44 vs 357 : SS vs Ti Best bear protection for backpacker?

[Teddy]

This is my first time here and I was wondering if anyone can help me. I backpack and fly fish in  the Rockies, Cal, and Canada and regularly see bears. I give them a lot of room, but when you are 5 to 10 miles from the nearest road  it might be nice to have some realistic protection. I have been looking at the following Taurus models because of the weight:
TRACKER, .44 MAGNUM, 4" Barrel, 5 rds, SS               (35 oz) (ported)
RAGING BULL .44 Magnum UltraLite revolver, 6 Rds     (28 oz) (no ports)
TRACKER, .41 MAGNUM, 4" Barrel, 5 rds , SS              (24 oz) (ported)
TRACKER, .41 MAGNUM, 4" Barrel, 5 rds , SS              (35 oz) (ported)
TRACKER, 357 MAGNUM, 4" Barrel, 7 rds , SS             (29 oz) (ported)
TRACKER, 357  MAGNUM, 4" Barrel, 5 rds , Ti              (35 oz) (ported)
TRACKER, 357 MAGNUM, 6" Barrel, 7 rds , Ti               (28 oz) (ported)
TRACKER, 357 MAGNUM, 4" Barrel, 7 rds , Ti               (24 oz) (ported)
      Any help deciding and user info for pros and cons between 44, 41, 357: ported or not, 4" vs 6" , SS vs Ti , RAGING BULL grip vs TRACKER grip? I just want bear protection I am not hunting them. Thanks

[Mikey]

Teddy:  if you are going into bear country, and the areas you described harbor some big brownies and maybe even a few traveling Silvertips, go with the biggest bore you can find.  In this case the 44 magnum is far better than the 357 for what you need to defend yourself against.  If you do not relaod there are many good factory loads for the 44 magnum that will help you get out of trouble with Uncle Bruin if he's not in a pleasant mood.  

For the best bullet/load, I would suggest you drop on down to the forum that deals with bear and boar hunting and read what JJHACK has said about 44 magnums and bears.  It is incredibly informative and this man is the resource to listen to.  Good luck, stay safe and hth.  Mikey.

[Robert357]

I backpack and fly fish in  the Rockies, Cal, and Canada and regularly see bears. .......... I just want bear protection I am not hunting them. Thanks

Dear Teddy;

First of all unless you are really special it is illegal for most folks to have a handgun in Canada.

Second, California has some really strange firearms laws and your ability to purchase a handgun in California or bring it into the state if not purchased within the state through a proper state regulated transfer could be problematic.  I would suggest you carefully read the NRA summary of California gun laws and then do more research.

http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/StateLaws.aspx?ST=CA

Third as to the "Rockies"  I  would suggest that you figure out which states and then check the NRA State Gunlaws for that state.

In conclusion, firearm ownership, especially handgun ownership requires a good understanding of the laws where you plan on using your handgun.  Some of your post, such as dealing with Canada, screams out that you don't have a good understanding of the laws of that Country regarding private citizens possession of handguns.  Violations of gunlaws can be a very serious matter.  

I would suggest you review the firearms laws of the places you go backpacking and fishing and then contemplate what you can legally do.  Once you have done that you will likely see that in some places (like Canada) you must rely upon a "non-handgun" solution to protection.  With that in mind you might want to then frame your questions.

[S.B.]

Taurus's quality seems to be suffering lately. In the situation and areas you describe, I'd opt for a S&W 500 with a four inch barrel . And if it doesn't have to be a handgun, I'd opt for a 10 ga. semi auto, with slugs. and the magazine plug taken out.  Would you fly in an airplane that had a 50% chance of getting to your destination? Personally, I'd rather, any bear who sees me as "Little White Riding Hood" end up twice dead as half alive.
As the movie says "Choose Wisely". Good luck.
Robert357, if I understand the posters thinking, he'd rather be illegal than eaten. You must live in a larger city, rural (read outdoors)  folk seem to see things differently. But, the majority of people in Kalifornia seem to agree with your concept of how law should read? It's a lot different when your there and not sitting in some state capital building trying to think up laws! And it's yet another to talk the talk, rather than walk the walk.

