Slug question

[MIdeerhunter]

Okay, since i have a rifled 12 ga. barrel i was under the impression that i could only use sabot slugs is this true?...will rifled ones ruin the barrel? also i just bought 6 boxes of brenneke k.o....it says for use in rifled or smooth barrels...is this really okay to use?

[mjbgalt]

most people say not to since it can lead the bore. but i dont see how it is any different than shooting a muzzleloader ball down a rifled barrel.

-Matt

[HuntenNut]

They will work ok, just will take a lot of work to clean up the lead fouling.

Muzzleloaders use a lubricant which softens the fouling, but then, with the powder, theres a lot more fouling to deal with.

You won't get the peak performance available from those slugs, however.

You might want to try some Lightfields. They are relatively inexpensive and offer good performance.

[MSP Ret]

Try them before you dismiss them. The Brennekes are great slugs which are made a bit undersize, the attached plastic or heavy felt wad at the rear is what contains the pressure and hot gasses. If they say rifled or smoothbore they mean it. They will work fine and will not lead your rifled barrel like a Foster style slug will (a regular hollowpoint slug)....<><.... :grin:

[HuntenNut]

MSP Ret,

I was looking at those MP's you are always raving about. What would you say is the effective range for them with a rifled barrel? I can't find any ballistics info anywheres.

I am going to stick with the "premium" stuff for my Ultra Slug which is effective to 150+yds with some of the better sabots, but I may want to try out some "cheapies" for my Tracker 2.

I use the Ultra Slug on opening day for stand hunting on a good ridge that I have, and its a good 125yds to the opposite ridge. I have shot deer ridge to ridge from that spot as they run away from the other hunters on opening day. They never know I'm there on that opposite ridge.

I am, however, interested in cheaper ammo for the Tracker 2 which I will probably carry for still hunting through the rest of the season. I would still like to have a reasonable 100yd capable load.

[Gowge]

Okay, since i have a rifled 12 ga. barrel i was under the impression that i could only use sabot slugs is this true?...will rifled ones ruin the barrel? also i just bought 6 boxes of brenneke k.o....it says for use in rifled or smooth barrels...is this really okay to use?

Deerhunter, be careful using the soft lead slugs in your rifled barrel.  Like the other guys suggested, the soft lead can cause problems.  The ONLY full bore slugs I know of that are made of bullet alloy for use in fully rifled barrels are the Dixie Slugs - Terminator (750gr!) and Predator (653gr).   These hard cast lead slugs are quenched in cold water when they drop from the mold and then tempered hard before they're tumbled in DRY Moly Lube - then loaded in the shells.    The Terminator is only available in a 3" shell, while the Predator is also available in a 2¾" shell.   Notice that both are designed with a crimp groove and a lube groove - just like a bullet, so you can order them to load your own if you wish.

http://www.dixieslugs.com/dixieslug.html

http://www.dixieslugs.com/predator.html



GOOD LUCK!  

[MSP Ret]

Huntennut, The MP's I like so much are actually made by Brenneke-Rottwiel. As I understand it, Brenneke-Rottwiel is a breakaway from the original Brenneke company which uses real Brenneke slugs in the ammo they load and is authorized to use the name. You can research them on the web. The MP's actually shoot a bit better in my smooth bore with the red dot than my rifled tracker and I will confidently use them to 100 yards. possibly 125 max but they group great for hunting deer at up to 100 yards....<><.... :grin:

[MIdeerhunter]

Will it ruin the gun or harm it?...i can live with cleaning it...i just don't wanna wreck the gun

[MSP Ret]

no, it will not hurt the gun at all....<><.... :grin:

[HuntenNut]

MSP,

I found their website. Seems to indicate they are for smoothbore and not for rifled barrels. What kind of groups are you getting out of your rifled barrel tracker? I have the Tracker set up with the scope mount from Ed, so I must use it this year. Maybe I'll send in my Pardner for next year after I get the Topper Deluxe Classic to replace it as my rabbit/squirrel gun.

[MSP Ret]

I have a box in front of me right now, it says on the top flap "Original-BRENNEKE-Slug M.P. specifically developed for both smooth and rifled barrels."
These are Rottwiel Brenneke M.P. 12 gauge, 2 3/4" 1 oz 12/70, 28,4 g..

I don't remember exactly what the groups were out of the rifled tracker 2 but I was not impressed, they do better out of my smoothbore. If I do my part I can shoot cloverleafs at 40-50 yards off a bench with my red dot or a scope....

I say 40 as well as 50 because I used to sight in my hunting shotguns at 40 yards since it is the furthest I ever shot a deer in Maine, as you can tell I usually hunt the thick stuff. Even when I break out into the open I usually see deer close in the green growth....

I now sight the H&R in at 50 because I easily can and at the range at the club the target frames are usually left up at those ranges. The guys are supposed to put them away each time they use them but usually they don't....<><.... :grin:

[MIdeerhunter]

would it hurt the gun if you fired full bore forster sized slugs out of it? What would be the difference between those and the k.o.'s i just don't wanna wreck my gun at all...

