Author Topic: Ruger #1 Accuracy Issues? (Read 2961 times)

gcf · « **on:** November 02, 2004, 12:26:02 PM »

Been considering the purchase of a #1S in 45-70. It would be my first #1, & first big bore rifle. My intent would be to hand load for accuracy & terminal ballistics.

My son owns a #1V in 22-250 that does 1 MOA w/ factory ammo.

My concern is the mixed input on #1 accuracy. Some report one ragged hole, some report selling their rifle in frustration.

My personal feeling is poor accuracy in a well built rifle, is probably the result of the load.

Any input based on experience would be greatly appreciated, as I'm really getting that big bore itch. Thanks in advance!

Prince of Wales · « **Reply #1 on:** November 03, 2004, 05:24:19 AM »

gcf I agree with what you are saying. The 45/70 is certainly not considered a target round in modern times but there were a lot of old buffalo hunters that considered it the cats meow in their time. I`ve heard tales of the kind of accuracy they were capable of and its pretty impressive what one can do with a gun and round that you have become familiar with.
As you say the Ruger #1 is a fine rifle and no reason to think that it will not deliver fine accuracy once a load is found that it likes. Good luck. POW

Cuz · « **Reply #2 on:** November 03, 2004, 06:40:15 AM »

I shoot a #1-B and I have NO difficulities with accuracy.

But, then I am a shooter and NOT a powder burner. From what I have heard of the complainers is that the 'barrel warps' after about the 10th or 15th round shot in rapid succession. I mean just as fast as they can work the action and shoot.

Yes, I 'burn' lots of powder but not in this fashion. Use a chrony, shot log, spotting scope and Lee Loader at each session at the range. When hunting, only 1 shot is needed. Why, then, shoot 15 rounds so fast thru a single fire weapon so as to create a 'barrel warp' (their word not mine)? If they wish to shoot so fast, why not get a BAR?

My #1-B is chambered .257 Roberts and I shoot it LOTS out to 200 yds. All my rounds are hand loads and I have achieved an under 1" MOA. My weapon was never 'all over' the target, but I was after a tight group for hunting. You might be surprised just how much a slight variation in a load will effect the bullet strike.

I believe you will enjoy the #1 IF you use it as a SINGLE SHOT weapon. At least, I enjoy mine and so do my grandchildren, I take they to the range, and hunting, with me. After all, someone has to shoot all these hand-loaded cartridges, so I can load more!!

Cuz

captainkirk · « **Reply #3 on:** November 03, 2004, 11:55:31 AM »

I felt pretty much the sames as you in wanting a big-bore single shot. I considered the 45-70 but went with the 458 instead because of its heavier and longer barrel. I generally shoot 45-70 level loads in it though. E.g. 25-30 grains of SR 4759 behind a 450-500 grain cast bullet. This was my primary aim for this rifle and it can "shoot" better than I can "cast" bullets. That is to say the practical limit of its accuracy so far has been the quality of bullets I feed it. I bought mine used on the 'net for around $500 shipped and it is a 1981 vintage with the red recoil pad.

Enjoy- the Ruger #1 is truly a fine rifle.

captainkirk

gcf · « **Reply #4 on:** November 03, 2004, 02:01:26 PM »

Quote from: Cuz

I shoot a #1-B and I have NO difficulities with accuracy.

But, then I am a shooter and NOT a powder burner.
Cuz

Hey Cuz -
Thanks for your input. If pickin' up my brass with a snow shovel is what I'm in the mood for, I've got other choices in the safe!

Fact is, I have found myself looking more towards hand load accuracy from a quality firearm, of late. I go for accurate shot placement, & limit my range sessions to 30 - 40 rounds over 2 - 3 hours.

I guess my biggest concern here is shelling out for a new rifle, & then discovering that the dog just won't hunt - no matter what!

marlinman93 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 03, 2004, 02:17:46 PM »

I also own a Ruger #1 in .45-70, and it's a tack driver! I had a #1 Tropical in .458 Win Mag, but too heavy on the recoil, even when loaded to .45-90 specs. I found my #1 Lyman Centennial for a great price since it had been fired, and I liked the longer, heavier barrel, and caliber.
DeHaas' book covers a fix for the few #1's that wont shoot target type accuracy, and I've tried it on a friend's #1 in .22-250 with excellent results. His gun went from shooting 1" groups with the occasional 2" flyer, to shooting all under 1" groups.

gcf · « **Reply #6 on:** November 03, 2004, 04:10:26 PM »

Quote from: captainkirk

I considered the 45-70 but went with the 458 instead because of its heavier and longer barrel.

captainkirk

CK -
Although I already own a long / heavy barrel rifle (see the "hope it works" link to my 7.62 Rem 5-R below), I kind of like the light load 458 concept that you describe.