[Bug]

I was in this same quandry a few years ago. We were taking a group of boys backpacking (think of giggling Reese's cups in a tent!).  It happened we were headed to an area, in the N.M. mountains, near where a woman had been dragged from her tent, a couple of months earlier. :shock:
 I considered the .357 mag I already had , likewise the .45 Commander. I wound up buying a stainless 4" M-44 Taurus. Yes it's an older one, and I've had no problems whatsoever. Even though the throat is too short to use the Lee 300 grainers, I feel it's about all I am likely to be able to use effectively. It will put six in 6" in less than 4 seconds. Of course thats at about 25 FEET. Accuracy ain't bad further out, slow fire.  
 I trade a fair number of guns, but I think this one has a home. :wink:

JMHO........................Bug.

[Camp Cook]

:lol: I guess you would have to call me one of those really special Canadians that has a handgun carry permit for remote wilderness areas of British Columbia, Canada.  :lol:
During the winter months I carry either a Colt Delta Elite or a Glock 20 10mm's and during the spring/summer/early fall, I used to carry a s/s Ruger Bisley Vaquero in 45 Colt with 330gr Jae-bok Young's hard cast bullets or 300gr Hornady XTP's @ about 1300fps.
I now carry a Ruger Super Redhawk in 454 Casull with 360gr Cast Performance hard cast bullets @ 1500fps.
Remember most factory 12 gauge slugs weigh 1 or 1 1/8 ounces (1 ounce equals 437gr) with a velocity of only 1300 to 1600fps on average. Compare those velocities with the 454 Casull and the Casull is not much different than a 12 gauge.
I did not feel very comfortable having so many bears around me all the time in the bush with the only the 10mm's or the 45 Colt. The amount of equipment that I carry with me does not allow me the opportunity to carry rifles or shotguns very often. Even though in grizzly country I would rather be carrying my 18.5" barreled Rem 870 12 gauge or my Marlin 1895GS 45/70.
Cam

[Robert357]

Dear S.B.;

Robert357, if I understand the posters thinking, he'd rather be illegal than eaten. You must live in a larger city, rural (read outdoors)  folk seem to see things differently. But, the majority of people in Kalifornia seem to agree with your concept of how law should read? It's a lot different when your there and not sitting in some state capital building trying to think up laws! And it's yet another to talk the talk, rather than walk the walk.

I totally understand what you are saying.  When I go into the deep woods for hiking, I usually carry either a Ruger Blackhawk 357 Mag with 180 or 200 grain handloads over lots of Alliant 2400 powder, or a Ruger Blackhawk 45 Long Colt with Hornady 250 grain XPE bullet over lots of Alliant 2400 powder.

For the record, my house is in the un-incorporated part of the County I live in and my neighbor across the stream has a cow and donkey in his pasture.  Therefore, I don't live in a big city or have an office in the State Capitol.

I like being able to possess firearms and collect firearms.  I would hate to have to get rid of them because of a felony conviction realted to firearms.  Living in Washington State near the boarder with Canada and being a memeber of a gun club that occasionally has matches up in BC.  I have heard lots of stories about Club members who go to Canada to shoot in matches, even air pistol matches and what they have to go through to get over the boarder when they have all the right permits lined up.  

I have a son (who is over 21) who lives in California and would love to take one of the handguns from my gunsafe back with him to California, but won't because of the way the laws are written.

I am active in my local gun club, an NRA member, and a member of the Washington Arms Collectors Association.  I understand the concept of judged by 12 versus carried by six.  However, I would not openly, in a public setting, ever advise anyone on doing something that was possibly against the law. In this day and age, you are free to do that.  I will not.  

I would point out that this is Teddy's first posting and I have heard of all kinds of strange BAFT sting operations.  Besides which Teddy needs to understand that there may be legal aspects to purchasing a handgun and using it as he desires.  

