Author Topic: Buckshot for deer hunting? (Read 1535 times)

hammerless99 · « **on:** October 12, 2004, 04:58:07 PM »

Hi All,
I prefer whitetail hunting with my rifle but a mornings or two a week before work IÂ’ll have an opportunity to go before work on a woodlot in the small town I live in. No firearms with Â“single projectilesÂ” allowed. So Saturday I headed to the gravel pit with my 12ga pump, two barrels and 4 different types of buckshot in order to pattern my gun. I placed 18Â”x18Â” paper targets with 7Â” circles in the center and measured off 35 yds. I was very surprised at the poor patterns I got with one clear exception, the #4 buckshot from the 28Â” full choke was the only load that consistently put 4+ pellets inside the 7Â” circle along with even distribution of pellets on the rest of the paper.
I tried 00B Win Super-X, 00B Win Supreme, 1B Win Super-X, and 4B Win Supreme. All loads were 3Â” Magnums. With the 00B & 1B I was lucky to get 3 pellets on the paper let alone any in the circle!! The other barrel that I tried was a 24Â” poly type choke cranked to Â“fullÂ”. I suppose I could have tried the poly choke at a different setting but IÂ’ll tell you, my shoulders couldnÂ’t take any more of that abuse!!! I think that if I keep my shots to 35 yrds or less I should be alright but my question is: Is it best to Â“aimÂ” at the neck when shooting with buckshot? At 35 yrds shooting broadside will the .24 cal. #4B pellets penetrate to the heart/lung vitals?
I appreciate any suggestions.

brown-trout · « **Reply #1 on:** October 12, 2004, 08:13:01 PM »

i'd try for less than 35 yards on deer if i could......buckshot can group poorly in some guns.

try the non mag 2.75" loads out of a mod choke barrel.

bt

pastorp · « **Reply #2 on:** October 12, 2004, 08:34:19 PM »

hammerless, I was raised in Florida and lived there until my mid thirties. We hunted with shotguns a lot. Rifles were legal but shotguns were so versatile. In my experience #4 buckshot is too small for deer. And full choke is too tight. #1 buck is as small as I would go, and 00 is better. I once had a gunsmith rework a rem.870 for buckshot shooting. It was a 12ga. He recommended a imp. modified choke and with 2&3/4" mag. 00 loads it was the tightest shooting buckshot gun I ever owned. I also feel you should limit your shots to 25 yds with buckshot. Try a more open choke and try the 12 pellet 00 buckshot shells. That is about as good as it gets with buckshot. Before all you guys jump in with your 75yd stories, don't waste your breath with me. I've been there and I know you wound more than you kill. :grin: IMHO of course, Byron

LMM · « **Reply #3 on:** October 12, 2004, 11:31:59 PM »

Open up the chokes. The best patterns I've gotten with buchshot was in Imp Cylinder.

MGMorden · « **Reply #4 on:** October 18, 2004, 07:42:52 AM »

Buckshot can behave "weird" in some guns. Try out some different chokes. I actually just bought a new gun yesterday actually, and had it out patterning with buckshot (we do a lot of dog driving for deer around here, where buckshot is the only legal load). With the new gun (a Charles Daly Maxi-Mag pump), with a modified choke, it would'nt touch the paper at 30 yards. This was with a standard 2.75" 00 load. Not a pellet in the paper. Took out my 870 Express with modified choke, same loads, 5 out of 9 pellets in at 30 yards. Took out my father's 870 Wingmaster with a fixed full-choke barrel, and 6 pellets out of 9 at 30 yards. The thing is, the that Charles Daly didn't pattern too bad with steel shot when I tried those. It'll likely get some action come duck season, but I'll not be going deer hunting with it any time soon.

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #5 on:** October 20, 2004, 08:29:35 PM »

Shotguns, even of the same choke marking, can vary wildly in what they will handle. Most IC and Mod chokes handle #1 buck fairly well and that load gives the best combination of pellet count and penetration, imho.

I consider the 9 pellet 00 buck load obsolete. There just ain't no point in giving up three pellets to save a buck on the box.

One that does get overlooked is the buffered 000. It only has 8 pellets to the load, but what you give up on pellet count, you more than get back in pellet weight and penetration. You also sometimes get some pretty amazing patterns from the open chokes.

That paper plate test strikes me as pretty sensible. On deer, you need multiple hits on the vital area to take a deer down reliably.

