from old jobs and was wondering about the possibility of melting it down and pouring that into a mold for a 300gr HP, 45-70.

How hot does copper have to be to melt?  Does it melt too hot for molds?

It would be like a Barnes  bullet.

[Mac11700]

Where are my manners :oops:

Welcome Aboard  ....... Nebraska Kelly  

Sorry about that...hope the information helps.....

Handirifle...I think you would have to find the right mixture prior to pouring...to get the hardness correct...and I don't know how you would get the splits in it like the barnes...sounds very interesting to say the least :wink:

Mac

[handirifle]

Mac
Yea the splits were something I wondered about also.  I suppose you could have a custom mold made that poured a thin hollow point.  You would not have the petal action of a Barnes but it WOULD expand.

Something to think about.

[handirifle]

I looked it up and copper melts about 700 deg higher than aluminum so you would have to use steel molds for sure.  The bullet would have to be slightly longer than lead cause copper is less dense, but that would improve the ballistics some, I think.

Hummmmm....this seems more intruiging all the time.

Now I wonder how pure the copper in electric wires are?

[Gowge]

Guys, I think if you want a real flat shooting load for your handi-rifles, you might find a lighter, hard cast bullet totally adequate for DEER in the performance range you're considering.  

Properly sized & lubed cast bullets can deliver better performance at lower pressures than jacketed bullets in many cartridges - especially in the 45-70.    Straight from the mold, hard cast bullets for 45LC are very close to the correct diameter for use in a 45-70 ~ just a little bit undersized.   You can enlarge an aluminum mold a tiny bit by coating a soft lead slug from the mold with abraisive and carefully spinning it inside the mold under a drill press.   The modified mold would yield a bullet that is lighter than the 300gr under discussion, but just as effective on DEER sized game from your Handi-Rifles.    Here's a few links to articles about cast bullets in handguns & rifles.    IF a Keith 250-260gr Hard Cast @ 1000fps from a 45LC HANDGUN is plenty for deer, think what it can do from a rifle at nearly double that velocity!   :wink:

http://www.sixgunner.com/backissues/paco/fcl1.htm

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_10_47/ai_78130011

http://www.sixgunner.com/backissues/paco/4570leverguns.htm

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm

GOOD LUCK!  

[Joel]

Never had any success with high velocity hardcast bullets in the 45/70, but then I don't normally shoot cast bullets, so might have done something wrong.  I tried 300 gr  from a well known local caster and 350 gr from a guy down near Pittsburg, and using IMR 4198, Re 7 and 3031. Tried various combinations to get 1900 fps from the 300 gr and 1750 from the 350's.  Both bullets were rated by the guys who cast them at up to 2000 fps, and were sized at .458 and .459.  RIght.  In all cases they were all over the paper(and off the paper).  Tried them crimped and uncrimped, just on the rifling/off the rifling, cases belled and not- belled etc. Finally just gave up.  At that time this was still the "old" Graybeard forum, and none of the folks there, many of whom shot  cast, had had any luck either at those velocities.  Maybe some one here has had more experience and can shed some light on that.  I"d be interested in trying them again, I know.

[RussB]

Never had any success with high velocity hardcast bullets in the 45/70, but then I don't normally shoot cast bullets, so might have done something wrong. ........  I"d be interested in trying them again, I know.

Joel...I've been casting for more years than I like to think about, and I have made some very interesting observations...at least with my style / way of doing things.
Cast bullets, for the most part... in the 45-70, seem to perform better with "soft" cast bullets, and low velocities.  High velocity (2000+fps) is best for the smaller calibers in a "hard" cast bullet.
Pure lead, in the 45-70, over black powder, can often give accuracy and enough energy to simply amaze the shooter. At the same time, low pressure loads with "white" powder can do the same thing, only in spades.
Cast bullet shooting has a place in our little world, and can add a whole new dimension to your shooting world. However, it must be kept to somewhat lower pressures.
Just my thoughts.
Russ

[handirifle]

My Buffalo Classic would not shoot any cast loads above black powder velocities.  I'm talking keyholing 500gr bullets at 50yds, when pushed hard.  Not enough rifling in my opinion to grab the bullet properly when pushed too fast.

I could shoot sub 1" 3 shot groups with 400gr jacketed loads though.

[Mac11700]

Well...I can't say shooting cast bullets at BP loadings out of my 1895 GS will do any better than running my Cast Performance 405 grain WLNGC at 1900 fps namely because I've never tried...but out of the 18-1/2" tube they avaerage 1 to 1/2" groups at 100 yards...and I have found that other folks real soft cast non- gas checked bullets don't really do good at all...at any velocity I've shot them at....maybe it's the Ballard rifling...and as far as jacketed rounds...same thing...the faster I push them...the better they group...


Mac

[Gowge]

Joel & Russ,
The bullet diameter is probably equally as important as the load you're shooting when it comes to lead bullet accuracy.   CAST LEAD bullets perform best when they're oversized by a few thou', depending on the bore of the rifle.    It takes a slugged barrel so you know the exact dimensions of the bore, to choose the right diameter bullet for a particular rifle.   The guys @ Beartooth Bullets have some excellent articles on the website about cast bullet diameters and what works in which rifles and calibers.   If a load shoots accurately at slow velocity, but falls apart when you bump it up, the bullets are probably undersized way too much.    In a 45-70, a .460" or even larger diameter will deliver better performance - and a harder bullet will reduce barrel leading to almost nothing as you increase the velocity.  

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/

Step by Step 45-70 For Beginners....

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/49

Tech Notes Articles - be sure to read the series on the 444 Marlin.  Many of the same issues as with the 45-70, since both cartridges are very similar.

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/index.htm

Resource Center - More Articles on Loading & Cast Bullets.

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/center/index.htm

GOOD LUCK!   :wink: