Author Topic: "Baiting" Deer? (Read 3505 times)

Advocate · « **on:** January 24, 2003, 01:32:09 PM »

Had dinner with a hunting friend from Michigan who tole me that it's legal and widley practiced to "bait" deer in thick forest areas where there are few clearigs over which to shoot. Said they used apples and other things. Makes perfect sense I guess. Just never heard of it before.

Has anyone else hunted deer this way?

Hud · « **Reply #1 on:** January 24, 2003, 01:45:10 PM »

Yea, but I never found any fishing line strong enough to hold them! :-D

It is illegal in Minnesota to bait deer (except for using salt), but in many states it is legal. A lot of southern states I think. It's just one other method of luring deer up to your stand. I think is ethicly no worse than making false scrapes, grunting, rattling, or using deer decoys. If it is legal and safe, I'd say use it.

You can hunt over naturaly fallen bait in Minnesota, such as acorns, apples fallen from a tree, or even corn thats fallen in a field from harvesting.

Hud

Muddyboots · « **Reply #2 on:** January 24, 2003, 01:49:23 PM »

Michigan is having all sorts of problems with the deer baiting. Guys were literally bringing truck loads of corn, sugar beets, carrots etc. to bait an area. This caused tremendous friction with other hunters since it congregated deer and pulled deer from surrounding areas. On state land it was a battlefield. Michigan reduced the amount that you can bait to 5 gallon pail to help solve this. They also are having problems with TB since so many deer are feeding on same food pile transferring the disease real easy. Baiting is banned in several areas due to it. CWD is real threat with easy transfer of disease. They should stop the baiting. The woods aren't too thick only the hunters heads. Hunt in heavy cover is normal for deep woods but most guys want their long easy rocking chair shots out of their shooting huts watching cable on the portable. Bottom line is baiting deer causes more trouble than its worth plus I always thought this was suppose to be hunting and not killing. What's up with Michigan anyway..they started legalizing snagging and now it is banned. Didn't they learn anything?

I am CAL......... · « **Reply #3 on:** January 24, 2003, 01:52:15 PM »

Down here in So. Georgia it is not legal but is widely practiced.Most people use shell corn and a pipe feeder. The pipe feeder will keep the bait from the eliments and it will last longer. I am CAL...

The Happy Kaboomer · « **Reply #4 on:** January 24, 2003, 02:01:32 PM »

I use electronic feeders on 55 gal. drums and feed them year round in my fields and food plots.

longwinters · « **Reply #5 on:** January 24, 2003, 05:47:51 PM »

Yes there is baiting in Mich. And we do have TB and CWD also. The TB most likely came from people feeding their farm animals ,and possible game ranch deer. feed made from the proteins of dead anumals ground up bones etc . . . not caused by baiting. The CWD came into Wisconsin via deer brought in from out west (Wyoming I think) where there is no baiting hmmm. funny some think it is in the corn or apples people use. Is baiting right or ethical, I can take it or leave it. But what the gov. is going to probably do is to ban baiting but allow landowners to plant food plots (really large bait piles) to hunt over. Now what will draw more deer, 5 gal of bait that must be spread out (legally) over at least a 10' area or a few acres of planted BAIT that only those who own land can use? Is it different than hunting an orchard, or any other type of food source, I really do not think so. But it is a sticky issue. But dont worry though. Our DNR keeps telling us that there are well over a million deer in Michigan but almost everyone you talk to hardly saw any this year. Infact you could put bait out and it would never be touched by a deer for days and days. Hard for deer to spread disease if they dont even eat the bait. And how about the few deer yards that are left. The papermills and loggers have cut out all the cedar and hemlock and replace it with red pine. So should we cut out all the rest of the wintering areas because deer congregate there during the winters in very close quarters. . . so they may spread disease? This is not, as I said, a clear issue. But I think no matter what the deer are going to lose because we are run by politicians and special interest groups (like those reintroducing the wolves into the U.P of Michigan) instead of good biologists that actually know what is going on. Michigans deer herd is in big trouble.

volshooter · « **Reply #6 on:** January 25, 2003, 07:13:34 AM »

Cain't bait in TN either. You can put food stuff out but it has to be removed 10 days before season.
Rick

Muddyboots · « **Reply #7 on:** January 25, 2003, 03:50:52 PM »