For the moment at least, I really am kind of stuck on the medium sporter (No. 1-S) idea. Just concerned that the No. 1 platform will be a good bet for accuracy, not just luck of the draw.

As you bought your rifle used, do you have any idea how many rounds are on it?

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/gcfron@swbell.net/detail?.dir=c297&.dnm=62a8.jpg&.src=ph

gcf · « **Reply #7 on:** November 03, 2004, 04:26:23 PM »

Quote from: marlinman93

I also own a Ruger #1 in .45-70, and it's a tack driver! I had a #1 Tropical in .458 Win Mag, but too heavy on the recoil, even when loaded to .45-90 specs. I found my #1 Lyman Centennial for a great price since it had been fired, and I liked the longer, heavier barrel, and caliber.
DeHaas' book covers a fix for the few #1's that wont shoot target type accuracy, and I've tried it on a friend's #1 in .22-250 with excellent results. His gun went from shooting 1" groups with the occasional 2" flyer, to shooting all under 1" groups.

MM93 -
Well Sir, you have my interest. Don't suppose you could post a pic of your Centennial?

I am not familiar w/ the DeHaas book to which you refer. Can you provide any more detail, such as title, content, etc.? And just for the record, what does the "fix" entail? Enquiring minds would really like to know! ;=] Thanks.

50 Calshtr · « **Reply #8 on:** November 04, 2004, 04:43:30 AM »

About ten days ago I shot a 3/4 inch 5shot group with my #1 45/70, one ragged hole. If you need better than that you have my sympathy. Load was Rem brass, CCI 200 primers, 50 Gr IMR 4198, 300 Gr Hornady HPs. This rifle has always shot very well for me and is a real pleasure to hunt with, get one, you will not be disapointed. By the way, one shot kill on a 250 lb wild hog a couple of days after the group was shot, have taken 20+ animals with this combination, never a second shot needed.

gcf · « **Reply #9 on:** November 04, 2004, 05:08:30 AM »

Quote from: 50 Calshtr

About ten days ago I shot a 3/4 inch 5shot group with my #1 45/70, one ragged hole. If you need better than that you have my sympathy. Load was Rem brass, CCI 200 primers, 50 Gr IMR 4198, 300 Gr Hornady HPs. This rifle has always shot very well for me and is a real pleasure to hunt with, get one, you will not be disapointed. By the way, one shot kill on a 250 lb wild hog a couple of days after the group was shot, have taken 20+ animals with this combination, never a second shot needed.

50 Cal -
One ragged hole, is as good as I could personally hope for. Congrats on that!

And thanks for the load data. Do you ever load hard cast for this rifle? If so, what results have you had?

I assume that you have optics mounted on this rifle.... Would you care to make a recommendation w/ regards to a practical scope & rings combo?

Thanks in advance!

marlinman93 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 04, 2004, 12:54:06 PM »

gcf,
Yes, the book by DeHaas is Mr Single Shot's Gunsmithing -Idea Book. It is one of four books on single shot rifles that DeHaas wrote. His first book, Single Shot Rifles and Actions is the best book ever written on general info about most single shot rifles.
Most the fellas here have seen my #1, but here it is again!

captainkirk · « **Reply #11 on:** November 04, 2004, 01:00:54 PM »

Quote from: gcf

Quote from: captainkirk
I considered the 45-70 but went with the 458 instead because of its heavier and longer barrel.

captainkirk

CK -
Although I already own a long / heavy barrel rifle (see the "hope it works" link to my 7.62 Rem 5-R below), I kind of like the light load 458 concept that you describe.

For the moment at least, I really am kind of stuck on the medium sporter (No. 1-S) idea. Just concerned that the No. 1 platform will be a good bet for accuracy, not just luck of the draw.

As you bought your rifle used, do you have any idea how many rounds are on it?

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/gcfron@swbell.net/detail?.dir=c297&.dnm=62a8.jpg&.src=ph

No idea how many rounds went through this one, but most 458s aren't shot much. Don't get me wrong about the 45-70 though, they are great guns, easy to carry, can be loaded to oliphaunt whalloper loads, etc. The centennial is very nice also, I just didn't have that much to spend.

Captainkirk

50 Calshtr · « **Reply #12 on:** November 05, 2004, 05:12:17 AM »

GCF,
I haven't tried cast in the #1 but do use RCBS 300 and 405 gas checked in a rolling block 45-70 with very good results. In the #1 you could push a hard cast bullet as fast as leading would allow, probably approaching 2000 fps depending on hardness and lube. I have a Burris 2-7 compact on the #1. Like the size and the lack of bulk, seems to keep the center of gravity lower if you know what I mean. It generally stays set in the lower range, 3 or so, unless I'm in more open areas and in a treestand. I bought the rifle for it's compactness and ease of handling on the ground and in a tree, couldn't see putting a big honking 3-9 on it that weighed as much as the rifle.
Best.

marlinman93 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 05, 2004, 03:22:18 PM »

CaptKirk,
I didn't have that much to spend either! I traded a $450 Ballard #2 in .38 Long, for this Centtennial!

captainkirk · « **Reply #14 on:** November 05, 2004, 04:53:14 PM »

Quote from: marlinman93

CaptKirk,
I didn't have that much to spend either! I traded a $450 Ballard #2 in .38 Long, for this Centtennial!

Sounds like you have the touch! I either get to the table right after you left, OR I was the one at the table giving the good deal :cry:

JC · « **Reply #15 on:** November 08, 2004, 10:02:46 AM »

In response to CUZ,
I have a #1 in 2506 I do my hand loads, I had my fore end floated and it will shoot half to quarter moa, depending on how much coffee I have had in the previous days. It really loves 100 grain matchkings and 117 gamekings. I had one in 458 and I kick myself for letting it go, but needed the money. It shot awesome groups with WW brass, FA 215 primers, 72gr Rel 7 and a hornady 350 RN

Cuz · « **Reply #16 on:** November 09, 2004, 09:08:13 AM »

JC, by floated, I am guessing you had it laid in glass?? I know a couple of folks that had this done by a local gunsmith. Their groups are similiar to yours. I use my #1 to hunt and my groups are satisfactory, BUT if I were in match shooting, would probably glass my barrel as well. Did you do the work or have it done??
My favorite load is Hornady 117 gr, CCI primer and IMR 4350 powder. I have worked this one into a 3/4" group. And this will do for deer.
Your 25-06 will push a bit faster but I can stay close. Have had a .257 Roberts for years and love it for accuracy and LACK of recoil. Have used it to teach my boys and my grandchildren. It is a grand deer gun.

I know we all have our favorite and I will confess that IF I have gotten a 25-06 first, it would probably be my pick as well. I am of the opinion that the 25 caliber is the #1 deer rifle. Works well, in the hands of a shooter, on larger game as well.

Cuz

JC · « **Reply #17 on:** November 09, 2004, 09:21:05 AM »

Cuz,
It was glassed by my smith here localy. He does work for the Chattanooga SWAT team. I have a load with the 100 grain Sierra and 53 grains of 4350. It is sweet but above max. It worked in my rifle after slowly working up and under supervision of a bullet tech.

MickinColo · « **Reply #18 on:** November 11, 2004, 03:29:06 PM »

Ive owned a number of Ruger #1s. I own 2 at this time, a 7mm Remington Mag and a 220 Swift. I have owned 2 other 7 mms, and a 300 Winchester Mag. I sold the other #1s because someone offered to buy them for more money than I thought they where worth (I wish I had one or two of them back). Ive only had an issue with one # 1 as far as out of the box accuracy goes. That was one of the 7mm, all the rest where or are dead on, no problems. The 7mm I own now shoots a max of .780 of a 5-shoot group (this is not the best #1 Ive owned). And the swift shoots a 3-shoot .250 group every time it goes to the rife range. All though I dont own a 45-70 in a Ruger #1, I cant imagine that it wouldnt be accurate.

