Author Topic: Help with new Encore Blackpowder!!!!!!! (Read 999 times)

hoyt22 · « **on:** October 25, 2004, 03:12:34 AM »

I have a new Encore 50 caliber...went to shoot it yesterday using 100 grains of 777 and 245 grain powerbelt...couldn't group and seemed the sabot entered sideways...any suggestions?

Thanks I need help on the best powder and sabot load...

skeeter · « **Reply #1 on:** October 25, 2004, 03:35:24 AM »

Try different bullets. You can still try powerbelts, but try different weights. I have found that the amount of powder doesn't affect accuracy as much as the bullet. Triple 7 is great. Try Hornaday and Barnes sabots. Also if you are shooting open sights try shooting at shorter ranges to eliminate sighting error as well. I guess the bottom line is try, try, try.

grumps · « **Reply #2 on:** October 25, 2004, 03:43:50 AM »

When you say that it seemed the sabot entered sideways?? Explain. Sideways into the barrel or what. The sabot cannot slide down the barrel anyway but straight down, the encore's barrel is enlarged at the crown so that the sabot will start easier but it still shouldn't look sideways or even canted unless they are the wrong size.

hoyt22 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 25, 2004, 03:46:51 AM »

Sorry.......the sabot entered the cardboard target sideways......and my groups were 6 to 8 inches.......

Kal52 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 25, 2004, 07:02:33 AM »

one thing you might try, and ive done it with some of mine is to put a white sheet under the muzzel, if you have unburnt powder on it, your using too much, adjust and your groups will get better, and i agree bullet wieght can be a factor.

buckenbass · « **Reply #5 on:** October 25, 2004, 03:45:17 PM »

Well I'll tell you what I did 6 years ago when I first bought my encore I was using the same set up as you but i was using poydex.. my shots were entering sideways also ..i later found out you don't use bore butter with sabots too much lube dose not alow sabot to hold on the rifles rifling..A little is fine if there hard to push but too much will give fliers.tumblers..my encore holds 1 inch at 100 yards and 4 inch at 200 with the same set-up..

mikemayberry · « **Reply #6 on:** October 25, 2004, 06:03:21 PM »

If I remember correctly, the Powerbelts and included literature says they require no lubricant. I can easily insert the 225 gr. Powerbelt with the ramrod (even easier with a short starter) and get it all the way into the barrel for 10 shots or so before it begins to hang up due to burnt powder etc. BTW, I have been using the 50 gr. 777 tablets -- two of 'em get me to the level of energy I want plus retain the accuracy at about 1 inch at 100 yards.

Look at not lubing, clean every 6 shots and see if that helps.

For hunting, the convenience is obvious with no lube required, two tabs, one bullet and bang!

I'm all in favor with less stuff to keep up with while hunting.

Mike

Fred McIntire · « **Reply #7 on:** October 26, 2004, 01:48:04 AM »

You may want to try to adjust that powder load if you are using 777 in its powder form instead of the pellets. 777 tends to produce higher velocities than the same amount of black powder.

Also, go to the web site for a company called Precision Rifle. They manufacture some of the best muzzleloading bullets available.

Good luck.

mikemayberry · « **Reply #8 on:** October 26, 2004, 01:51:19 AM »

Let me just add the following information as taken from the Powerbelt website:

Q. Do I need to clean between every shot to maintain accuracy?

A: With sabots, cleaning between every shot is necessary to maintain accuracy---and in many cases just to get the next sabot down the barrel. Why? Because sabots leave a plastic residue in the rifling every time you shoot a round. If not thoroughly cleaned, this residue robs your barrel of accuracy and makes loading a quick follow-up shot very difficult. With PowerBelt Bullets, the plastic base only engages the rifling behind the bullet so virtually no residue is left behind. This is because upon ignition the bullet obturates (expands) to engage the rifling. The plastic base follows behind the bullet then drops away after the bullet leaves the muzzle, having done its job of providing a perfect gas seal. Therefore, you can shoot 6 to 8 shots in a row, only cleaning the barrel to remove excess powder fouling.

Also:

Q. Do PowerBelt Bullets require any additional lubrication?

A: No. The special design of the bullet eliminates the use of lubes that can harden in the barrel and make follow up shots difficult. Adding lubrication can cause pressures to vary and fouling to increase.

These can be found at www.powerbeltbullets.com on their FAQ page.

While I am getting dangerously close to an endorsement, I can report that my experiences are exactly as listed above.

