Author Topic: First post, and a liberal too!  (Read 7210 times)

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Offline deb

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First post, and a liberal too!
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2004, 06:55:55 AM »
Sorry for not making myself clear. I was not singling out anyone in particular, just making a general comment for most liberals who tend to visit these forums and bash conservative logic.

But, are you one of those who supported Kerry, like my dad, and said "he won't take our guns, he's a hunter himself."  While the very semi-auto shotgun that was presented to him in VA, that he so graciously accepted, would have been illegal under his proposed ban.  Or how about the spiffy new camo he donned for the media to film him goose hunting, he refused to be seen carrying any of the birds he supposedly shot, so he wouldn't offend any friends of animals?  I can't for the life of me understand how any true sportsman could support him?
This is just one of many, many issues I have concerning him.  I am so glad the election is over, and people of morals have won!

Deb  :-)

Offline IntrepidWizard

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Offline Dali Llama

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« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2004, 08:02:24 AM »
Quote from: jh45gun
I think Bo's post is to bait us and is a troll.
Dali Llama say he concur. :twisted:  :x  :evil:
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Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2004, 09:49:32 AM »
Good post Deb!  :grin:
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline NYH1

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« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2004, 11:39:11 AM »
I'm not a republican or a democrat. I'm in the middle, closer to the right but in the middle never the less. The main thing that got me was the fact that John Kerry said he owns a "preban chinese SKS assault rifle", but he's in favor of the "Clinton Assault Weapons Ban". How can you tell me I can't own the same thing or something similar to what you have. John Kerry is not in law enforcement, he doesn't need or can't justify owning an "assault rifle" any more then I can. I'm am in no way saying that any law abiding "US" citizen should have to justify owning any firearm. Obviously John Kerry doesn't feel the same way. Where I come from, "what's good for the goose is good for the gander"!

The democratic party is in big trouble, and rightfully so. They keep catering to "big cities" and urban area's and seem to forget about the rest of the people. They concentrate on the area's that have more people grouped together so they can get their votes. I live in a city of just under 150,000 people and a county with around 450,000 people. I'm not saying the cities aren't important because they are, but so aren't the rest of the people.
"ROLL TIDE". . .Back To Back. . .Three In The Last Four Years "GO GIANTS"  "YANKEES"

Offline SAWgunner

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« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2004, 01:41:41 PM »
To the above posts :

(edit:) C/O brdavis and badbo
   
      First of all, attending college is a shaky representation of the word "education".  Having received a Bachelors in General Studies (working towards a MBA in Mechanical Engineering) I have sat in my fair share of classrooms.  Anyone, that can afford it, can sit in a classroom and be lectured.  Anyone that can read has every opportunity to get themselves a library card.  Combine the two (if anyone is interested, I will sit here and lecture them and assign reading.  When you have done this for as long as I think you should, I will email a diploma from SAWgunner University) and you have a a piece of paper awarded to you for being able to not think for yourself.  I hated college because it wore me down arguing with "professors".  

     Now that we have both leveled ourselves as college educated men, I will throw in my Ace.  What you have undoubtably read about and described in your Poli-Sci and current events papers, I have seen with my two issued optical devices.  You, sir, may argue until you are blue in the face about how it is wrong to be in Iraq.  I have looked into hundreds of Iraqi's eyes.  Have you?  Do you understand what it is like to know that your children may be hung from a goal post because they will not conform?  I do not either, but it has been described to me by Afghani citizens.  

     Whatever the cause of our involvement in Iraq, your brethren that share your political views have spit in the face of the Iraqi people.  Become a man and send them letters describing how you and the self-promoted "elite" of the United States have, based on your college "educations", decided that since you do not agree with the reasons we came there, they can be tortured to death.  I will help you out.

     Start with this,

     "Dear Iraqi person(s),
   
          I am writing on behalf of the liberalistic people of America which        includes such brilliant people as most of our actors in Hollywood and our worldly educated college professors (this will undoubtably impress them and hook them into reading further).  We understand what it is like to be in your shoes, because some of us were once labeled as "nerds" (always sympathize with your subject).  We hated being called nerds, so we went to school and now compete with the Jones' to make sure the new model year Lexus SUV is in our garage.  So all you have to do is go to school, and the years of being tortured to death and gassed will be a distant memory (Always offer a good solution).  Throughout history governments have taken care of their unarmed citizens, so if you could just hand in all of your guns, Your problems will be solved (throw in a little extra, it sounds fair and it will get them to do what we want).  Oh wait, you did that.  Oh well.  