Teddy was asking for advice on caliber and his question identified in my mind that he also needed some advice having to do with gunlaws.

[Robert357]

:lol: I guess you would have to call me one of those really special Canadians that has a handgun carry permit for remote wilderness areas of British Columbia, Canada.  :lol:
Cam

Just for curiousity, how difficult would you say it was to get the paper work processed for a handgun carry permit?

Do you think it would be possible for a tourist to get such a permit easily?

Sounds like you do some serious backcountry work.

Thanks.

[Camp Cook]

:lol: I guess you would have to call me one of those really special Canadians that has a handgun carry permit for remote wilderness areas of British Columbia, Canada.  :lol:
Cam

Just for curiosity, how difficult would you say it was to get the paper work processed for a handgun carry permit?

Do you think it would be possible for a tourist to get such a permit easily?

Sounds like you do some serious backcountry work.

Thanks.

  I'm sorry to say that it is not possible for you to get a carry permit here. Actually it is almost impossible for a Canadian to get this permit. Through my work I fit into a very small criteria that enables me to get this permit. I have to thank the new gun registration system here for making it possible to get my permit.

  It used to be that to get this permit your local police chief had to OK it (if you where lucky he might not be anti gun) but now it is done in a central office by basically a secretary and approved by a firearms officer.

 :grin:  I am in the bush about 4 days a week and have encountered hundreds of bears over the years, for an example about a month ago in a 10 minute period I had 5 different black bears around me the furthest being 106 yards (I always carry my laser range finder) the closest was 10 yards away and the rest where about 30 to 40 yards away. The closest people may have been about 20 miles away from. Not that I have needed to shoot any of the the bears so far but it sure feels good to have my 454 Casull when thier around.

 :shock: With talking to other people I know or have meet I think the Federal government/law enforcement officerswould be surprised at how many people here carry handguns in the bush.
Cam

[Graybeard]

Based on my experiences with the several Taurus revolvers I've bought in the past 2-3 years I'm not sure I'd want to bet my life on any of them. Well maybe my two RBs but nothing I've bought since them. And for darn sure I'd not on ANY of their titanium guns. They seem to be trouble waiting to happen.

In Canada a rifle is really your ONLY choice. They just won't let you use a handgun. Unless you're a really experienced handgunner your chances of getting it into play in time if charged unexpectedly at close quarters are near nil. Still I'd sure want one to hope I could use once the bear was on me even if I had a rifle to help keep him off. Once the bear reaches you IF he does that rifle is then useless and only a handgun or a long bladed knife give you much hope.

[GhosTT]

Always trust GRAYBEARD's advice!........
 :grin:

[DirtyHarry]

From your list I would definitely go with the RB Model 444Multi. Personally for me a 357 would not be an option...

[Lawdog]

Teddy,

Welcome to Graybeard Outdoors.  The very best place on the net for hunters/shooters going today.

As Graybeard said "In Canada a rifle is really your ONLY choice." is true and I see no reason not to use this same criteria in the other places you want to backpack.  A handgun does not make a good choice for protection against bears.  Most shooters, under stress, do not shoot a handgun well.  A handgun carried on the hip interferes with the pack as does many shoulder holsters.  I know many like to think that they can draw a handgun quickly but under backpacking conditions unless you carry the handgun in your hand chances are a rifle would be faster to get into action than a handgun.  Reason is the rifle is in your hands to start with.  Kind of gets in the way if the rifle is shouldered on it’s sling.  Forget the handgun idea and go with a rifle for protection against bears.  Lawdog
 

[oso45-70]

Teddy,
Like most have said a revolver is not the answer unless you are a competent shooter. A rifle is less likely to let you down, I would also take a bear repellant like pepper spray. The main thing is to be alert at all times. Most bear attacks can be avoided just by being alert to what is going on around you. Best of luck..........Joe...........

