Author Topic: Malfunctioning Gov't Model-any ideas? (Read 774 times)

Shaylex · « **on:** October 12, 2004, 06:08:29 PM »

I've never previously owned a 1911 style pistol. A friend has offered to sell me his stainless Colt MK IV series 80 Government Model. There is a problem with the gun. In short, even with the thumb safety engaged, the hammer will fall if the trigger is pulled. Is the problem and needed repair blatantly obvious to those of you more familiar than I with the inner workings of this style of weapon? Or is it possible that this could be caused by a number of different things? Looking forward to hearing your opinions. Thanks in advance.

Somerled · « **Reply #1 on:** October 12, 2004, 07:09:38 PM »

I'd have a pistolsmith (Colt has several authorized service agents) look at it and get an estimate of repairs before making any agreement to buy it. It may be just an improperly fitted thumb safety. But there may be some other problem as well.

Iowegan · « **Reply #2 on:** October 12, 2004, 07:22:28 PM »

Likely it is the thumb safety itself. There is a critical tolerance between the internal node on the thumb safety and the sear. When properly fit, the node blocks the sear so it will not disengage when the trigger is pulled.

Thumb safeties are available in several configurations... standard, extended, thick, thin, low mount, ambi, blue or stainless. They are all interchangable on your Colt. To remove the safety; cock the hammer and move the safety about half way between Fire and Safe. There will be a sweet spot where the safety will pull straight out. The spring and plunger will twang out of the plunger tube so make sure you contain the part.

Brownell's sells quite a few aftermarket safeties as well as the factory original Colt parts. see http://www.brownells.com

Questor · « **Reply #3 on:** October 13, 2004, 11:05:06 AM »

It's probably something simple, which could include a missing part. The series 80 has extra parts related to the safety that 1911-A1s don't have. My suspicions are:
1) Improper reassembly
2) Improper reassembly with missing part

Fortunately the parts are easy to come by if you know what you're looking for. But then, so are used 1911s that don't malfunction. I'd steer away from any basket case that's apparently been worked on by a shadetree mechanic who was too cheap to buy a video or book that explains proper reassembly. However, if the price was dirt cheap (under $300), I'd consider it. (and then I'd only buy it to fix it and sell it at a profit.)

The series 80 is less desirable for any target game because of the inferior trigger mechanism.

If you buy it, also buy the Wilson Combat video on disassembly, lubrication, and reassembly. It shows you the right way to do it.

Great strides in manufacturing have been made since the now-obsolete series 80 was built, and today's 1911s are much better. There are good reasons why Colt makes almost nothing for the consumer market today, and why the series 80 safety mechanism is not found on new 1911s.

I see more 1911 horror stories related to genuine Colt 1911s that all the others combined.

Gee. I didn't realize I had such a strong opinion about them.

Questor · « **Reply #4 on:** October 13, 2004, 11:07:13 AM »

P.S. Sorry to be so negative, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Iowegan · « **Reply #5 on:** October 13, 2004, 06:23:45 PM »

Questor, Obviously you haven't watched the video tapes or read the books you spoke of. The Series 80 parts have absolutely nothing to do with Shaylex's Colt safety problem.

The Colt Series 80 guns are some of the best ever produced. I defy you to feel the difference in my Series 80 SS Commander and any other 1911, other than mine probably has a lighter and crisper pull (3.5 lbs, no creep, very crisp). These are excellent guns and are very sought-after by serious shooters. Yes, they're very accurate too! Like most other guns, the triggers aren't that great out-of-the-box. A few minutes spent on deburring and polishing parts makes them great. My Commander has over 10,000 rounds through it and I can count the malfunctions on one hand, and those were from bad ammo.

FYI, the Series 80 parts are two bellcranks, one on the sear pin, the other on the hammer pin. When the trigger is pulled, the bow of the trigger pushes on the lower bellcrank, in-turn pushes the upper bell crank that pushes a spring loaded firing pin disconnect in the slide. This mechanism prevents the gun from shooting unless the trigger is all the way to the rear. It has nothing to do with the thumb safety function.

I suggest you do your homework before slamming someones gun.

Questor · « **Reply #6 on:** October 14, 2004, 02:30:39 AM »

Sorry, but I think the jury's back on the series 80 issue. They may be OK for defense and plinking, but they're rejected as target guns. If they were so good, the design would have endured. It didn't. Of course I haven't paid attention to the series 80 reassembly training. I don't need it.

Iowegan · « **Reply #7 on:** October 14, 2004, 09:29:11 AM »

Questor, I don't know where you get your information but it's obviously not from credible sources.

The Series 80 trigger components including the sear, disconnector, hammer, and the trigger itself are all identical and interchangable with a standard 1911 or Series 70 colt.

ediehaskell · « **Reply #8 on:** October 14, 2004, 06:25:21 PM »

While everyone else here is argueing minutiea, go offer the guy a lot less than what he wants, and dicker. Tell him you know it's going to cost you a fortune to get it fixed, and you don't want to be out too much. Take it home, fix it, or have it fixed. It really won't cost much. Or just get it, and send it to me.

Sheesh, some guys try to make everthing too hard!

Shaylex · « **Reply #9 on:** October 14, 2004, 07:43:11 PM »

Gentleman, thank you for your input thus far.

ediehaskell, the price offered by the seller is quite reasonable if I can fix the gun without investing a lot of extra cash. From the start, I hoped that the problem may be something minor that could be remedied cheaply. The seller is a very good friend of mine (he was my best man when I got married, in fact) who is need of a little cash right now for a project he's working on. He also knows that this is a gun I've wanted for some time. If I don't buy it, there is a very good chance that he won't even sell it. He's not looking to give it away for a fraction of it's actual worth and I don't wish to take advantage of him.

Mikey · « **Reply #10 on:** October 15, 2004, 02:37:51 AM »

Shaylex - get another thumb safety, they are inexpensive. You can install it yourself or your friend can help you install it. It is not a major job. HTH. Mikey.