Yours truly,

Michael Moore (Have someone that the Iraqi people will be impressed with to sign it) "

     That should get you started.  Feel free to sign with your surname (I picked Michael Moore because he has impressed me as the world's foremost expert on Iraqi history) and to add the word "like" after every third word if this letter is sent by one of your educated Californian counterparts.

     In short, the only people that you are impressing are your fellow POC's (Prisoners of Cubicles) at the water cooler Monday morning with your manly tales of outwitting the "Blue Collar" Republican crowd on a website.  

Your friend,

SAWgunner

P.S.  (That means post script to all of you rednecked not college educated folks in here (remember, speak their lingo))  Don't tell any of your friends that you know of an educated Republican that owns a gun.  Worlds will collide and end as we know it.
Nosce Hostem
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Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2004, 02:16:54 PM »
Quote from: SAWgunner
To the above posts :

(edit:) C/O brdavis and badbo
   
      First of all, attending college is a shaky representation of the word "education".  Having received a Bachelors in General Studies (working towards a MBA in Mechanical Engineering) I have sat in my fair share of classrooms.  Anyone, that can afford it, can sit in a classroom and be lectured.  Anyone that can read has every opportunity to get themselves a library card.  Combine the two (if anyone is interested, I will sit here and lecture them and assign reading.  When you have done this for as long as I think you should, I will email a diploma from SAWgunner University) and you have a a piece of paper awarded to you for being able to not think for yourself.  I hated college because it wore me down arguing with "professors".  

     Now that we have both leveled ourselves as college educated men, I will throw in my Ace.  What you have undoubtably read about and described in your Poli-Sci and current events papers, I have seen with my two issued optical devices.  You, sir, may argue until you are blue in the face about how it is wrong to be in Iraq.  I have looked into hundreds of Iraqi's eyes.  Have you?  Do you understand what it is like to know that your children may be hung from a goal post because they will not conform?  I do not either, but it has been described to me by Afghani citizens.  

     Whatever the cause of our involvement in Iraq, your brethren that share your political views have spit in the face of the Iraqi people.  Become a man and send them letters describing how you and the self-promoted "elite" of the United States have, based on your college "educations", decided that since you do not agree with the reasons we came there, they can be tortured to death.  I will help you out.

     Start with this,

     "Dear Iraqi person(s),
   
          I am writing on behalf of the liberalistic people of America which        includes such brilliant people as most of our actors in Hollywood and our worldly educated college professors (this will undoubtably impress them and hook them into reading further).  We understand what it is like to be in your shoes, because some of us were once labeled as "nerds" (always sympathize with your subject).  We hated being called nerds, so we went to school and now compete with the Jones' to make sure the new model year Lexus SUV is in our garage.  So all you have to do is go to school, and the years of being tortured to death and gassed will be a distant memory (Always offer a good solution).  Throughout history governments have taken care of their unarmed citizens, so if you could just hand in all of your guns, Your problems will be solved (throw in a little extra, it sounds fair and it will get them to do what we want).  Oh wait, you did that.  Oh well.  

Yours truly,

Michael Moore (Have someone that the Iraqi people will be impressed with to sign it) "

     That should get you started.  Feel free to sign with your surname (I picked Michael Moore because he has impressed me as the world's foremost expert on Iraqi history) and to add the word "like" after every third word if this letter is sent by one of your educated Californian counterparts.

     In short, the only people that you are impressing are your fellow POC's (Prisoners of Cubicles) at the water cooler Monday morning with your manly tales of outwitting the "Blue Collar" Republican crowd on a website.  