[Busta]

MIdeerhunter,

You CAN shoot ANY slug out of your rifled barrel, however you will need a good lead removing solvent, a brass bore brush, and LOTS of elbow grease if you shoot soft lead Foster slugs. The Brenneke-Rotweil MP slugs are harder lead with a plastic wad attached to the base that fills the bore and seals the gases from escaping around the slug and do a wonderful job for a full bore slug. These slugs also have a very sharp leading edge on the rifling that actually cuts a hole instead of plowing a hole like a soft lead foster. You can find these on sale for about $2.00 a box of 5 or under $4.00 regular price if you shop around.

http://www.dnrws.com/rottweil.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ROTTWEIL BRENNEKE MP - the 1 oz (440 grs) Original BRENNEKE slug cal. 12
  The new Rottweil BRENNEKE MP cartridge with our all around/all purpose slug designed for use in smooth or rifled barrels.
First choice for the modern hunter.  
Utilizing the patented filler wad design (US Patent #4,913,056) provides the new 12 gauge 1 oz. slug with the following advantages. Usable in rifled or smooth barrels - ALL-PURPOSE  
Usable with any choke  
Deep penetration, little or no defomation of the slug  
Extremely high knock down power  
Excellent accuracy  
Priced competitively  


Brenneke MP 12 GA 2-3/4"
  The all-new 12-gauge, 2 3/4" Brenneke MP slugs are built tough enough, accurate enough and with enough put-'em-in-the-freezer power for the really big, bad game you're after. These new slugs aren't wimpy little things wrapped in shiny plastic sabots with energies that peter out in a few yards. Nor do we gouge out game-stopping lead into a hollow point that merely takes away from striking energy. Brenneke MP slugs are the solid, no-nonsense stuff you plan your hunting trips around. Brenneke MP slugs shoot straight and group tight, downrange, where it counts. The distinctive rounded nose delivers arrow-true aerodynamics, and 12 deep ribs guide it out of the barrel and into your target without any fuss. Then, too, there's the patented Power Wad to tame the firing sequence and work like a plane's tail section in flight.
  Looking for top performance and top economy from your 12 gauge, 2 3/4 smoothbore? You won't find a better, more accurate slug than the all-new Brenneke MP.
 
"1 OZ All-Purpose Slug" Distance (yds.)  Velocity (ft./sec.)  Energy 1 oz.(ft./lbs.)  
Muzzle  1510  2152
25  1300  1640
50  1135 1250
75 1030 1025
100  950 890
PRODUCT CODE  DESCRIPTION UNIT  SUGGESTED RETAIL
  211 5514  12 Ga. Brenneke Rifle Slugs Load (2 3/4, 1 oz.) 5  $6.70
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I were you I would get a box each of Remington Premier Ultra CorLokt, Remington Copper Solid, Winchester Partition Gold, Winchester Platinum Tips, Federal/Barnes Expander, Hornady H2K or any of the other saboted slugs and see which ones shoot good. Just remember that just because they shoot good on paper, it is not necessarily the best choice for performance on game. I personally do not like any of the "Hour Glass" shaped slugs and the "OLD" Remington Copper Solid slugs performance on deer sized game. I have had to track deer farther with lung hits and those types of slugs than any other type.

I personally like the NEW high performance 1900 FPS slugs, they have a real flat trajectory and even with the 20ga and 260gr slugs they have enough energy to take deer sized game out to over 200 yards. The 12ga slugs are heavier and have lots more energy than the 20ga. I took a nice 8 point last year with the 20ga Remington Premier Ultra Core-Lokt 260 grain slug. Slug went through both shoulders and was found perfectly mushroomed under the hide on the far side, deer went straight down and never moved. The 12ga slugs weigh in at 385grains and are also very accurate.

Get out there and shoot that Ultra, you won't believe how well these things shoot.

[Gowge]

MIdeerhunter,

You CAN shoot ANY slug out of your rifled barrel...... The Brenneke-Rotweil MP slugs are harder lead with a plastic wad attached to the base that fills the bore and seals the gases from escaping around the slug and do a wonderful job for a full bore slug.

http://www.dnrws.com/rottweil.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ROTTWEIL BRENNEKE MP - the 1 oz (440 grs) Original BRENNEKE slug cal. 12
  The new Rottweil BRENNEKE MP cartridge with our all around/all purpose slug designed for use in smooth or rifled barrels.
First choice for the modern hunter.  
Utilizing the patented filler wad design (US Patent #4,913,056) provides the new 12 gauge 1 oz. slug with the following advantages. Usable in rifled or smooth barrels - ALL-PURPOSE  
Usable with any choke  [/u][/size]
Deep penetration, little or no defomation of the slug  
Extremely high knock down power  
Excellent accuracy  
Priced competitively  

Busta'yote,
Not to start an argument, but if you can shoot those in ANY choke as the webiste so clearly states, then those slugs are not really "Hard Cast" or "HARD LEAD" at all.    A tight choke is gonna' squeeze them down at the muzzle and you just can't do that with bullet alloy - no way.

