Author Topic: Controlled Round Feed vs. Push Feed mystery (Read 822 times)

Questor · « **on:** October 18, 2004, 06:12:34 AM »

My understanding is that a push feed rifle will not chamber when upside down or at odd angles. I tested this with one particular gun, a Remington 700 Safari in 375 h&h. I could not get it to fail. I turned it at all angles, shook it, banged the recoil pad on the shooting bench while chambering a round in the upside down or canted gun, and tried in a determined fashion to get it to fail to feed. This was with a single round in the magazine or a full magazine.

I couldn't get it to fail to feed. What am I misunderstanding here?

I did find that short stroking was a possibility. As a personal habit, I first stroke the bolt back until I feel the bolt stop, then push forward. It's part of repetitive practice specifically to minimize the possibility of a short stroke.

I would like any of your comments regarding techniques that make bolt action rifles as reliable as possible. Thank you.

crow_feather · « **Reply #1 on:** October 18, 2004, 12:25:34 PM »

I wonder if the caliber of the rifle makes any difference? What caliber were you using?

C F

Con · « **Reply #2 on:** October 18, 2004, 10:04:57 PM »

Questor,
Shhh! Don't want to upset people now do you? :eek: Seriously though, your findings are exactly the same as mine, it's very difficult in my hands to jam up a PF, but my CRFs are another matter entirely. People harp on the Remington extractor but I've never had one fail, although ejection can be poor if the spring is tired. My gunsmith is a "guru" when it comes to putting together DGR's, and he would not consider putting together a DGR on a PF unless the customer absolutely insisted. But... he also admits that he's has less trouble over the years with PFs compared to CRFs. However, properly set up, and that's where the dollars come into it, the CRF is a more reliable design. I also believe that caliber does have a part to play in the equation as the 375H&H feeds like silk, but the 458s I've had (on CRFs) had given intermittent trouble over the years. Most disconcerting was a perfectly reliable rifle that all of a sudden decided to stop feeding from the left side of the magazine.
Cheers...
Con

Lawdog · « **Reply #3 on:** October 19, 2004, 11:30:22 AM »

Questor,

Why not try making up a few "dummy" rounds, for safety reasons, and stick a fired round in the chamber. Now short stroke your rifle, like it can happen during the wrong times, and see what happens. Doing this has jammed up many a good PF rifle in the past. I tried it with one of my Rem. M700's and it jammed. Lawdog

Questor · « **Reply #4 on:** October 19, 2004, 12:49:28 PM »

Thanks for the tip, Lawdog. I'll give it a try. As a precaution, with all bolt actions, I pull the bolt back until I feel it stop and then push forward. Other information I've gotten said that PFs will often jam while running and chambering a new cartridge. I haven't been able to get this to fail, but it's noteworthy. Other complaints, particularly with the Rem 700 is the weak extractor, or related springs that are prone to go bad.

Lawdog · « **Reply #5 on:** October 20, 2004, 12:54:25 PM »

Questor,

It is a well known fact that the extractor on newer M700's are weak. There is a cure for this by removing the extractor and replacing it with one from Sako. Many a gunsmith has preformed this fix. Lawdog

Questor · « **Reply #6 on:** October 21, 2004, 03:24:54 AM »

FINALLY, AN ANSWER THAT MAKES SENSE:, FROM ACCURATERELOADING.COM...

Folks tend to mis-interpret things.

The old saying has nothing to do with push-feeds being upside down. It refers to the 98 Mauser being designed to function at any angle, under any circumstances (for military purposes). Someone interpreted this to mean that push-feeds won't work as such. They are wrong.

The biggest problem with push-feeds is that they can be double fed with the barrel pointing down . Point the barrel downwards and start feeding a round. Then pull the bolt back and let gravity drop the round into the chamber. Now push the bolt forward and strip another cartridge from the mag. If you don't think this can happen, try it while running, sweating and pissing your pants.

The reason push-feeds are more accurate is strictly coincidence. The same cost-cutting that did away with the claw extractor is the very same cost-cutting that made the bottom of the receiver round and easier to bed into a stock.

As for extraction, the 98 gets its power from the fact that it is self locking. The harder you pull rearwards, the more it grips the rim. Anything shy of this a sham on the consumer, claw or not. I put the 98 and CZ in one category, and everything else in another.