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Author Topic: Barrel obsrtuction?  (Read 731 times)

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Offline TCShooter

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Barrel obsrtuction?
« on: November 04, 2004, 01:04:10 PM »
I am helping a friend with his new Encore muzzle loader and had him mark the ram rod so he could see if the bullet was being seated all the way.  Anyway, after the first shot the breach area has "crud" and he can't seat the bullet as far as he can the first shot.  We are only talking a 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch but I was always taught that it could be like a barrel obstruction if it was not seated all the way down and it could be dangerous.  What is acceptable as far as not being seated all the way and still being safe to shoot?  He is using a 240gr. shock wave over 2,  777 pellets.  

Also, is this "crud" the crud ring that I have heard mentioned here?  


Thanks
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Offline bjgolfnut

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Crud Ring.
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2004, 01:22:17 PM »
Hey,
      You will probably get some answers with more info than mine but, I would not shoot any MZ where the bullet is not seated on the power :eek: .   You can not have a GAP between the two.  Maybe you should tell him to run a spit patch between shots.  I do this at the range between shots using both Pyrodex and 777 when shooting Sabots out of my Huntsman.

    YES, that is the dreaded Crud Ring, that's why I recommend the Spit Patch.  By doing this you eliminate most of the build up.
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Offline Oldsnow

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Barrel obsrtuction?
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2004, 04:15:13 PM »
T/C shooter if the bullet is not on the powder, you will get excessive pressure and could have the rifle blow up in your face. All shooters using black powder and black powder substitute should swab the barrel after each shot. I use alcohol to swab at the range.
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Offline TCShooter

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Barrel obsrtuction?
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2004, 04:40:05 PM »
Thanks for the responses guys.  I didn't really feel comfortable with that.  I'll pass the info on about swabbing the barrel between shots.
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Offline Keith Lewis

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Barrel Obstruction
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2004, 04:59:25 PM »
Yes you have the dreaded "777 crud ring". T/C rifles seem to be worse than any other but not the only ones that experience it. The swab between shots is a first attempt cure. I could not deal with the severity of the fouling in my Omega so I ordered the .25ACP breechplug conversion and that has almost eliminated the fouling. I still get a little but it comes right out with a single spit patch and I can load a second Powerbelt without the spit patch if I really need to for hunting. Clean Shot (American Pioneer Powder FFFG) or Black Mag3 powder are a couple of other ways to minimize the fouling. Black Mag3 has almost no fouling and it is light grey and supposed to be non-corrosive.
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Offline Oldsnow

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Barrel obsrtuction?
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2004, 04:24:15 PM »
Be for I spent $70. on a .25 ACP I would spend $4. on a box of standard CCI primers. CCI primers all but eliminate the 777 crud ring in my Omega and Encore, both of these rifles shoot 1.5" groups at 100yds.
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Offline Redhawk1

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Barrel obsrtuction?
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2004, 06:08:55 PM »
Quote from: Oldsnow
Be for I spent $70. on a .25 ACP I would spend $4. on a box of standard CCI primers. CCI primers all but eliminate the 777 crud ring in my Omega and Encore, both of these rifles shoot 1.5" groups at 100yds.


I tried them in my Encore and it did not help. I will stick with the 25ACP breech plug.  :D
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Offline Omega

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Barrel obsrtuction?
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2004, 03:41:52 AM »
I'll bet you are shooting loose powder. Switch to pellets to get rid of the problem. Unlike everyone else I don't believe there is a gap between the bullet and powder in this situation. The build up in the barrel takes up room and the powder charge there fore fills more of the barrel. I have this happen all the time when I shoot loose powder and it only occurs on the first shot, every shot after that seats back to the second shot height. Mind you I only see a 1/4" change in seating depths.
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Offline TCShooter

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Barrel obsrtuction?
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2004, 07:03:57 AM »
Quote from: Omega
I'll bet you are shooting loose powder. Switch to pellets to get rid of the problem.


No as I mentioned he is using a 240gr. shock wave over 2, 777 pellets.  I asked him what primers he is using and they are the standard CCI's so that shoots that theory down also...I don't know if he is going to want to shell out the money for the 25acp kit so for now the spit patch and trying other powder forms will be next.  Thanks guys for all the suggestions.
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Offline daddywpb

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Barrel obsrtuction?
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2004, 12:01:49 AM »
I started using some stuff called Simple Green that my wife bought to clean the bathroom. I put some in a small spray bottle, and squirt a little on the first patch when I swab between shots. I've found that this stuff really cuts throught the 'crud ring' fouling quickly and easily. One dry patch after that and you're ready to load again.
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Offline Birddog 1

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Barrel obsrtuction?
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2004, 05:44:17 PM »
I was shooting my Omega this weekend 2 50gr pellets of RP and 250gr cheap shot with cci primers swabed with  #9 Hopps lube and cleaner ran the patch down and guess what.............the dame rod got stuck in the barrel had to pull the breach plug to remove it  :oops: happened twice learned that I needed to go in short strokes and instead of one long one :lol: I had one heck of the so called ring around the[coller] barrel :wink:


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Offline Omega

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Barrel obsrtuction?
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2004, 11:02:31 AM »
One thing I forgot to ask was what breech plug the rifle has. T/C makes 3 styles and #3 is specifically for the reduction of the crud ring with T7.
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Offline TCShooter

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Barrel obsrtuction?
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2004, 03:38:36 PM »
Quote from: Omega

T/C makes 3 styles and #3 is specifically for the reduction of the crud ring with T7.


This one does not have a number on the breech plug so no way of knowing which one it is unless the #3 would be the one sold with the more recent guns.  This gun is the new Camo frame, stock and barrel version so it is pretty new.  

May sound like a strange idea but I'm going to shoot a few of these 777's through mine which uses the #11 cap and see what happens.  If the theory of the 209 being too hot and causing the crud ring is true then the #11 cap may prove to be better as far as the "ring" is concerned.

I'll post the results sometime soon.   :D
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Offline Omega

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Barrel obsrtuction?
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2004, 03:59:33 PM »
The plug with the very shallow concave is the #2. The #3 has a very deep well in it that a pellet won't slide into. It should be the #3 as it is the most recent and it isn't likely to run into old stock the way those guns sell!
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Offline TCShooter

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Barrel obsrtuction?
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2004, 04:28:07 PM »
Well I didn't end up trying the pellets in mine with the #11 caps but did try the loose 777 and had no problems.  

Funny this is he didn't have any trouble with the crud ring shooting the loose 777 either.  He fired 7 or 8 shots and they all seated with no problem.  When the Encore finally was cleaned the crud ring was there but not as defined as with the pellets.

Thanks to all the suggestions!    :D
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Gen 27:3  And now, I pray thee, take thy weapons, thy quiver and thy bow, and go out to the field and hunt me venison.
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