Oldtimer · « **Reply #6 on:** October 21, 2004, 02:37:44 PM »

I have seen a number of studies of the effectiveness of buckshot and shot a series myself , trying to figure what to use in shotgun-only areas and close-up hog encounters. I tried shooting a 9 inch paper plate at 30 yards, since 9 inches is about the size of the vital area of an average whotetail or hog. Using chokes from cylinder to full, I did not find a load that consistently would put 3 pellets into the plate, in 12, 16, or 20 gauge.
Another formula that I have heard is that it takes about 140 grains to kill a deer consistently. While two-000 buck pellets ( 71 grains each) would deliver the payload, 4-number 4 buck (20 grains each) would still be way short. Even three 00 buck would be marginal ( 45 grains each). There is a company in Florida that is loading three .58 caliber balls in a 12 guage shell, and I will be getting some in a couple of weeks, and hope to try them out while I am down there. If I succeed, I will file a range report.
My considered opinion is that one should use the biggest pellets available and limit the range to less than 25 yards.

hammerless99 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 22, 2004, 06:52:36 AM »

Thanks for the response on this subject. For this season I'll use the #4B and keep my shots under 25 yrds, and point at the neck; I won't have a chance to try more load/choke combinations before the season starts but next summer I'll spend some more time at the range with it. Tomorrow in the AM I'll be on the lot to do some scouting. Because I'm so unfamiliar with the lot I doubt if I'll really have a chance at amushing a whitetail this season, this'll be the major learning curve year.

MGMorden · « **Reply #8 on:** October 25, 2004, 06:10:00 AM »

Old timer: you might want to try a different setup. With a 3" 00 load (15 pellets) my deer gun will put 6 or 7 pellets inside a 10" circle at 30yards. It can be hard to find a good buckshot gun though. The above results are with my 870 express with a modified choke. I've got a Browning A5 though you'd be lucky to put 2 pellets in the circle at that distance (tried with Modified, Improved Cyl, and Full chokes). I just bought a Charles Daly pump and several times it has failed to put ANYTHING in the circle at around 30-35 yards (the same gun doesn't do that bad with small game loads though).

That being said, you don't need that many. The first deer I ever killed was with a #3 20ga buckshot. A single #3 pellet caught the deer through the vitals. He made it about 40 yards before he fell.

fffffg · « **Reply #9 on:** October 25, 2004, 04:08:42 PM »

slugs will work much much better.. you were told that #4 buck is too small for florida deer..they are smaller than northern deer if im thinking right..noone in these posts recomended number four buck? you can shoot a deer with slugs at 5 yards or 40 yards with very good results.. it will hit or miss, a hit will do great damage if in any vital area.. it can go thru hard muscle, gristle, ribs and etc to reach these vital areas where buchshot may not.. one pellet that is a flier in a deer could cause a lot of suffering.. you probably will get twice as many shots at 35 yards as you will at 25 yards.. dave..

MGMorden · « **Reply #10 on:** October 26, 2004, 07:53:31 AM »

Quote from: fffffg

slugs will work much much better.. you were told that #4 buck is too small for florida deer..they are smaller than northern deer if im thinking right..noone in these posts recomended number four buck? you can shoot a deer with slugs at 5 yards or 40 yards with very good results.. it will hit or miss, a hit will do great damage if in any vital area.. it can go thru hard muscle, gristle, ribs and etc to reach these vital areas where buchshot may not.. one pellet that is a flier in a deer could cause a lot of suffering.. you probably will get twice as many shots at 35 yards as you will at 25 yards.. dave..

Slugs aren't always legal. Most states that allow dog driving for deer require buckshot of size 4 or greater (most people I know and hunt with use #1 or larger. I use 00 myself). Around here getting caught with a slug in your gun during a dog drive is a $460 fine :shock:. The general reason is that when dog driving 80-90% of your shots will be running shots. It's darn hard to hit a deer in the vitals with a slug if he's running. With buckshot though it's not that hard with practice. The shooting style ends up being more like bird hunting that traditional deer hunting (well, I say traditional but I was dogging for years before my father would let me still hunt). If I'm doing the single projectile thing I'll take a rifle.

DirtyHarry · « **Reply #11 on:** October 26, 2004, 06:22:59 PM »

I just wondered, how small are these deer you guy's are talking about because I wouldn't even dream of using buckshot on the deer around here, in fact in ohio it is illegal to hunt deer with buckshot. The last deer I took here was a doe last year and she field dressed at 181lbs on the check station scales...

dukkillr · « **Reply #12 on:** October 26, 2004, 07:17:11 PM »

it's illegal here in kansas too, and i'm glad personally... of course as soon as you start talking about wounding deer someone always gets indignant and declares that they've been hunting for 200 years with buckshot and never crippled a deer...

