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Offline DAD

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100 yard
« on: October 16, 2004, 06:56:44 AM »
Would a .243  do the job at 100 yards over bait with proper bullets. I'm talking factory ammo no hand loads.
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Offline Cabin4

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100 yard
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2004, 12:30:18 PM »
On a small black bear, yes. Say 200ish lb's or less. However, this caliber is really pushing the low end of acceptability on black bear. I can tell you that many outfitters would not allow a 243 for bear.
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Offline Lawdog

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100 yard
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2004, 12:54:29 PM »
DAD,

Let me put it this way.  You use the .243 and shoot the bear but it runs into the brush.  REMEMBER that it's that very same .243 you are going to have in your hands when you follow said wounded bear.  Now do you really want to use a caliber that is marginal at best?  Lawdog
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Offline oso45-70

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Bear hunting
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2004, 01:35:04 PM »
DAD,
I respectfully advise you not to undertake shooting any size bear with a 243win. There are too many things that can go wrong and its hard to fix a mess up. Chances are you could kill a bear with this caliber gun but why take a chance of wounding the bear and having to go after it.
Good luck.........Joe.........
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Offline DAD

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100 yard
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2004, 05:47:58 PM »
I thought I would ask, I'm leaning towards 7mm-08 or 308 for my choice. I'm concered about recoil. I have shot the 7mm-08 in my Handi-rifle and I don't mind it. I have not shot the 308 and want to make sure I don't get too much of a rifle in the recoil deptartment. I want one to get the job done and won't cause me to flinch. I have shot 270 and 30-06 and I realy don't like the recoil.
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Offline Sourdough

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100 yard
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2004, 10:26:23 PM »
Fellows I'm sorry, but I have a hard time trying to understand why a grown man would want to use a varmit cartridge for bear simply because he's afraid of recoil.  My son started shooting a 45-70 for bear at the age of ten.  My 4'11" 95lb wife uses a 30-06 or .35 Whelen, for all her hunting.  During the fall I carry a .338Win Mag, the rest of the year I carry a 30-06 for varmits.  None of these guns have a brake.  I'm a shooting instructor, and when the kids are ready to move up from a .22RF, I start them with a .308.  Out of a couple of hundred kids none have ever complained about recoil from the .308s.  These kids usually range in age from 12 to 16 years of age.  They do admit that it gets their attention, but since they know the proper way to hold a firearm, it does not hurt them.

Remember it's your ethical responsiability to use a cartridge capable of making a clean kill, even if you don't do your part to the best degree.
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Offline talon

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100 yard
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2004, 03:24:12 AM »
Fear of recoil is a learned thing. A poor stock design and shooting stance, among other things, can easily lead to this situation.  It may be that DAD isn't aware of this, and believes it's only the cartridge's fault. Most of us who grew up with firearms know this, but sometimes forget that 80% of our country's population are firearms ignorant in more than just political ways. 8)
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Offline Lawdog

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100 yard
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2004, 09:07:32 AM »
DAD,

Is your fear of flinching due to a physical problem?  If it is just due to a fear of recoil I can make a couple of suggestions.  First is the NEF Handi Rifles only weights 7 pounds without scope and sling and the 7mm-08 it will have 16 - 17 pounds of free recoil.  Also have the pull checked to make sure the stock fits you.  The Handi Rifle has 14 1/4” of pull which is about 3/4” more then many standard bolt action rifles.  Finely make sure your rifle has a good recoil pad, like the Decelerator(my personal choice), and I would install a good mercury recoil reducer(C&H Research is the brand I use) in the butt stock.  Small groups and tight lines to you.  Lawdog
 :D
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Offline DAD

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« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2004, 08:06:19 PM »
I have never had anyone to help me with caliber to use for what type of game. One of the reasons I bought the H&R single shot was to experiment with different calibers to see what I liked and disliked before I bought a bolt action. In that department I'm leaning towards the Savage. The two I have narrowed down to is the 7mm-08 and the 308. Some of the reasons for me starting a subject is to get experience hunters to show positive comments and there experiences.  Yes, my eye has been blackened by a Good Old Boy who thought it was funny for a 16 year old  to get close to the scope for a good clear picture.  My experiences have been with the 30-06, 30-30,270,7mm-08,243,7.62x51[308 M14] Navy vet. No physical problem just my mind.
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Offline critter killr

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100 Yard
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2004, 05:26:53 AM »
DAD         I would choose the 7mm-08 over the 308. I have started kids as young as 6 on it, and they managed to keep their shots under 1 1/2 at 100 yds. My family has used it to take 15 black bears over the years here in S E Alaska. I have quite a few friends who use them as well ! One is a 7mag fan! It's a better all around rifle than the 243. I have seen bears shot with a 243, one was lost and the other was finally recovered!  They were both shot at about 100yds. With 100 gr bullets and yes they were hit where they are supposed to be!  I  have taken quite a few bears at 300 yds , with one shot. The load is a 120 nosler ballistic tip at 3000 fps. Thats the load we all shoot for deer and bear, haven't run in to a moose during the season but it'll do the job!! The 120 ballistic tip will do the job even when hitting the shoulder. A friend took his grandson to africa a few years ago. the kid used a 7mm-08 to take 7 animals all one shot kills. He used 140 Barnes X Bullets.
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Offline Gowge

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BEAR HUNTING CALIBERS
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2004, 06:57:09 AM »
DAD, from one ol' Vet to another - if you could manage the M14 when you were in the Military, you can sure handle a 30-06.   We're talkin' 90% chance, it's just gonna' be a one shot deal anyhow.  By the time you're ready to leave a stand, any pain will be the least of your concerns!   The main advantage to using a 30-06, is the great variety of loads available right now!  ;)  

For deer hunting, you can get the new Remington "Managed Recoil" loads and they won't recoil any more than the .243 or 7mm-08.    They use light bullets pushed by light loads.  

