Author Topic: Just bought 35 whelen (Read 855 times)

Ct Kid · « **on:** October 10, 2004, 01:06:55 PM »

Just bought a 35 whelen from auctionarms( Rocky mountian Elk).It was advertised with tool marks or pitting in the bore.Took a chance and bought it. Just came back from the range today and have some questions.To start it's a good looking rifle, points nice. I reload and had shot some 250 gr rn threw it with respectable groups(no bigger then 2 inches at 100 yards). I shoot 1 to 2 grains under max so I don't have to worry pressure.This is the question and the problem--- my reloads performed great for a first outing( trigger is heavy) but I shot some remington factory 200gr and 250gr. Neither of the factory loads hit the paper. Can't figure it out. Anybody have this problem, any ideas. thanks

handirifle · « **Reply #1 on:** October 10, 2004, 02:48:15 PM »

Ct Kid
First off, congrats on the new rifle. Wow, that is a weird one.

I'm not sure what twist rate the NEF uses but since your loads were with the 250gr bullets that should not be the issue.

The only thing I can think of are case dimentions and overal length of the loaded rounds.

I'd start by comparing yours to theirs. Make sure bullet depth is the same or close. Yours might be seated much longer??

Maybe someone else will have a few more ideas.

Paul5388 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 10, 2004, 04:39:07 PM »

My Whelen isn't a NEF and it hasn't ever had a factory load shot in it. However, with the 200 and the 250 both doing their thing, I don't think it's a matter of twist.

Since neither factory load hits the paper, I would suggest checking all three through a chronograph. One or the other must be a lot different in velocity. OTOH you could put up a big sheet of paper for a target and see where they are hitting in relationship to each other.

Why do you want to shoot factory loads anyway? If your handloads are giving you 2" groups, just stick with handloads. :grin:

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 10, 2004, 06:08:23 PM »

I have a ruger bolt 35 whelen but my favorite load is the Hornady RN with 54gr of Varget for about 2420fps. This load will shoot well under an inch at 100 yards.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 10, 2004, 06:18:51 PM »

Congrats on the RMEF Handi...I got one last month and they do point good...don't they...I have a simalar problem with mine...I sighted mine in with the Remington factory 200 grainers...and my handloaded Barnes 180 was completly off....2-1/2 feet low to be exact...I attributed that more to the load being squirelly than anything else though...I do plan on loading up some Speers 180 grainers and see if it does the same thing...

Mac

Donaldo · « **Reply #5 on:** October 10, 2004, 06:53:16 PM »

When starting with a new rifle or a new scope, I always start at 25 yards until I know where the thing is shooting, then go to 50 yards for a final check before going to 100 yards. Maybe this would help.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 10, 2004, 06:58:03 PM »

Well I satrted out at 50 yards...then moved to 100 yards with the Remington factory load......after sighting in there...I started with my handloads at 100 yards...I never thought it would be that low...if I hadn't put up extra targets on the stand...I wouldn't have figured it out...I only loaded 20 rounds....to start with..10 for the Chrony...and 10 for groups...I was trying to get some deceant groups on the last day of the postal match and it was only the second time shooting the Whelen...

Mac

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #7 on:** October 10, 2004, 07:10:56 PM »

Something is snakey for sure. A load change using the same bullet weight at roughly the same velocity should not make that kind of change. I'd try another group with the handloads to make sure the problem is with the loads.

My guess is that the trouble is with the gun. Check the scope screws on general principles. Another possiblity is that the rough bore has given you a serious case of copper fouling in short order. A good cleaning with a copper remover is in order. A third possibilty is that the scope got shaken to death.

Paul5388 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 10, 2004, 07:32:42 PM »

Mac,

A 200 gr Hornady PSP with 53.0 gr IMR 3031 will give me 3/4" groups at 100 yards. I haven't ever checked the velocity, but it's under max by a couple of grains. It grouped so much better than the faster loads I just stuck with it. In my .357 the Rem 200 PSP groups about as good as the Hornady's and they are cheaper.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 11, 2004, 03:30:08 AM »

Thanks Paul...I certainly give them a try...

Mac

RussB · « **Reply #10 on:** October 11, 2004, 07:02:16 AM »

Quote from: Paul5388

A 200 gr Hornady PSP with 53.0 gr IMR 3031 will give me 3/4" groups at 100 yards. I haven't ever checked the velocity, but it's under max by a couple of grains. It grouped so much better than the faster loads I just stuck with it. In my .357 the Rem 200 PSP groups about as good as the Hornady's and they are cheaper.