MGMorden · « **Reply #13 on:** October 27, 2004, 12:40:01 AM »

Quote from: DirtyHarry

I just wondered, how small are these deer you guy's are talking about because I wouldn't even dream of using buckshot on the deer around here, in fact in ohio it is illegal to hunt deer with buckshot. The last deer I took here was a doe last year and she field dressed at 181lbs on the check station scales...

Around here most are 100 to 150 pounds on the hoof. My father got one last year (with 00 Buckshot) that was 200 pounds on the hoof, which was the largest buck anybody had seen here in a LONG time.

dukkilr: I assume that you duck hunt based on your handle. Do you kill and retrieve every single duck you hit? Last I heard average statistics were that around 50% of ducks hit are only crippled or wounded.

dukkillr · « **Reply #14 on:** October 27, 2004, 09:08:49 AM »

no, i do not recover every duck, but i use the most lethal methods available to me, and i take recovery and suffering very seriously. I also bow and rifle hunt, and i'm very familiar with lost deer, in fact twice i've quit bowhunting for the season because of lost deer. i understand that losing deer (or ducks) is part of hunting, but i do not utilize methods that increase the possibility of a loss... and imho deer hunting with buckshot does just that... if it is absolutely the only legal method (as bowhunting is in the urban area i often hunt) then buckshot is the best option, in places where slugs or rifles are allowed i consider buckshot to be sub-optimal.

MGMorden · « **Reply #15 on:** October 27, 2004, 09:42:10 AM »

Quote from: dukkillr

and imho deer hunting with buckshot does just that... if it is absolutely the only legal method (as bowhunting is in the urban area i often hunt) then buckshot is the best option, in places where slugs or rifles are allowed i consider buckshot to be sub-optimal.

Well, as I stated earlier, it's often the type of hunting that'll make a difference. Down here we are required to use buckshot on dog drives. And actually, in this type of hunting (dog driving), buckshot IS the most effective ammo (hence the legal requirement for it. It has nothing to do with vicinity of houses). When I'm sitting in a tree then I'll always have a rifle with me, but it's neither optimal nor even legal to use that (or slugs) when dog hunting.

Buckshot does happen to be illegal for still hunting on any public land here.

gwhilikerz · « **Reply #16 on:** October 27, 2004, 11:18:14 AM »

I know practically nothing about using buckshot for deer because it is illegal here in KY, so I have no experience with it. I also know little about hunting deer with dogs since that is also illegal. I would like to try hunting with dogs sometime tho. I grew up rabbit hunting a traveling to field trials with very good beagles. I love to listen to dogs on trail. I can understand why slugs and rifle bullets would not be the best for hunting with dogs. I'll have to make my way south someday just to try that type of hunting.

Oldtimer · « **Reply #17 on:** October 28, 2004, 02:45:34 PM »

MG, You are a lucky man to have a shotgun that will shoot so well. When I did my buckshot testing, I used three 12 gauge shotguns, with multiple chokes, if available, one sixteen, and one 20 gauge gun. I shot numbers 4, 3, 2, 1, 00, and 000. I never did find a combination that suited me. That said, I did kill a doe with the 16 gauge, an old Crescent s/s that belonged to my wife's grandfather and which he had sawed off to use for rabbit hunting. I shot twice at a doe at 25 yards, and I found that 2 pellets had struck her, both in the lungs. My impression was that I had totally missed with the first shot, and connected with the second. She ran about 80 yards across a large open field before she collapsed. Had she run back into my land, she would have been nearly impossible to find, as there was no blood trail.
I only tried buckshot because the next county over is shotgun only and there are some really thick areas where I hunt. Generally, I use slugs and have not lost a deer to a slug. In Virginia, we have some counties where buckshot is the only option. They are mostly in the eastern part of the state.

reallybigfoot · « **Reply #18 on:** October 29, 2004, 01:38:43 AM »

I believe much of the poor performance of buckshot on deer comes from hunters taking shots at deer they would never take with a rifle. A running deer is considered possible by a buckshot hunter where a rifle hunter would wait for him to stop or miss entirely. A hunter must know his equipment and hunt within its limits. I have a 1971 870 with a 30 inch full choke. It will put 12 out of 12 pellets of 00 in an 8 by 11 sheet of paper at 25 yards. Most of those pellets in a 6 inch circle. It will do 6 out of 12 at 50 yards.

I prefer hunting with revolvers but in Virginia sometimes there is no choice.