[Old Griz]

:cb2: I second the motion on the pepper spray. If you get the right stuff a cloud of pepper spray will turn a bear quicker than a lot of missed, or poorly placed shots—from a handgun or a rifle.

[LMM]

Pepper spray, bear spray, etc....

I bet those bears don't mind a bit of seasoning at all........

[1911crazy]

I read a while back and i think it was lastyear that a guy went near his shed at night with a 410 shotgun and when the bear charged he killed it on the spot.  I'm sure he changed his underwear after it happened.  If it was me in big bear country bigger is better!!  But we do have a split second reaction time to figure in too.  I would up for a 44mag 240gr bullets or bigger and an unlimited supply of  pepper spray too.   BigBill

[Dusty Miller]

I can't imagine how big a canister of pepper spray I'd have to have in order to feel comfortable in bear country!!  As for using a .44 mag. to stop an enraged bear (even a black bear) seems like pure folly to me and I really like my .44 mags.  It takes something like a 12 gage loaded with slugs or a .375 H&H.  Maybe the BFR 45-70 revolver would be adequate to the task, I'm not familiar with the ballistics of that particular gun.  I think the answer is to know what the hell you are doing and learn to avoid them big hairy critters altogether.

[S.B.]

Dusty  Miller, some peoples activities will aways take them where others won't go. Sometimes the load carried will be all that the person will want and the extra weight of a rifle or shotgun or the length will be almost impossible to do. As far as what gun will work in this situation, I'd have to listen to JJHack in the African forum, he's got more experience than all of the rest of us combined. I think you'ld have to remember that the gun you choose will probably carried far more than shot at charging bears.

[S.S.]

Trusting that cloud of pepper spray is foolish in my opinion.
That is something that some crazy liberal has come up with to make
you think you don't need a gun to protect yourself.
Heres an example of why I think it would be foolish. You turn a corner on that nice little Trout stream and find yourself twenty yards from a
Sow and her cub. Needless to say she is pretty pissed off that you
are there. You pull out your trusty "BEAR FOGGER" and take aim.
Problem is that there is a stiff breeze blowing you right in the face.
Out of fear you squeeze the trigger anyway. You now have just gassed
yourself!!! So not only is there a pissed of sow after you, But you can no longer see it. I guess there would be some solice in the fact that
you could not see what was Knawing on you.

[DirtyHarry]

I think pepper spray has its place, but I would NEVER carry only the spray. That is just foolish...

[Camp Cook]

I have heard of to many bear encounters where the bear was sprayed successfully but has come back after the spray has worn off and the people where  :shock: out  :shock: of spray. I couldn't imagine drawing my gun and the spray at the same time and still be fast enough to respond to any kind of a charge. Give me a gun everytime and actually I do not ever carry spray!
Cam

[Lawdog]

I can see NO reason to carry both a rifle and Bear Pepper Spray.  Reason is you are only going to have time for one choice, better make it the right one.  A bear charging from 40 yards away is not going to give you more than 3 seconds to do something.  Just how long does it take to draw the spray canister from the supplied holster?  There are too many instances where Bear Pepper Spray has failed to stop a bear.  A number of times it enraged the bear even more.  Bet my life or the life of a loved one on a spray can seasoning, I DON’T THINK SO.  Lawdog
 

[S.S.]

As an X law officer, I know of way too many instances where
pepper spray didn't even Phase a person sprayed with it.
I would not even consider it as an option to stop an enraged animal.
I know for a fact that it will only piss dogs off! I can only imagine
it's effect on several hundred pounds of ill tempered Bear!

[Winter Hawk]

A while back there was an article going around up here of some researcher spraying an area of beach with pepper spray where bears traveled and observing the outcome.  The bears actually liked it, adn even rolled in it.  I guess it works if you shoot it up their noses, but otherwise it's seasoning to them!  If you feel you must carry a firearm for bears, get a pump shot gun with slugs or go to the Marlin Guide Gun in .450 Marlin or .45-70.  IF you are going to use a handgun save the last shot to put yourself out of your misery when the bear has finished!

-WH-