best budget 8x bino

[DIVR6347]

hi all
i need help with finding a field grade budget bino for a gift for my in law
who happens to be my hunting buddy
i hunt with kahles 8x42s or leica 8x42 bn s and love them both
but my in law hunts with $20 bushnell porros  
i looked thru them and couldnt see squat !!  too hard to focus and real real
dark  so anyway
were going to spring for a step up in 8x either 8x32 or 42 for a christmas gift for him
the budget is $150 max   so which does everyone feel will get the job done in that price range   we hunt mostly wooded areas but look off our
cabin deck quite often  
i was thinking maybe
nikon sporter 1 or something along those lines  feel free to throw in any other choices and where i might get a good deal on them
thanks all
divr6347    

[hkg3k]

Easy.  Check out the Tasco EXP series 8x42 binocs on closeout at CDNN investments.  EXP was Tasco's top of the line and compare favorably to any glass I've looked through including the high-dollar european stuff.  They are roof prism and fit nicely into your budget.  Here is the link:

http://cdnninvestments.com/tas8xexproof.html

Hope this helps.  Can't say enough about the quality and clarity of these binocs, regardless of price.

[TheOpticZone]

Another one that is not to bad is the Leupold Mesa 8x42's.  For under $150, they are clear and bright.

[jackfish]

I second the Wind River Mesas.  You will be happy with them for what you spend.  I don't believe the Tasco EXP roof prism is phase-corrected, a good porro prism for $150 would be better.

[hkg3k]

I second the Wind River Mesas.  You will be happy with them for what you spend.  I don't believe the Tasco EXP roof prism is phase-corrected, a good porro prism for $150 would be better.

Point taken.  The Tasco Exp's (Extreme Performance) are not p-coated, but are fully multi-coated.  The Mesas on the other hand are not fully multi-coated.

Having said that, if you tell me that the Mesas are "good glass" and I know the Exp's are "good glass," I'm not sure how much the above matters other than being bullet points on a spec sheet.  One difference which does matter to me (and probably most hunters) is the Exp's are rated waterproof and the Mesas are not.

I do know this for certain.  My eyes can tell the difference between "good glass" and mediocre.  I've looked through high-dollar Zeiss' and the Exp's side by side.  I honestly could not tell a difference.  The conditiions were mid-day and clear.  If the conditions were different, maybe then could I have seen a difference.  Maybe.

Here is a link to a binocular round-up review by Outdoor Life:

http://www.outdoorlife.com/outdoor/gear/article/0,19912,264264,00.html

The Exp's rated well (and in a lot of cases better) in the company of binoculars which cost well in excess of what the you can now pick up Exp's, making them an outstanding value.  The reviewers did not like the Exp's non-locking eye cups, which could be a nuisance, but easily fixed.

For $100, it would be hard for DIVR6347 to go wrong with the Exp's.

[jackfish]

The Leupold literature for the Wind River Mesas is in error by omission.  It says the lenses are multicoated, it just leaves out that all lenses are.  Call or email Leupold Product Service and ask if the Wind River Mesa is fully multicoated and they will assure you that all lens surfaces are multicoated.  Also the hunting optics portion of their website omits they are waterproof.  The Wind River Mesas are correctly designated by Leupold on the birding portion of their website and in their brochure as 100% waterproof.  So, the fact is that the Wind River Mesa is fully multicoated and waterproof.

All that said, I agree the Tasco EXP might be a good value for DIVR6347, that is until something goes wrong with them as Bushnell will not honor the EXP Tasco warranty.  The extra $45 for the Wind River Mesas would be worth it to get the limited lifetime warranty.  Getting $100 binoculars instead of better ones for $145 to save some money won't do you any good if you can't get them fixed if something goes wrong. Best price on the Wind River Mesa 8x42mm.  But I bet Jon would match it.

[hkg3k]

The Leupold literature for the Wind River Mesas is in error by omission.  It says the lenses are multicoated, it just leaves out that all lenses are.  Call or email Leupold Product Service and ask if the Wind River Mesa is fully multicoated and they will assure you that all lens surfaces are multicoated.  Also the hunting optics portion of their website omits they are waterproof.  The Wind River Mesas are correctly designated by Leupold on the birding portion of their website and in their brochure as 100% waterproof.  So, the fact is that the Wind River Mesa is fully multicoated and waterproof.

All that said, I agree the Tasco EXP might be a good value for DIVR6347, that is until something goes wrong with them as Bushnell will not honor the EXP Tasco warranty.  The extra $45 for the Wind River Mesas would be worth it to get the limited lifetime warranty.  Getting $100 binoculars instead of better ones for $145 to save some money won't do you any good if you can't get them fixed if something goes wrong. Best price on the Wind River Mesa 8x42mm.  But I bet Jon would match it.

The error of omission is odd.  Leupold makes certain you know their more expensive models have the features, but for some reason leave out that information on the less expensive models where the consumer would be looking for those features to differentiate from like-priced competitors.  If anything, one would think it would be the otherway around.  Interesting.

I guess we will just have to disagree........I would rather have a better pair of binoculars for $100, than a more expensive pair from the golden ring just to have a name and a warranty I'll never access.

[jackfish]

Assuming the Tasco EXP binoculars offer a better view than the Wind River Mesas you may be right.  But, the Tasco EXP does not.  The Wind River Mesa has a view comparable to the highly regarded Wind River Olympic roof prism (phase-corrected) binoculars.  The Olympics simply blow the Tasco EXP out of the water.  Hence, the Mesas do also, so I also agree to disagree.

The Outdoor Life reviewers said of the Tasco EXP, "Its resolution of 5.8 SOA is about as sharp as any non-P-coated, roof-prism binocular can be."  If one understands optics, this is an admission that this glass will fall short of most midrange porro prism binoculars.

I wonder why Tasco dropped the Titan and EXP lines?

[hkg3k]

Assuming the Tasco EXP binoculars offer a better view than the Wind River Mesas you may be right.  But, the Tasco EXP does not.  The Wind River Mesa has a view comparable to the highly regarded Wind River Olympic roof prism (phase-corrected) binoculars.  The Olympics simply blow the Tasco EXP out of the water.  Hence, the Mesas do also, so I also agree to disagree.

The Outdoor Life reviewers said of the Tasco EXP, "Its resolution of 5.8 SOA is about as sharp as any non-P-coated, roof-prism binocular can be."  If one understands optics, this is an admission that this glass will fall short of most midrange porro prism binoculars.

I wonder why Tasco dropped the Titan and EXP lines?

If Wind River p-coated roofs blow the Exp's out of the water, I wonder why that wasn't spelled out for us in the Outdoor Life article?  Read the write-up for the the Wind River P1s in that article........"A little unsharp around the edges of the field."  "Pretty good value."  Certainly not stellar words, and no better than the Exp, although the P1s rate well too.......at more than 3x what you can now pick up the Exp's for.

As far as resolution is concerned, please point us in the direction of Leupold's numbers.

Here's another comparison where the Wind Rivers p-coated P1 roofs rate no better than the Exps:

http://www.outdoorlife.com/outdoor/gear/comparison/0,20341,binoculars,00.html

And once again, the Exps are SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper.

[jackfish]

I know what my eyes tell me and I haven't seen any deterioration of the view at the edges on the Wind River Olympics, which have followed the Wind River P1.  We are talking about $45 for a view in the Wind River Mesas comparable to the Wind River Olympic.  Not 3 times the price of the Trashco EXP.

http://betterviewdesired.com/10-02/leupold.html

The matrix you show is obviously highly subjective, compares apple and oranges, and is obviously worthless.  It rates the Nikon Venturer LX 8x32mm the same as the Tasco EXP.  There is no comparison between them and they cannot objectively be given the same rating.

The only way to compare binoculars is with your own eyes, properly focused and stacked so you can go quickly between pairs resolving difficult targets under varying conditions, certainly not from a chart put together by many different eyes, viewing too many different kinds of binoculars and over too long of a period.

I believe your are right, the operative word is CHEAPER when talking about the Tasco EXP.

cheaper:
Of or considered of small value
Of poor quality; inferior
Worthy of no respect
Relatively low in cost; inexpensive or comparatively inexpensive

[hkg3k]

I know what my eyes tell me and I haven't seen any deterioration of the view at the edges on the Wind River Olympics, which have followed the Wind River P1.  We are talking about $45 for a view in the Wind River Mesas comparable to the Wind River Olympic.  Not 3 times the price of the Trashco EXP.

http://betterviewdesired.com/10-02/leupold.html

The matrix you show is obviously highly subjective, compares apple and oranges, and is obviously worthless.  It rates the Nikon Venturer LX 8x32mm the same as the Tasco EXP.  There is no comparison between them and they cannot objectively be given the same rating.

The only way to compare binoculars is with your own eyes, properly focused and stacked so you can go quickly between pairs resolving difficult targets under varying conditions, certainly not from a chart put together by many different eyes, viewing too many different kinds of binoculars and over too long of a period.

I believe your are right, the operative word is CHEAPER when talking about the Tasco EXP.

Then I might suggest

A:  You actually look through a pair of Exp's
B:  Apply as a staff writer to Outdoor Life and correct these travesty of comparisons OL has brought to us.

Because you have not looked through them, you made comparisons based on the "charts."  Well, the Exp's "chart out" as well, and now you're back to "well my eyes tell me this" and the "charts are wrong."

You see we're back to my original premise.  The Exp's are "good glass" and because of Tasco's misfortunes are no longer produced.  The Exp's can be had now for a fraction of their original purchase price, which makes for quite a deal.

I'm not here lauding the Exp's as the best.  But given their current pricing, they are an excellent VALUE.   As I said give them a look-see, you might be so surprised you'll want to send me $50 for the tip.  :grin:

[Naphtali]

The obvious place you overlooked is military surplus optics from countries that recently joined NATO.

Deutsche Optik sells Czech and other recently manufactured porro prismed binoculars 6x and 8x30. These will have individually focusing eye pieces (more durable than central focusing) and some sort of mil scale reticle in right barrel that functions as range finder.

Binoculars manufactured by Zeiss-Jena or on equipment furnished by DDR Zeiss-Jena and using Schott optical glass will be excellent values.

The last time I checked -- about a month ago -- Czech binoculars were selling for about $90.

[lurcher]

Another vote for the wind river mesa porro's 8X42. I bought a pair and find them very good. I hunt with a guy who uses an older pair of Zeiss classic 10X50's and the mesa's measure up, the mesa's aren't quite as sharp but  hold out well as dusk falls and are huge value for money.