Author Topic: Omega and SSTs to 400 yards (Read 1027 times)

AndyHass · « **on:** November 01, 2004, 11:47:39 AM »

I FINALLY got around to doing some long range testing with my Omega and its favorite load, a 200 gr Shockwave over 110gr of FFg 777. This load goes 2115 over the chrono.
I shot at 200, 300, and 400 yards. I have a Leatherwood range-compensating scope on the gun, which I calibrated to compensate for trajectory at 200 and 300 yards. It's supposed to be set from 100-300 yards, but this load shoots too flat to worry about compensating over that range so I was trying to set it from 200-400 instead.
Groups were pretty good. 200 yards averages around 1.75-2". 300 yard groups opened horizontally a bit with the 5-10mph crosswind, going 2.5-5" with the larger groups being obvious horizontal spread (wind drift 6" off center at 300 yards on average).
400 yards was an interesting experiment. First I found that the cam on the scope had problems compensating for the quick drop-off after 300 yards; set to compensate perfectly at 200 and 300 yards, the groups centered about 10" low at 400 yards. Vertical spread of the groups was excellent, only about 3.75" and I'm sure some of that was my less-than-ideal shooting setup. Horizontal spread suffered a lot in the changing wind, averaging about 7-8". The group drifted an additional 16-20" wind drift going from 300 to 400 yards.
While this was a fun target exercise and I'm sure I'll go for 500 yards next spring, it brings up some good points. Even forgetting energy for the moment, even a flat-shooting ML setup such as this becomes very iffy at these ranges for harvesting game. The bullets available today simply do not fly flat enough or resist wind drift enough to make a clean kill reliably. Sure, given a calm wind it wouldn't be a problem, but that is rarely the case in the field around here.
For kicks (bad pun) I chronoed 135gr of 777 with this bullet to see if I could replicate the impressive velocities I have seen reported. I came up with 2215 fps average (range 2205-2220, n=5). This is about in line with what I expected at what I consider the max I would ever shoot from the gun.

Nic_58 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 01, 2004, 02:35:09 PM »

Andy, that's interesting. I've only shot my Omega out to 200 yards but would like to shoot on out a little further someday when time permits. Using the same load as you (110 gr. T7ff, 200 Shockwave), I get 2130 fps average velocity at 10' from the muzzle. It shoots plenty flat enough with a 3" high zero at 100 yds. to be just a tad low at 200 yards. I wouldn't hesitate to take a shot out to 250 yds. if the conditions were all just right with my Omega and this load. I have a Stoney Point target elevation knob on my Leupold so I can dial in the zero quickly for yardages from 200-250 yards. I hunt some open farm country so my extra effort at shooting and dialing in my scope for longer ranges may pay off some day.
I checked the zero on my Omega the other day and the first 3 shots out of a clean barrel at 100 yds. measured just a little over a half inch center to center. There's no doubt that this gun is capable of the long shot!

DEPUTY · « **Reply #2 on:** November 01, 2004, 04:57:24 PM »

Andy were in michigan are you shooting those ranges! since iam here too maybe we can get together and you can shoot my ultimate for giggles as well! a shooter of theres just killed and elk at 425 yds they are using the shepard scopes!

Vapour · « **Reply #3 on:** November 02, 2004, 05:00:22 AM »

I knew I should have come up last weekend.

AndyHass · « **Reply #4 on:** November 02, 2004, 07:15:53 AM »

I live near Metro Airport but my long range shooting is all on farmland up in the Thumb, as is all my gun hunting. The wind can be a problem, but range is not. I can get 600-700 yards easily, 800 is probably doable in the spring and fall when the crops are down.
I've always wanted to shoot one of those Ultimates!

DEPUTY · « **Reply #5 on:** November 02, 2004, 09:44:32 AM »

LET ME KNOW I LIVE IN HOWELL!

Greybeard · « **Reply #6 on:** November 02, 2004, 11:27:45 AM »

Comments like these are exactly the reason I wish all states would out law the use of scopes and inlines both and go back to side hammer guns and round balls or pure lead conicals with no sabots.

Those distances are not even realistic for 95% of the hunters in this country using the most modern of scoped centerfire rifles. Absolutely ridiculous.