Mike

MF · « **Reply #9 on:** October 26, 2004, 04:36:35 AM »

Run a spit patch followed by a dry patch in between shots. If I don't do this then my powerbelts will keyhole after a couple shots. Mike

MUTTLY · « **Reply #10 on:** November 02, 2004, 03:49:27 AM »

I have tried many bullet and powder combos in my encore, and for the last 3 years have used tc or hornady 250 gr polly tiped sabots (tc shockwaves) on opening day. I don't spit patch, but use a patch lightly moistened with #13 bore cleaner, followed by a dry patch between each shot (I'm not shooting at deer with a dirty barrel, why would I shoot paper with one?). I am shooting 1.5" 5 shot groups. This year I switched to 777 pellets from pyrodex pellets, and my point of impact hardly changed. My longest shot was 165 yards at an 8 point, and he dropped in his tracks, bullet passed thru with a large exit wound. My typical shot has been around 80 yards in scrub.

TCShooter · « **Reply #11 on:** November 02, 2004, 03:09:21 PM »

I have been shooting Pyrodex, two pellets, and a 240 gr. Hornady XTP with a sabot and have never had problems with keyholing. I don't use Bore Butter yet but was thinking of trying it this year and I don't clean between shots for at least the first four shots...after that my groups open right up.

I say try different bullets, even try some with sabots, if I remember right the powerbelts have a plastic button on the bottom instead of a sabot so try to mix it up. I'm sure you will find something that works well with you.

Good luck in you search!

poncaguy · « **Reply #12 on:** November 03, 2004, 05:51:14 AM »

My Encore shoots very well with 3 777 pellets and the 245 or 295 grain Powerbelts........no keyholing at all.......

mfj-az · « **Reply #13 on:** January 06, 2005, 03:11:48 PM »

I have had a similar problem with Powerbelts, I can't seem to hold a group tighter than 4 inches at 100 yards with 3 pellets of 777. I tried different powder charges and still no results. I switched to Hornady SST 250 gr. sabot's and had great success. I am holding 1/2 groups or better at 100 yards.

Vic L. · « **Reply #14 on:** January 11, 2005, 06:15:39 AM »

I also have problems with the powerbelts. I really liked using them as they are very easy to load, which may be the problem. I have a vvcg 13" 50 cal. barrel and the tc shockwave shoots beautiful 2" groups from field positions. They are also virtually impossible to load a second shot without cleaning. I now carry a powerbelt as a second round as I would not be able to load a shockwave for a followup shot before the deer left the county. I have to assume that my particular barrel is right in between these two bullets. I may check others but the shockwave is so accurate I am very hesitant.

Vic L.

Lawful Larry · « **Reply #15 on:** January 13, 2005, 06:05:18 AM »

Quote from: Vic L.

I also have problems with the powerbelts. I really liked using them as they are very easy to load, which may be the problem. I have a vvcg 13" 50 cal. barrel and the tc shockwave shoots beautiful 2" groups from field positions. They are also virtually impossible to load a second shot without cleaning. I now carry a powerbelt as a second round as I would not be able to load a shockwave for a followup shot before the deer left the county. I have to assume that my particular barrel is right in between these two bullets. I may check others but the shockwave is so accurate I am very hesitant.

Vic L.

Hoyt22,
As you can see we all have some form of problem with this gun. The quote above is the way I must sit in the woods and hunt. I did get a nice 6 pointer this year, but had to do what Vic L did to get off the second shot. These Encores are definitely Prima Donnas for sure.

I will be selling my barrel and going into the woods with my NEF Sidekick. It eats anything I put in the barrel and groups too. I am also having problems with a .30-06 barrel which is back at the factory right now. I am not pleased with my Encore. :cry:

My G2 Contender is something else. No problems there! :wink:

Vic L. · « **Reply #16 on:** January 17, 2005, 04:51:09 AM »

I would hate to have my post misconstrued. I am of the opinion that most muzzleloaders as well as many rifle barrels can be finnicky about loads. As I mentioned my blackpowder barrel is from vvcg so you cannot blame the encore for the barrels preference for certain loads. I am also very happy with my vvcg barrel (one of 3) as well as my two encore frames and contender setups which also includes vvcg, bullberry and factory. It is just a matter of experimentation to find the right combo. If one particular barrel or firearm such as the gentlemens nef are great with any round then he is very fortunate. I know of several nef owners who find performance variances between different sabots and loads.

Thanks,

Vic L.