The point is not that bait is causing the disease but clearly a primary means on how the disease is transmitted from one animal to another. CWD is caused by a protein but when in close contact such as on a bait pile it is easily transmitted from one deer to another. Same for TB relative to saliva. One der picks up bait, munches on it and drops it for another piece. Another deer picks up the same bait and the disease is transmitted. Pretty simple concept to understand. It doesn't matter where the disease originated, bait piles defintely become essentially the typhoid mary for deer. I lived in Michigan for several years and it was a battle to hunt state land with bait piles. Natural funnels that had bait piles became the personal property of those who baited and believe no one had the right to hunt the area any more which is BS. Public land belongs to all of us and no one should have or believe to have the right to restrict others from hunting certain areas just because they "baited" it. As we all know, natural funnels etc. are very limited and you hunt the best spots available. Hunting public land is considerably different from hunting private land and cannot be restricted due to baiting. Hunting over a corn field is different from a bait pile. Deer have unrestricted access and can enter from any point. You hunt based upon your knowledge and understanding of deer movement. The bottom line is bait piles are a significant risk to the deer herds and should be stopped to protect the future. It doesn't matter if I don't like the concept or not, the facts speak for themself, deer herds will become contaminated more easily and that alone should be the issue.

Whopper Stopper · « **Reply #8 on:** January 26, 2003, 01:24:11 AM »

Wisconsin always WAS a state that allowed baiting. Now it is against the law. CWD was just reson for the rule reversal. There is no bigger can of worms to open then the question of Baiting and ethics. In this part of the country things are pretty well split with the anti baiters relishing the flavor of the moment.

jhm · « **Reply #9 on:** January 26, 2003, 04:43:50 AM »

lets take the baiting issue of passing desease along to others in the heard yes its possible but do you really believe the deer dont have any contact with each other except at the corn pile that is found in the woods. Be reasonable if the corn pile was the real culprit then every stockyard/feedlot/and small farm would be overrun with contaminated animals, yes Im sure it is possible for a sick animal to pass something on to another animal in the wild but if you were spending any real time out there you will find out that they make contact with one another in all kinds of activities. I see nothing wrong with using baits where it is LEGAL it is no different than having the secret old apple orhard that you are the only one that is suppose to know about. And yes you will alwas have the argument of the man that owns land that is allowed to bait or plant food plots to bring in the deer, and the public isnt allowed to do it on the state land well private property is private property, I just dont have any good answer for that, but I do know that it is getting harder to find good public land to hunt on like someone on one of the other post put it that some of the hunters think they owned the land because they had put out a bait. The long and short of it is where it is legal I feel its OK.

JIM

Muddyboots · « **Reply #10 on:** January 26, 2003, 06:06:42 AM »

Again, I will say that baiting is not the culprit for the disease nor the reason there is a disease but certainly is a significant means of transmission. Yes deer do have contact with each other outside of bait piles but not to the same degree of intimate contact relative to passing on of bodily fluids. Some feedlots have shown signs of TB and other diseases for the very same reason. I spend a tremendous amount of time in the woods before, during and after the seasons to understand both movement and behaviour. Probably more after the season when you have the woods to your self is my favorite time. No where do deer have the same type of intimate contact as demontrated on bait piles. I really don't have an overall problem with baiting where there is no danger of disease transmission or control over where and how but up here in the Midwest we need to take our heads out of the sand or other dark damp place and recognize if we don't get after this right now, we will lose big time. CWD is in Illinois and Wisconsin. I don't think it recognizes state borders and won't go into Indiana or Michigan. Maybe Indiana will be able to hold it back since baiting is illegal there but do we want to take the chance? It will spread like wildfire if or more likely when it gets into Michigan. It is only a matter of time. Contagious diseases are like that, they are opportunistic and take advantage of transmision circumstances. The question we need to ask ourselves is a pile of sugar beets worth the loss of a deer herd? When that happens, the anti's will step in and and go after deer hunting as not being needed with the population decimated. Then the fight will be on to restore hunting. Is this what we want? This is a real possibility. This is not sky falling wailing but realistic concern over future of hunting for my children and their children. I'd rather take a stand now and be on the safe side to provide the future of deer hunting a fighting chance. I guess the south is pretty lucky right now so baiting will probably not be a problem but if CWD moves south then you will have to face the very same tough decisions as up here. Do you trade baiting for the future?

volshooter · « **Reply #11 on:** January 26, 2003, 05:19:15 PM »

In TN it is illegal to bait, how many other southern states also frown on baiting? Baiting is a fair chase issue not a disease one here. (keep our fingers crossed) Tn has put a moratorium (spelling?) on all importation of game including deer and elk until further studies can be looked at.
Rick

huntnnut · « **Reply #12 on:** January 29, 2003, 11:02:37 AM »

Besides being a potential means of spreading CWD and other diseases, baiting is also fuel for the Anties! This issue helps to split up hunters and play's right into the anties hands . If hunter's don't begin to find some common ground and stand up for themselves then hunting as we know it and as our ancestors knew it will be gone forever.