This is NOT to say Brenneke is not a good product - just different.   As far as budget priced, full bore swaged slugs go, it's among the best.   A lotta' big MOOSE, among others have been taken with original Brenneke Slugs in Northern Europe & Scandanavia for generations.  

The folks over there get very close to their game and aren't trophy hunters - they're hunting for MEAT and think nothing of shooting a moose at 20 yards  or even less if they can get that close.   The big slugs generally make two 73 caliber holes for easy tracking if it's required.   Usually, the animals drop in their tracks.  

We're lucky to have fine shootin' rifled barrel shotguns available now at such reasonable prices.  

GOOD LUCK THIS SEASON!  

[Busta]

MIdeerhunter,

You CAN shoot ANY slug out of your rifled barrel...... The Brenneke-Rotweil MP slugs are harder lead with a plastic wad attached to the base that fills the bore and seals the gases from escaping around the slug and do a wonderful job for a full bore slug.

http://www.dnrws.com/rottweil.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ROTTWEIL BRENNEKE MP - the 1 oz (440 grs) Original BRENNEKE slug cal. 12
  The new Rottweil BRENNEKE MP cartridge with our all around/all purpose slug designed for use in smooth or rifled barrels.
First choice for the modern hunter.  
Utilizing the patented filler wad design (US Patent #4,913,056) provides the new 12 gauge 1 oz. slug with the following advantages. Usable in rifled or smooth barrels - ALL-PURPOSE  
Usable with any choke  [/u][/size]
Deep penetration, little or no defomation of the slug  
Extremely high knock down power  
Excellent accuracy  
Priced competitively  

Busta'yote,
Not to start an argument, but if you can shoot those in ANY choke as the webiste so clearly states, then those slugs are not really "Hard Cast" or "HARD LEAD" at all.    A tight choke is gonna' squeeze them down at the muzzle and you just can't do that with bullet alloy - no way.

This is NOT to say Brenneke is not a good product - just different.   As far as budget priced, full bore swaged slugs go, it's among the best.   A lotta' big MOOSE, among others have been taken with original Brenneke Slugs in Northern Europe & Scandanavia for generations.  

The folks over there get very close to their game and aren't trophy hunters - they're hunting for MEAT and think nothing of shooting a moose at 20 yards  or even less if they can get that close.   The big slugs generally make two 73 caliber holes for easy tracking if it's required.   Usually, the animals drop in their tracks.  

We're lucky to have fine shootin' rifled barrel shotguns available now at such reasonable prices.  

GOOD LUCK THIS SEASON!  

Gowge,

I never said that they were "HARD CAST" like pistol bullets, just said that they were harder lead than the Fosters like Remington, Winchester and Federal, etc,. I don't have a device for checking the hardness of lead but if you ever tore on of these apart, you would know what I am talking about. The wad in these actually does more to fill the bore and travels with the slug all the way to the target and beyond.

My son shoots these out of his 870 smooth bore with rifled choke with excellent performance on paper and game, and you can't argue with that. The first buck he shot at 70 yards quartering away, the slug entered near the back of the ribcage angling up through the bottom of the spine going through the far shoulder hitting alot of bone, anchoring the buck on the spot. When we rolled him over, there was a lump under the hide and we retrieved the slug, it was hardly deformed at all with the plastic wad still attached like it is supposed to be. If that would have been a Remington, Winchester or Federal "Foster Slug", it would have never made it through all that bone in one piece. I have hit deer in the rib with the soft Foster slugs and had it shear them into two pieces making two completely different wound channels on more than one occasion.

These slugs will not lead up your bore like one of the softer Foster slugs will. I hope that clears up my message.

[Gowge]

Agree 100% - Brenneke is good stuff and has a well deserved reputation for taking some truly big game for a very long time.   It's the only swaged lead slug I would bother using.

I understand why other manufacturers make their swaged lead slugs of just about pure lead - it's a lot easier on their machines and doesn't cost nearly as much overall than when using a harder alloy or casting the slugs one at a time...    It's gotta' be a big investment researching an alloy that will work in any choke, but still hold together in game.   The guys at Holland & Holland used hard (Steel) inserts to maintain the shape of their bore rifle and Paradox slugs for thick skinned game.    (see pic below)

It would be great if all ammo manufacturers were willing to state on their products or websites, the actual hardness of the slugs they offer.   They know these things, but won't publish the info or share it with consumers.

For that matter, I've NEVER in my life seen a bullet manufacturer actually state the optimum impact velocity for their jacketed rifle bullets or pistol bullets.   They KNOW it's in the 1900-2100fps range, but won't tell you this important detail.   The best premium bullets only increase that velocity to about 2300fps, but again - they won't tell you that.   Higher impact velocities result in weight loss in almost direct proportion to the increased speed of the bullet and this results in less penetration.   Maybe one day a manufacturer will lead the way and eliminate some of the mystery about their products.

HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND!