209 Primer Question

[Bullseye]

Have been using Winchester 209's for a while with a bad crud ring.  Tried some CCI 209's this weekend because some claim they are cooler and help prevent the crud ring.  The crud ring was barely there.  It was not a problem at all loading 3 shots without cleaning and the back part of the barrel cleaned up much easier at the end of the day.

My question is about accuracy.  My wife was doing the shooting with her Encore today which she has only had for a few weeks.  She is still getting used to the gun and the sights, but the last time she shot she had about a 3" group, just not centered.  Today she was kind of all over the place.  I was wondering if she was just having a bad day, or if the different brand of primers affect accuracy.

Has anyone shot different brands of primers, CCI, Winchester, Federals Etc and compared the accuracy between the different brands

[Keith Lewis]

I have shot both Federal 209 and CCI 209 and Winchester 209 primers as well as Winchester rifle primers in the .25ACP conversion on my T/c Omega. I did not see much difference in accuracy. I did notice that with some synthetics there seemed to be a couple of hundred fps velocity increase with the hotter primers. Using 777 I could not get rid of the crud ring using anything other than the .25ACP conversion and even with that there is still enough fouling in my rifle to make a second shot reload difficult or impossible. This was with 90 to 100gr. loose 777 and a breechplug face with the medium sized recess in the face. I also got the impression that 777 is sensitive to compression variation. I had a hard time getting consistent load compression due to the fouling ring (that could be the accuracy variation).

[Redhawk1]

I have shot both Federal 209 and CCI 209 and Winchester 209 primers as well as Winchester rifle primers in the .25ACP conversion on my T/c Omega. I did not see much difference in accuracy. I did notice that with some synthetics there seemed to be a couple of hundred fps velocity increase with the hotter primers. Using 777 I could not get rid of the crud ring using anything other than the .25ACP conversion and even with that there is still enough fouling in my rifle to make a second shot reload difficult or impossible. This was with 90 to 100gr. loose 777 and a breechplug face with the medium sized recess in the face. I also got the impression that 777 is sensitive to compression variation. I had a hard time getting consistent load compression due to the fouling ring (that could be the accuracy variation).

When I shot with my 25ACP conversion yesterday using triple7, I shot 22 rounds and was able to load all the 195gr.  DC from precision rifle. They are tighter than power belts to load to began with, but they loaded with just a little more effort. I did not have any that I could not load.

Bullseye, when I was shooting the 209 primers, I tried all of them and did not notice any difference. I got a bad crud ring from all the 209's.

[Keith Lewis]

I notice a lot of comments that 777 is not as bad as what I experience. I notice that you are shooting 195gr. bullets and most of the other people that do not have the major crud ring or almost none with the .25ACP conversion are shooting lighter bullets than I have attempted to shoot. I shoot 300gr. or heavier as my main purpose is Elk hunting and the lighter bullets are not what I think will work for me. I suspect that bullet weight is a major factor in this crud ring formation. I will have to try some lighter bullets in the future sometime just to see if it is true.

[Redhawk1]

I notice a lot of comments that 777 is not as bad as what I experience. I notice that you are shooting 195gr. bullets and most of the other people that do not have the major crud ring or almost none with the .25ACP conversion are shooting lighter bullets than I have attempted to shoot. I shoot 300gr. or heavier as my main purpose is Elk hunting and the lighter bullets are not what I think will work for me. I suspect that bullet weight is a major factor in this crud ring formation. I will have to try some lighter bullets in the future sometime just to see if it is true.

I was shooting 295gr. power belt up until yesterday. I did not have any problem with the 25 ACP conversion with the heavier bullet either. I switched for the accuracy.

[Keith Lewis]

Guess I am going to slug my barrel. My Stainless Omega really does not allow a second shot with anything other than Black Mag3 without a swab betweens shots. I also have a real time loading any sabot even when I changed to Harvester sabots and SST bullets. I broke one ram rod the other day because it bent while trying to force the sabot with a .451 bullet down. I polished my Traditions Pursuit LT with JB Bore Paste and may try the Omega next. It might be the stainless barrel as stainless tends to tear material during machining rather than cutting cleanly like high carbon steel.

[Jim n Iowa]

Do they make this in a T/C Black Diamond Breech plug? I can use other powders, but the concept of reloading is interesting.
Jim

[lefty41]

Jim in Iowa
If I understand your question, the Black Diamond's breech plug takes a nipple. It can use #11, Musket cap, or 209. I haven't heard of anyone haveing crud ring problems with the Black Diamond.
Good luck and safe hunting.

[Keith Lewis]

Jim n Iowa: If you are interested in multiple shots without a swab between shots you should look into the Black Mag3 Powder. I know I am starting to sound like a salesman for the powder but it is everything I am looking for and appears to only have one drawback which is price the same or slightly higher than 777. You should not be having a major crud problem using standard percussion caps as they are not as hot as a rifle primer.

[upnorth]

don't forget... black mag 3 powder requires you to reduce your charge by 20%. so one pound of mag3 is the same as 1 1/2 lb of other powder. price is almost the same.

[Keith Lewis]

That is a partially true; (especially the part about reducing charge since my evaluation proved it is high energy stuff) however, the density of Black Mag3 due to the fine grain character does not allow the same volume in a pound of powder that the other ffg grain size powders do so the savings are not as great due to the charge reduction.