Your friend,

SAWgunner

P.S.  (That means post script to all of you rednecked not college educated folks in here (remember, speak their lingo))  Don't tell any of your friends that you know of an educated Republican that owns a gun.  Worlds will collide and end as we know it.
:)  :)  :)
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline powderman

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« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2004, 02:36:22 PM »
SAWGUNNER. Good post Sir. POWDERMAN.  :D  :D  :D  :D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
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Offline VTDW

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« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2004, 02:48:15 PM »
It looks as though some folks think we are all a bunch of uneducated rednecks. :D

Dave :D
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Offline IntrepidWizard

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« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2004, 03:14:34 PM »
Ain't we dave?
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline wareagleguy

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« Reply #40 on: November 05, 2004, 03:39:43 PM »
Not sure where all this is going but what is all this got to do with someone talking about respecting a different point of view?  You know nothing about me as I know nothing about you.  I simply see things different than you but don't label or even try.  
 
I'll give you my short life here...  
Born in good ol' Alabama.  
Son of a hard working single mother.  She educated herself with a masters degree in mathematics and chemistry.  
I worked on my grandfather farm until my first job a 12 years old (real full time at a gas station).  Graduated high school while I worked FULL TIME night shift from the time I was 16 years old.  Graduated college with a degree in computer science while working full time and paid for college myself.  Found a job using my computer skills and finally purchased my grandfathers farm and also running a full time poultry business and full time computer geek.  During all this I managed to marry (20 years now) and have a 12 year old daughter. This is my life and proud of it.  
 
Now you know more that you ever did about me.  I make my choices from the life I have lived as all you have.   As I have said before, why can't people respect a difference of opinion?
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Offline ironglow

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« Reply #41 on: November 05, 2004, 03:42:33 PM »
I still don't have an answer as to how the Liberals among us justify the "brain-sucking" procedure being done on little boys and girls while they are being born..

    Do you Liberals consider some humans as "less worthy"?

   Please Libs...give us an answer...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline IntrepidWizard

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« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2004, 03:48:55 PM »
Davis,how in the 4377 could you be self employed and be a Liberal?
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline powderman

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« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2004, 03:55:16 PM »
Opinions about some things I can tolerate. There are some things not negotiatable. The intentional killing of a child is murder, not choice. There are only 2 choices, life, or death. Homosexuals are an abomination in Gods eyes, not an alternate lifestyle, read the book. I will gladly supply chapters and verses if need be, but doubt if several of you have a Bible anyway. I didn't say these things, God did. Ironglow asked a reasonable question, we await an answer. Another point I'd like to make is that education and common sense are not even close to being the same thing.  Pardon me for taking Gods side on these issues. POWDERMAN.  :D  :D  :D  :D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #44 on: November 05, 2004, 04:52:11 PM »
Quote from: powderman
Opinions about some things I can tolerate. There are some things not negotiatable. The intentional killing of a child is murder, not choice. There are only 2 choices, life, or death. Homosexuals are an abomination in Gods eyes, not an alternate lifestyle, read the book. I will gladly supply chapters and verses if need be, but doubt if several of you have a Bible anyway. I didn't say these things, God did. Ironglow asked a reasonable question, we await an answer. Another point I'd like to make is that education and common sense are not even close to being the same thing.  Pardon me for taking Gods side on these issues. POWDERMAN.  :D  :D  :D  :D


Don't forget to add the gun issue also Powderman as that is why most of us are here. Then I guess I just did!  :)  :)  :)
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline Dali Llama

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« Reply #45 on: November 05, 2004, 05:06:48 PM »
Quote from: brdavis
I'll give you my short life here...  
Born in good ol' Alabama.  
Son of a hard working single mother.  She educated herself with a masters degree in mathematics and chemistry.  
I worked on my grandfather farm until my first job a 12 years old (real full time at a gas station).  Graduated high school while I worked FULL TIME night shift from the time I was 16 years old.  Graduated college with a degree in computer science while working full time and paid for college myself.  Found a job using my computer skills and finally purchased my grandfathers farm and also running a full time poultry business and full time computer geek.  During all this I managed to marry (20 years now) and have a 12 year old daughter.
Well, gee whiz, I do declare we got us a a regular ol' Horatio Alger here, say Dali Llama!! :)  :-D  :-D  :-D  :)
AKA "Blademan52" from Marlin Talk

Offline wareagleguy

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« Reply #46 on: November 05, 2004, 05:11:35 PM »
Powderman,  
I don't have all the answers and don't totally agree with the "liberals".  
Al Quata have are just a passionate about their god as we are.  Not trying to insult you but only making a point.  You simply have your faith and so do we all.  
   