Think about it! :wink:

huntnnut

grouper sandwich · « **Reply #13 on:** February 20, 2003, 05:07:03 PM »

You can hunt over feeders in Florida as long as they have been maintained for at least 6 months.

Frog123 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 20, 2003, 07:40:34 PM »

I hunt here in Tenn. where it is illegal to hunt over artificially placed bait. However it is legal to deer hunt over agricultural areas. Where I hunt at it is common place to plant several food plots of varying size and material specifically for deer. Sometimes I wonder is there really any difference in what I do, hunting over a small plot of winter wheat, versus the guy in Texas hunting over a corn feeder in a sendero or a hunter in Michigan's U.P. hunting over a load of sugar beets in an old growth forest. The only difference that I readily see is that the area that I hunt on will support agricultural practices where as the brush country of South Texas won't. Is this any different than the guy hunting in a dry, arid area who places a stand over a livestock watering tank versus the guy who does the same only choses to hunt over a pond or other natural water source?

Frog

jhm · « **Reply #15 on:** February 21, 2003, 04:29:30 AM »

NO.

JIM

dakotashooter2 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 21, 2003, 03:41:06 PM »

Frog.. Hunting over a food plot and baiting are two different animals. Bait stations usually draw the animals to a very specific spot and in many cases with mechanical feeders, at a special time. Food plots on the other hand tend to cover a larger area, are available night and day for longer periods of time and as a general rule will be used seasonally so they are not as predictable as bait stations. Baiting is generally done to bring game to a "spot" while food plot generally bring game to an "area". I hunt in an agricultural area and do not consider hunting a 40 acre sunflower field baiting because the deer can come and go as they please without evn being seen.

jhm · « **Reply #17 on:** February 21, 2003, 04:14:08 PM »

frog123 the small food plots you were refering to in your post that are planted to draw deer into a specific area are basicly the same thing as a mechanical feed thrower that can be controlled to disperse the feed at any time of the day the hunter wants it thrown, true the deer can use the food plots 24 hrs a day and they provide growth over a longer period of time other than just during hunting season, the end result is the same the deer are in a specific spot at a specific time, now when you are talking 40/ 80 or larger fields of crops thats not concidered (food plots) thats farming.

JIM

Frog123 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 21, 2003, 07:02:12 PM »

That's exactly what I was trying to point out. Essentially there is no difference in my hunting over a one to two acre plot of winter wheat in the middle of the woods or the five or six stunted apple trees next to the abandoned homestead than the guy hunting over a pile of carrots or the mechanical feeder. The carrots or shell corn are just as available at night as they are during the day. However if I'm hunting a 200 acre corn field where the deer can come out at any time or place then this would appear different as the 200 acres of corn are being planted primarily for an agricultural purpose (silage) versus one or two acres being planted specifically for the attraction of wildlife. Yes, it requires more time and effort to break ground and plant a crop versus putting feed out but there really is no difference. For the time being anything planted in the ground is essentially a legalized form of baiting. I've already had this debate with my favorite hunting partner who coincidentally is my brother. He was discussing how certain "celebrity" hunters chose to hunt over mechanical feeders while others hunt out of shooting boxes over green fields. Not a lot of difference as compared to us hunting over our food plots I'd say.
To each his own.

Frog

dakotashooter2 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 23, 2003, 04:11:11 AM »

You call 40/80 acres a food plot. Thats hardly one pass with the cultivator up here. I don't think we have small enough equipment to even plant a plot that small.

tabbycat · « **Reply #20 on:** January 23, 2004, 06:41:50 AM »

Baiting here is legal if you have registered your bait pile paid for the permit & shown your local GW where it is. :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
BLAH BLAH BLAH nobody does that that I know of even cops who are in hunting clubs here pour corn out.
Food plot or bait pile there is no difference both are placed there by man
where it originaly did not exist for the purpose of attracting deer.
Now that's the bottom line period no matter how you try to justify or rationalize.
That said I use them both :wink:

Tabbycat Elkins

rpseven · « **Reply #21 on:** January 24, 2004, 01:46:42 PM »

I will tell you what baiting is for. It's for all those lazy a%% hunters out there who don't want to get off thier butt and do it like it suppose to be done. I live in Tenn. and it is illegal here to bait. You can do in the off season but 7 to 10 days before deer season starts all the bait has to be gone. But you still have those lazy morons that still do it all season long.