When it comes to bear hunting, you can get the standard 30-06 Remington Express loads with a heavy bullet, or Hornady 30-06 Light Magnums that deliver a 165gr bullet almost as hard as a 300 Short Magnum.  

Inside your 100 yard range, any of the heavy bullet 30-06 loads would be ideal for black bear.    

GRIZZ IS WHOLE 'NOTHER MATTER....  

YOU CAN DO IT!  GOOD LUCK!   :D
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Offline Sourdough

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100 yard
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2004, 11:24:07 AM »
Dad:  I'm sorry I get a little brash sometimes.  I own upwards to 40 different guns, ranging from .338Win Mag down.  I own semi-autos, pumps, bolts, lever guns, and single shots.  For the last three years I have only carried single shots.  During the fall hunting season (August & September) I carry a TCR in .338 mag, not to kill Moose and Caribou, a 30-06 does that just fine, but in case I run into a Grizzly I want to be sure I have enough gun.  The rest of the year I carry a NEF Handi in 30-06.  The 30-06 is adequate for anything in North America, but I feel it's marginal for the big bears here in Alaska.  
 
When my 76yr old Dad came up to hunt Moose a few years ago, I discovered he did not know how to shoot a high powered rifle.  Dad had never hunted anything larger than squirrels and rabbits.  My Dad was one of the best marksmen I knew with a .22LR.  But he had never shot a high powered rifle and was really concerned about recoil.  I had to take him to the range and teach him how to shoot differently.  Once he learned proper technique he really enjoyed my .35 Whelen Handi.  He took that gun out and shot a 54" Moose.  
 
Basically what I'm trying to say is, it does not matter how big the gun is, take it out and shoot it.  Start off with a few shots the first time then increase it.  Practise, practise, and more practise.  Then one day you will realise you don't notice the recoil, you're just concentrating on the shot.  Now I'm not saying go get a .460 Weatherby, or a 416, let's be reasonable.  But anything from a .35Whelen, 30-06, 308, 7mm08, or anything comparable should be just fine.   Remember to role it into the pocket of your shoulder, and use the left hand (if your right handed) to pull it back into the shoulder firm.  Then concentrate on the gentle trigger squeeze.  Good Luck!  Rog
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Offline Lawdog

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100 yard
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2004, 02:12:53 PM »
DAD,

Go with either of your choices in a Savage bolt action.  If you are going to be doing a lot of Black Bear hunting then go with .308.  Forget those new Remington "Managed Recoil" loads as the book is not in on them yet and early reports are questionable at best.  Lawdog :D
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Offline Gowge

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30-06 Managed Recoil vs 30-30 Winchester
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2004, 05:50:55 PM »
DAD, the 30-06 Managed Recoil (125gr) loads offer more velocity and more energy at any range than the old reliable and proven 30-30 load with a 150gr bullet, along with LESS recoil!  WIN-WIN!  

Compare the ballistics yourself, and while you're at it, check out the 243  too.   The 30-06 Managed Recoil loads are superior to either one...  It gives you over 2000fps @ 200 yards & well over half a ton of energy - plenty for any deer if you put the bullet in the vitals.

http://www.remington.com/ammo/ballistics/ballistics.htm

GOOD LUCK!   :D
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Offline DAD

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100 yard
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2004, 06:04:01 PM »
I will like to thank everyone for there responses. I will stay with standard factory loads for hunting.  Please everyone don't worry I have no death wish! I always look for the middle of the road in calibers. I believe I have found that with the 7mm-08 and the 308. I might be getting the 308 because ammo is easer to find. Sourdough It OK you are just passionate about what you believe in WE ARE OK AT THIS END.
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Offline DAD

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New rifle
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2004, 04:26:10 PM »
I thought I would let everyone know that I bought SAVAGE 11GNS in 308. I mounted my Leupold 3x9x40 and Millet Rings and weaver bases. I went with the 308 because I could find ammo rather easy.
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Offline Lawdog

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100 yard
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2004, 12:18:54 PM »
DAD,

Great choice.  Let us know how it works for you.  Lawdog
 :D
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Offline DAD

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100 yard
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2004, 03:03:56 PM »
When I went to the range and got the rifle sighted in my last 3 groups of 3 shots each were 11/2" and I'm well pleased. Has I get use to the rifle and over my flinching I expect the groups to go down.  To be honest I can't feel the difference in recoil between 7mm-08 and the 308.
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