My convictions are with how I see my government and how it should govern.   I don't see abortion as a black and white issue as you.  I just don't want a government involved with that and that is the best I can answer it.  I for one will never understand homosexuals and don't want to know.  However, I don't want the government involved in controlling that either.  How can I be self employed and liberal?  While I want the government out of our lives in most issues I also believe that it care for it's underprivileged.  I know people abuse welfare but I know others truly need it.  I find may conservatives views to almost greedy when it came to this issue.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Offline Dali Llama

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« Reply #47 on: November 05, 2004, 05:31:30 PM »
Quote from: brdavis

I don't have all the answers
Dali Llama say he find that surprising, as he thought liberals have ALL answers to ALL questions. :)  :-D  :)
AKA "Blademan52" from Marlin Talk

Offline Big Hext Finnigan

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« Reply #48 on: November 05, 2004, 06:15:57 PM »
This has been a fairly friendly exchange, considering the dividing nature of the topic and the participants.  Please continue to refer to issues and not personalities.. the veiled expressions are still clear, let's drop them as well.

Adios,
But what is liberty without wisdom, and without virtue? It is the greatest of all possible evils; for it is folly, vice, and madness, without tuition or restraint.  - Edmund Burke

Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #49 on: November 05, 2004, 06:53:27 PM »
Quote from: Big Hext Finnigan
This has been a fairly friendly exchange, considering the dividing nature of the topic and the participants.  Please continue to refer to issues and not personalities.. the veiled expressions are still clear, let's drop them as well.

Adios,


Most of us here have used general terms in this discussion and I have not seen it get out of hand yet. In fact I think we have handled it well all things considering.
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline Hooker

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« Reply #50 on: November 05, 2004, 06:55:15 PM »
Quote from: VTDW
It looks as though some folks think we are all a bunch of uneducated rednecks. :D

Dave :D


I resemble that remark. I never finished high school didn't go to trade school. Am I intelligent? Maybe not by some peoples standards. If it's broke I can fix it. If it's a problem I can find a solution. I know the opposite of Right is not Left It's wrong.
I know liberal BS when I see it, And I spend most of my time getting educated people out of the messes they get them selves into. :grin:  :grin:  :grin:

Pat
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Offline Big Hext Finnigan

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« Reply #51 on: November 05, 2004, 07:15:13 PM »
Quote from: jh45gun
Quote from: Big Hext Finnigan
This has been a fairly friendly exchange, considering the dividing nature of the topic and the participants.  Please continue to refer to issues and not personalities.. the veiled expressions are still clear, let's drop them as well.

Adios,


Most of us here have used general terms in this discussion and I have not seen it get out of hand yet. In fact I think we have handled it well all things considering.


I think that's what I was saying.. wasn't I?  :wink:
However it is at this point where threads seem to go bad.. somebody has to push the envelope and rip it.  And rather than just play the heavy, I'm making a statement about a few comments that, if taken differently, could have led us down the negative spiral.
But what is liberty without wisdom, and without virtue? It is the greatest of all possible evils; for it is folly, vice, and madness, without tuition or restraint.  - Edmund Burke

Offline Greybeard

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« Reply #52 on: November 05, 2004, 07:29:44 PM »
As Festus used to say in the old Gunsmoke episodes, "I'm all over this one like ugly on ape".

I'll handle any problems that crop up. Well unless I'm the one who causes them that is.  :eek:


Bill aka the Graybeard
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Offline Big Hext Finnigan

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« Reply #53 on: November 05, 2004, 09:00:42 PM »
Quote from: Greybeard
As Festus used to say in the old Gunsmoke episodes, "I'm all over this one like ugly on ape".

I'll handle any problems that crop up. Well unless I'm the one who causes them that is.  :eek:


 :)  :)  :)
But what is liberty without wisdom, and without virtue? It is the greatest of all possible evils; for it is folly, vice, and madness, without tuition or restraint.  - Edmund Burke

Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #54 on: November 06, 2004, 01:36:02 AM »
Quote from: Big Hext Finnigan
Quote from: jh45gun
Quote from: Big Hext Finnigan
This has been a fairly friendly exchange, considering the dividing nature of the topic and the participants.  Please continue to refer to issues and not personalities.. the veiled expressions are still clear, let's drop them as well.