tabbycat · « **Reply #22 on:** January 24, 2004, 02:01:04 PM »

7 -10 days later I bet deer are still looking for the corn that was there. I know in fact they will especialy if it has been there for months :wink:

Tabbycat Elkins

ihuntbucks · « **Reply #23 on:** January 24, 2004, 07:25:17 PM »

Here in Bama it's illegal to bait.You can have feeders,but they have to be empty 10 days before you hunt over them.Also,you can hunt over "white salt" but not "brown salt"(mineral blocks).Food plots are different story,you can have as large as your means will allow and no problem hunting over them. Rick

rockbilly · « **Reply #24 on:** January 25, 2004, 10:08:57 AM »

I think there are pros and cons to feeding (or baiting) everywhere. In defense of us folks out here in West Texas. It has been at least five years since we have any real measureable amount of rainfall. Farmers are having problems raising food (wheat, etc.) ranchers are selling cattle because they can not raise food and it is too expensive to buy. Game animals are really hurting in some areas. There is not enough food to survive on. So they move to other areas, over graze, and just increase the amount of area that will not support hoved animals. The true sportsmen here have spent thousands of dollars each year to feed the deeer, turkey, quail and all of the other varmits that eat our grain. I have noticed, game tends to come to feeders when there is nothing else to eat, but if there is winter wheat, plenty of acorns and natural grasses you don't see as many at the feeders. I feed year around, it cost me quite a bit to keep two 55 gal drums full. I use a electronic timer that feed for 20 seconds twice a day. It ain't much, but the corn and Deer and Game Feed mixture provides enought to help them survive. That's what's important, at least from my point of view.

jhm · « **Reply #25 on:** January 25, 2004, 11:46:07 AM »

Im on the pro side of feeding deer with a corn feeder opr food plots on your property if legal in your state, if you follow the game laws in most states and take your quota of deer you will still be doing the deer heard some good and other game as well because the deer you take are not the only ones that are eating from your feeder and food plot, it will take awhile but you will see the deer heard improce in your area if you help them out, you cant just throw some corn on the ground 2 nights b-4 season opener and expect it to do anything, it is a year long exercise that does cost the individual both time and lots of $$$.

JIM

Bob/FLA · « **Reply #26 on:** January 26, 2004, 05:02:52 AM »

Baiting? Never understood how that word is used in a conversation about hunting.

I went to a farmer once and chose a pig to bring home. The farmer threw out some corn...the pig of choice got a .22 to the brain, while munching dinner. Sooo...I'm a great hunter?

Is this what hunting has come to? ARGH!
Those in favor will create any excuse to justify it while those opposed will be tongue-lashed for upholding hunting ethics. I have a booklet from my hunter safety course titled "Hunting Ethics and Fair Chase"...obviously not widely distributed. If shooting something means so much, call a local rancher and shoot a bull (because the size of the horns is in direct proportion to your manhood), mount the 180 class horns on the wall and LOOK...the taxidermist even left the CORN there so you can show your friends what a great hunter you were.

I couldn't look my son in the eye if my moral fiber was that thin.

Even though it's legal, that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Men make laws to meet their needs. Integrity is doing the right thing even when no one else is there.

Disgusted
Bob

tabbycat · « **Reply #27 on:** January 26, 2004, 07:52:30 AM »

Good for you bobby you're one heck of a guy!!
:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

Tabbycat Elkins

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #28 on:** February 04, 2004, 07:45:05 AM »

To those of you that think hunting over bait is for morons and unethical or not real hunting (fair chase). I think your comments are unwarranted. When you live a small state like Delaware and there is very limited public land to hunt on and the farmers don't let you hunt there land and that is where all or most of the deer are, you need to attract them somehow to your area to hunt. I have 7 acres in a very heave wooded area it is surrounded by stateland and big farms. The farmers won't let anyone hunt the land. For some that have prime land for deer and there is an abundance of deer and baiting is not needed, sure your not going to understand why some of us use bait. I am all for it. I have put whole corn out in feeders from August and stop in March. If that is what I have to do to draw deer to my land, that is what I will do. If not why should I hunt if there is nothing there. I think some of you need to step off your high and mighty soap box. Not all of use have 2000 acre farms and ranches to hunt.

willis5 · « **Reply #29 on:** February 04, 2004, 08:55:10 AM »

you cannot convince people, who are in different stages of moral development, that your perception of a moral issue is relevent.