DEPUTY · « **Reply #7 on:** November 02, 2004, 11:38:34 AM »

Yes in a hunting situation it is very unreal, for those that shoot and push at the range no big deal for fun!

i still shoot my rengade 54 with irons! out to 100yds

AndyHass · « **Reply #8 on:** November 02, 2004, 12:13:43 PM »

Graybeard,
Maybe you should actually READ my post before you post such a vicious reply. I make it very clear that the purpose of sighting in at 400 yards was not for hunting; in fact, I point out that the wind drift caused by relatively light winds makes a clean kill unlikely EVEN IF the bullet had sufficient energy at that range....I do not consider 400-500 ft-lbs sufficient.
If anything, this post DISCOURAGES ultra long range ML hunting with actual shooting results, not just a gut dislike of someone shooting an animal with a "primitive" weapon at extended ranges.

AndyHass · « **Reply #9 on:** November 02, 2004, 12:18:08 PM »

In addendum, just because I may say I do something doesn't mean I advocate 80% of other hunters even attempt it. I am a former competitive shooter with formal training. With iron sights I have made clean kills out to 200 yards with a sidelock (and NEVER a non-chest hit with a ML in more than 30 deer), but I picked my shots carefully and would not recommend that many people try it. That doesn't mean it was unethical for ME to do.
I have put more than $200 in ammunition through my new Omega getting it ready for its first season. It is likely I know that gun better than a lot of hunters know the ones they have fielded for several years.

Nic_58 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 02, 2004, 03:44:42 PM »

Quote from: AndyHass

It is likely I know that gun better than a lot of hunters know the ones they have fielded for several years.

I hear ya, Andy! It's all about knowing your equipment and your capabilities. There's nothing like real world testing to gain the confidence a person needs to attempt the long shot. The latest in-line ML's, projectiles and powders offer the meticulous and proficient shooter the ability to make clean shots on deer sized animals at 200+ yards with the right practice. Although I will admit there is a VERY small percentage of ML shooters whom I am aquainted with who are capable of those kinds of shots. I didn't get into muzzleloading for the nostalgic aspect of it. If I were limited to non-scoped ML's and patched round balls, I would probably never have gotten into this sport that I now enjoy so much!

Graybeard · « **Reply #11 on:** November 02, 2004, 05:55:51 PM »

Quote

I live near Metro Airport but my long range shooting is all on farmland up in the Thumb, as is all my gun hunting. The wind can be a problem, but range is not. I can get 600-700 yards easily, 800 is probably doable in the spring and fall when the crops are down.
I've always wanted to shoot one of those Ultimates!

I see absolutely NOTHING in that to tell me it is target shooting only and a lot of reason to at least "think" it refers to hunting.

If you're talking ONLY target shooting then fine. I fully agree push the limits all you like and have fun. But any talk of shooting game at such ranges is utter none sense. That's the only point I was trying to get across. I suspect that most anyone not knowing you fairly well would assume like me it was hunting you were referring to in the above quote.

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #12 on:** November 02, 2004, 08:47:16 PM »

I wish the comments about eliminating scopes and inlines would not keep coming up. Arizona allows both and I use both. With my 67 year old eyes iron sights just don't work so well anymore. I want to make a clean kill on Elk and with the scope and my Omega sighted at 100 yards I do fairly well at 100 yards or less. My first Elk was 80 yards and the one last year was 45 yards. I do not hunt where shots exceed 125 yards. There are enough people trying to stop us all from hunting so lets not kill each other. I am a cancer survivor and I need the meat to avoid the contamination from the commercial stuff. If you want to be totally traditional then I would think that you should at least restrict the traditional comments to the traditional portion of this site. End of soapbox.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 03, 2004, 01:05:05 AM »

Keith Lewis, I have to agree with you on your statement. As I have been following this thread, I understood what AndyHass meant. As I see it Graybeard, your comment about scopes and inlines was uncalled for. IMHO.

Quote

Comments like these are exactly the reason I wish all states would out law the use of scopes and inlines both and go back to side hammer guns and round balls or pure lead conicals with no sabots.

AndyHass · « **Reply #14 on:** November 03, 2004, 02:10:25 AM »

"While this was a fun target exercise and I'm sure I'll go for 500 yards next spring, it brings up some good points. Even forgetting energy for the moment, even a flat-shooting ML setup such as this becomes very iffy at these ranges for harvesting game. The bullets available today simply do not fly flat enough or resist wind drift enough to make a clean kill reliably"

This was from the FIRST post in the thread. If you want to know what a thread is talking about, you must read the whole thing and not just my one reply in the middle....it was just a reply. The above clearly states that these results demonstrated that these setups are not for 400 yard hunting.
I will, however, kill that big 8.5X11" I keep seeing out in the field just as far as I can launch a slug.