Adios,


Most of us here have used general terms in this discussion and I have not seen it get out of hand yet. In fact I think we have handled it well all things considering.


I think that's what I was saying.. wasn't I?  :wink:
However it is at this point where threads seem to go bad.. somebody has to push the envelope and rip it.  And rather than just play the heavy, I'm making a statement about a few comments that, if taken differently, could have led us down the negative spiral.



BHF I was agreeing not disagreeing. :)
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #55 on: November 06, 2004, 01:40:06 AM »
Bill, Festus was the best side kick ever in westerns as far as I am concerned. I got a chance to meet Ken Curtis once and he was a real nice guy. Not snooty like a lot of celeb types. The guy had quite a set of pipes on him too he could really sing. But then you had to be good to sing with the Sons of the Pioneers. Jim
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Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #56 on: November 06, 2004, 01:42:51 AM »
Just had a thought. A liberal coming into this site with liberal views is like a gay fellow walking into a biker bar. Just is not going to cut it.  :)  :)  :)  :roll:
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Offline ironglow

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« Reply #57 on: November 06, 2004, 02:24:03 AM »
JH45gun;

  The only difference is that we would not beat the *&%^*$%# out of the Liberal....just win over by persuasion and logic....but of course as is often the case....using logic on a Liberal is like using turpentine on a cat!
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #58 on: November 06, 2004, 02:39:10 AM »
Quote from: ironglow
JH45gun;

  The only difference is that we would not beat the *&%^*$%# out of the Liberal....just win over by persuasion and logic....but of course as is often the case....using logic on a Liberal is like using turpentine on a cat!



I do not think they understand the concept of logic. It sure does not show in their veiws.  :grin: You might have something here maybe a few of them need to be turpentined.  :)  :)  :)
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline badbo

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First post, and a liberal too!
« Reply #59 on: November 06, 2004, 05:18:47 AM »
Quote from: jh45gun
Quote from: ironglow
JH45gun;

  The only difference is that we would not beat the *&%^*$%# out of the Liberal....just win over by persuasion and logic....but of course as is often the case....using logic on a Liberal is like using turpentine on a cat!


I do not think they understand the concept of logic. It sure does not show in their veiws.  :grin: You might have something here maybe a few of them need to be turpentined.  :)  :)  :)


I should have known better than to even make a passing mention of the subject of education earlier, which was only in response to Ironglow's suggestion that logic is incompaticle with liberal opinions.  To save the people the trouble of reading what I actually wrote before jumping into the echo chamber, I merely stated that many of the computer engineers I know have liberal political attitudes.  Are they right?  I think so, you don't, and that's why I'm trying to get us to talk to each other instead of past each other.  Are they educated?  I misspoke, because some of them are self-educated.  As you know, the internet is the most democratic of all places (except in China) and anyone with an internet connection and an analytical mind can check a programming book out of the library and start contributing to it, or make use of a tool developed by engineers/nerds/enthusiasts/whatever to create a site like this one.  Are  they logical?  Irrefutably.

Education does not make people right, but it does provide good arguments.     If Jefferson had not studied Locke, who studied Hobbes, who studied Plato, our Declaration of Independence would read very differently.  And that was a heck of an argument.   One of my best friends, who is a Republican, sat next to me in most of my classes in college.  We still disagree on a lot of stuff, but instead of disputing each other's conscience or mental capacity we can challenge each other to back up positions with facts and argument.  Others will find inspiration for arguments in other places, such as life experience and the Bible, and I have no problem respecting them or considering as long as they are backed up with reason, not prejudice.

Sawgunner,
While I disagree with your characterization of liberal attitudes, and by extension, me, I appreciate your service, both in Afghanistan and Iraq, if I understand you correctly.  I may dissent with a lot of our foreign policy, but you and your fellow servicemen have my prayers, respect and thanks for your devotion to our Country.

A final note,  I am neither Michael Moore, John Kerry nor Whoopi Goldberg.     I don't agree with everything they say or do, so condemning them won't make a lick of difference with changing my mind.
Love your enemies, for they tell you your faults
- Benjamin Franklin