Hi Paul...It is seldom, actually very seldom, that a particular load performs well in one rifle, and then again just as good in totally different rifle.

It seems that 53.0gr IMR 3031 behind that 200gr Horn PSP does just that.

I am seating my bullets 1/2 die turn off the lands and use a "press-on" crimp by removing the stem of the sizer die, and running the loaded round very lightly back in the die. My Whelen is not a NEF either, and do I have to wonder if this load would work as well in a NEF.
I tend to think there is something else going on that is causing the problem with the "Rocky Mountain" rifle...I just can't contribute that much difference to the ammo, or "tool marks".

I also own a NEF, in 45-70, and I KNOW that where I rest the hand guard on the shooting rest has a LOT to do with where the POI is. I have "floated" the barrel, and added that magic bushing over the screw attachment...all to no avail. If I don't sit the "swivel" on the bag, it is going to hit somewhere else, especially if the barrel touches the bag. But, if that swivel is sitting on the rest, and I'm applying pressure with my left hand on the top of the barrel over that swivel, my gun will stack 'em up at 50yds, and right around that 1" mark at 100yds...sometimes just a wee bit less.
I would suggest the CT Kid take a look at the forearm, if there is a shinny "spot" on the wood, sand it off until it is no longer touching the barrel. I use "Belgium Blue" on the barrel, and keep sanding until it no longer leaves a mark on the wood....certainly worth a try.
Respectfully, Russ

Paul5388 · « **Reply #11 on:** October 11, 2004, 09:02:11 AM »

Russ,

I suppose that is true about the loads being uniquely good for only a certain barrel. However, we all seem to get good results with 45 gr Win white box in our .223's, so there must be a difference in OAL, or some such, that causes the variation in what is loaded by different people.

It has been my experience, which may be totally different for someone else, that the seating depth doesn't mean much on a Handi. Therefore, I seem to get my best results with the bullets seated in the cannelure, theoretically making a "factory length" cartridge. I do not use a roll crimp on anything I shoot out of a Handi, including handgun chamberings.

I have switched my front rest to a $9.95 Winchester that Midway had on sale recently. I use a little Caldwell "bean bag" on top of the rest, filled with rice (I guess I should have called it a "rice bag"!). The surface is long enough to allow a Handi to balance on it, if it is rested just foward of the trigger guard. I believe this has helped tighten my groups.

This picture shows the larger flat area of the Winchester rest with the "rice bag" on it.. The rear bag is another Winchester filled with wheat. If the weevils ever get in my bags I'm sunk! :eek: I have the Handi rested just a little farther forward than normal, for some reason. :roll:

RussB · « **Reply #12 on:** October 11, 2004, 10:26:37 AM »

Paul...It would seem you do have your's "rested" a bit farther forward than I do...on my gun your "rice bag" would be directly under the swivel stud.

Just one of those "little quirks" that each must work out with his own gun.
And, perhaps that's how it should be. OTH it would certainly be nice to run into a "cure-all" for everybody's problem with one neat little trick!
Respectfully, Russ

I was thinking my gun is farther "back", guess it's actually a bit farther forward...I'm sure you understand what I meant. (Swivel stud over bag.)

Paul5388 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 11, 2004, 12:07:58 PM »

Russ,

When our age is double digit and the first digit is a 6, there is a common trend toward that type of thing! I think the reason I started resting that far back was so I could keep the heavier recoiling guns from moving so much. I actually hold the forearm when I shoot, even though they are rested. :-)

handirifle · « **Reply #14 on:** October 11, 2004, 12:09:06 PM »

I am very fortunate with my 223 UV as itdoesn't seem to care where I rest it.

Ct Kid · « **Reply #15 on:** October 11, 2004, 01:42:14 PM »

Went and checked my reloads for specs. 50 grs of varget(which is the starting load)With a horned 250gar rn. A.oe.la is 3.240 which is from the horned reloading manual.The fops is close to factory(2348 listed from hodgdon).The 200 grs were over 300 fps. That might explain why they could have been shooting high.Cleaned the barrel and and there did not seem like there was excess fouling, actually it was on the clean side.Checked all scope and mount screws all were nice and tight.After I shot the factory ammo I went back and shot the reloads and they grouped fine.Just have to go to the range more. Thanks