Strongest 12 GA. pump for bear

[beard01]

I hope this is the right forum for this question. Which pump shotgun has the strongest action which can handle the most violent slugs for bear protection. Some of the new super slugs seem like they would damage or destroy the action. My only experience is with winchester stainless police model. I am afraid slugs like the Dixie Terminator would ruin it. And that slug is probly the best bear medicine.  Beard01 :gun4:

[Daveinthebush]

They are all tested to meet certain proof constraints.  Any of the "new" popular shotguns will work.  If a company manufactures a product like a slug, they too have to meet certian load levels.  If they violate the standards, then they would be liable for a law suit if a customer was hurt.  

I say "new", as metallurgy has improved in the past 50 years or so and the actions are stronger than many years ago.  That is the reason rounds such as the 7X57 are loaded down in the United States as compared to Europe.  There are still questionable firearms out there and manufactures would not want a modern load used in what might be a Spanish American War relic here int he US.

Myself......870 Remington.  I have shot them for 35 years and have never had a misfunction or a problem.

[Paul Barnard]

Remington 870's are really hard to beat for price, availability and quality.  I have Mossberg 590 that would work well in that role.  I'd avoid the Chinese stuff that is beginning to flood the market.

[dukkillr]

one note:  the remmington is a great gun, and i shoot mine during turkey season, but it's very easy to jam when you load in a hurry... the BPS, ithica, or some others can't be jammed in that way...  any pump that can't have the shells drop back out of the magazine would be more reliable if you're trying to reload quickly

[kciH]

There are many good pump guns.  I own 4 870's, 1 590, and a BPS.  I'll admit the 590 has a bayonet lug and the BPS is a 10ga, so they don't see nearly the number of shells the 870's do, as I use the 870's for things that require far more rounds.  Of the 4 870's, I've spilled many rounds through them for hunting and competitive uses.  I know that I've yet to have a malfunction through any of the 870's, with around 25 thousand rounds.  The 590 has had safety problems with heavy loads, and the BPS has it's BPS problems.  I can't tell you why the BPS sometimes fails to feed other than it occasionaly leaves a loaded round on the ground that should be in the chamber.  It could be my mistake, but it seems they all should work the same, and I've shot MANY rounds of skeet, and quite a few game birds and fowl with the 870's without a single malfunction.  My vote goes to the 870 as the most reliable of those I own, which cover the 12,16,20,28 guage spectrum.  The 870 has never cost me a shot at anything, I cannot say the same for the 590 and the BPS..good guns that they are.

[dukkillr]

what i was trying to say is that with the 870 if you don't load the shell into the magazine "until it clicks" you will find it jammed... i agree it's not much of an issue on the trap or skeet range... or even in hunting stituations, UNLESS, you're trying to reload in a hurry, under pressure, and don't get that shell all the way up there... if a bear's headed your way when that happens you're dead...

[Gowge]

Beard, I have it from a very reliable source - the newer Remington 870 actions in 3" and 3-1/2" are the strongest that Remington has ever produced.  IF you want a 3" chamber, just make sure the action was built since Remington came out with their Super-Magnum 3-1/2" shotguns.   The info is that they're BOTH made of the same super strong alloy and proofed far beyond the pressures that destroy plastic shotgun hulls.

Now - about the Dixie Slugs!  

You'll be very pleased to know that Dixie has released a whole NEW slug they're calling the X-Terminator, deisgned expressly for dangerous game, but producing only 10,600psi.   This .730" hard cast slug does 1400fps from a 24" rifled barrrel and weighs - 730gr!  

More info:  http://www.shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=15553

Discussion and calculated comparisons for penetration, knockdown power and other performance issues:  http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=15928

The X-Terminator Slug!  





This brass cased Terminator is under development and might be available next year - maybe in time for the Spring Bear Season?  

GOOD LUCK!  

[beard01]

Thanks for all the replies, glad to hear about the new Dixie slugs!  Beard01

[OrangeWing]

Any of the new guns will work just fine.  What some of the posts were trying to tell you is.  IF you short rack your pump.  What I mean is not rack it ALL the way back you WILL get a jam with the 870.  I have shot 100's of thousands of shotgun shells in more guns then I care to admit.

[S.B.]

If I were to suggest any pump shotgun, it would be the Remington 870. 870's seem to keep right on going, although somewhat slower than a semi auto. Maybe you should ask, which shotgun is used by the military and law enforcement more than any other? These people have to have guns that work the first time and every time, in any weather condition. I'd personally stay away from any of the newer aluminum framed guns, I don't trust them. Maybe the fastest gun in the west, but when the chips are down, I want mine to work. Remember, you won't have a personal gunsmith there to tune your gun for you when you need it and bears aren't going to let you have an excuse to fix a jam. What ever you choose, shoot it a lot and get to know your gun make sure the ammo you choose, works every time in your gun. I'd probably  have an advantage, unless the bear had suction cups on his feet, or could stand up while slipping around in feces.

[RollTide]

When the army did its torture test to select a shotgun for military use, the Mossberg 590 finished on top.  The official army postion is that the Mossberg was the only one which passed its most stringent tests.  Some have said that the Rem 870 also passed, but that the army chose the Mossberg due to price.  I know both the Rem. 870 and the Mossberg 500/590 are used in the military.  In extensive threads I have read elsewhere, it seems that the Mossberg 500/590 and the Rem. 870 are equally tough and reliable, the only real difference are things like the location of the safety and the slide release.  It seems for a regular stock design, the Mossbergs top mounted thumb operated safety has advantages, while for pistol grip stocks the Rem.  trigger group mounted safety may get the nod.  You really can't go wrong with either of these fine guns.  I prefer the Mossbergs, but that is only because that is what I started on way back when and they have never given me a moments problem, when more expensive guns have.  Many others, some here, have have the same experience with 870's, and I don't doubt it for a minute.

Roll Tide

[S.B.]

Aluminum receivered guns always expand like steel receivered guns but after several thousand rounds the aluminum won't contract back to normal. This has been proven and documented in several torture test with time lapsed and stop photography. One of which, I witnessed. Since seeing this I just can't trust aluminum in gun receivers.

[summitx]

my vote for the 870

[Dand]

I have a Mossberg 500 and I'm pleased with it but a few years ago I geared up for a turkey hunt.  I built some heavy 3 inch loads and bought some others.  Can't remember now if it was the factory loads, or more likely my home loads but some of them would cause the bolt to come back but leave the shell still in the chamber - they were really hard kicking loads that caused the extractors to let go.  

While it was no life and death issue for a turkey hunt, it did concern me if I had such a problem in a bear or other defense situation.  I've shot some slugs and a number of heavy steel goose loads since with no problem - but I tend to think the previous advice offered of staying away from aluminum receiver guns might be good.

One other thing though, the Winchester and Mossberg pumps can be faster on the second shot with their action release mechanism.  One spring we did some charging bear drills with targets on a pulley.  The guys with the Mossbergs and Winchester pumps could get their shots off slightly faster-not necessarily more accurate tho.  Folks unfamiliar with the 870 or Ithaca 37s sometimes were slowed by having to push the forearm forward a little to get the action to work and couldn't get off a second shot very well (especially me).  BUT the two guys who had grown up with 870's and shot them a lot were the fastest and most accurate of us all.