Prince of Wales · « **Reply #19 on:** November 12, 2004, 10:57:53 AM »

cuz floating and bedding are different and nearly opposite terms in meaning.
To float a barrel meant that it does not touch the stock. Usually a piece of paper or dollar bill is used to demonstrate the clearance between barrel and stock. A preventive measure to insure forend does not bind barrel causing an accuracy issue.
Floating is done by using a glass resin and release agent to seat the action into the stock. Again this is done to insure a fit that will not cause binding. Good luck. POW

thelaw · « **Reply #20 on:** November 23, 2004, 10:51:57 AM »

can you adjust the trigger pull on a #1? i would like to have one in .280, but would like to be able to adjust the trigger.

gcf · « **Reply #21 on:** November 23, 2004, 11:17:51 AM »

Well, after all the arm twistin', you guys have got me convinced! Only two questions now:
1. New or used?
2. Blued or stainless?

Anyone w/ a clean #1S in 45-70 in need of a good home, feel free to sing out anytime.....

Additional comments are activly being encouraged, at this time! ;=]

MickinColo · « **Reply #22 on:** November 23, 2004, 01:27:45 PM »

Thelaw,

Factory triggers on the No 1s are not adjustable (pull weight anyway). But there are a number of after market triggers that are.

Gcf,

I dont care much for stainless myself, thats just me though. I always buy new if Im going to keep the gun for a while but again, thats just me.

gcf · « **Reply #23 on:** November 23, 2004, 02:37:17 PM »

Quote from: MickinColo

Gcf,

I dont care much for stainless myself, thats just me though. I always buy new if Im going to keep the gun for a while but again, thats just me.

I know what you mean about stainless - at least in this style of rifle. For me, in a bolt action rifle, a 1911, or a S&W big bore revolver, it's six of one / half a dozen of the other. Sure is something about a blue #1 though.

My concern is corrosion. Although I buy my CLP in the BIG bottle, the S. Texas coast has got humidity issues that just won't quit.

Guess I'll just have to see what comes up...... Appreciate your input, regardless.

MickinColo · « **Reply #24 on:** November 23, 2004, 03:10:22 PM »

Gcf,

I understand the humidity problem in areas of the USA. I have a SS handgun and have owned SS guns in the past. You buy what you need, I would still buy a new weapon though. A new gun doesnt have someones bad habits inflicted on it.

marlinman93 · « **Reply #25 on:** November 25, 2004, 08:26:53 AM »

gcf,
I'm partial to blued guns, because they just look more traditional, but sometimes function needs to win over asthetics. A good cleaning and treatment before and after the hunt should make a blued gun last forever, even in the salt air.
At the price difference between new and used #1's I'd sure go for a clean used one over the new ones! I see like new #1's in my neck of the woods quite often for $450-$500, and that's a big savings over new. I always prefer to spend that extra money on accessories and ammo, and let someone else take the initial loss.

gcf · « **Reply #26 on:** November 25, 2004, 12:52:26 PM »

Quote from: marlinman93

gcf,
I'm partial to blued guns, because they just look more traditional, but sometimes function needs to win over asthetics.

Sometimes, but I've always felt that if I am to have a pot load of money sunk into a firearm, I want to enjoy looking at it, as well as shooting it!

I think that the passion for these single shot rifles is really based on asthetics, and begins to grow way before we ever own one.

In fact, I just made an e-mail proposal for an early (possibly unfired) blue #1S in 45-70. We'll see if it pans out.

Just call me chompin' at the bit!

marlinman93 · « **Reply #27 on:** November 25, 2004, 03:39:52 PM »

Oh you're definitely right about the eye appeal! Long before I bought my first single shot, I fell in love with the looks of them!
Now with 7 schuetzen rifles, and an unknown number of other single shots, I'm still weak in the knees at the sight of a beautiful single shot!

gcf · « **Reply #28 on:** January 10, 2005, 12:08:42 PM »

Quote from: marlinman93

...... I'm still weak in the knees at the sight of a beautiful single shot!

Sure know what you mean. Helps if it'll shoot a good group though! ;=]

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/gcfron@swbell.net/detail?.dir=c297&.dnm=c2ee.jpg&.src=ph

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/gcfron@swbell.net/detail?.dir=c297&.dnm=5422.jpg&.src=ph

Have · « **Reply #29 on:** February 02, 2005, 11:11:26 AM »

Well, read this thread twice and went out and bought used "B" in 25-06.

Shame on you guys for tempting me like that.

Tsk! Tsk!

Now, how do I get it around the Mrs. :]

BTW, I had Encore 30-06 and decided to go ther other way.

Thanks for good information...