Effective ranges of 58 and 62 caliber roundballs?

[hans g./UpS]

OK,assuming rested/aimed shots with the following:
58caliber roundball in 30" rifled barrel
62caliber roundball in 42" rifled barrel
: effective ranges on: deer,black bear,elk,moose,wild hogs?
Thoughts,opinions,-actual- experiences?

[filmokentucky]

I have a .62 caliber flintlock longrifle with a 42" Colerain barrel. It is deadly accurate at 125 yards, but I would not take a shot at that range due to concerns about how much energy would be left. I would not hesitate to use it on a white tail at a hundred yards. It probably would take a black bear or elk or moose at the same range, but I think I'd want to get closer if I could. For the big bears, I believe I would load a little heavier and try it at 80 or so yards. If I recall  correctly, hogs are generally a close range proposition, and I think either a .62 or .58 would do just fine. I'm particularly fond of this rifle as it only weighs a tick over seven pounds and carries nicely, so it gets shot a lot. I know where it shoots at all reasonable ranges and , more than any other rifle I own, can use Kentucky windage to compenate for crosswinds. For anything but small game or birds, this is the bore diameter I would choose.

[Ramrod]

When you use balls this big, energy figures are meaningless. The balls will pass through most game by sheer mass, or momentum. Max range is more an accuracy and trajectory consideration than a power problem.
And by the way, filmokentucky, if that .62 was a smoothbore, you could use it on small game and birds too. :lol:

[filmokentucky]

I agree that the ball has enough mass to get the job done. And I've fired the rifle enough to know where the ball will be out to 125 yards. I just limit
myself based on ethical concerns and my tired old eyes.
  For the birds and bunnies, I have a 20 bore, 1730 period long fowler that
is the counterpart of the rifle. I've even worked up a turkey load for it that
would be effective at 25 to 30 yards. Both are prized possessions and valued tools.

[jeager106]

I'm fairly new to roundball shooting.
That is to say i'm new to SER"IO"US roundball shooting. I've been into black powder for around 30 years, but only took it seriously the past 4 or so years.
Used to be owning a black powder rifle was just for special seasons.
Now black powder is my go for everything by choice.
Addictive ain't it?
I have 3 hand built roundballers, all flinters, .40, .45, and .58 and consider them all 100 yard game rifles at best.
Why?
Sights mainly, and then trajectory.
They are not, nor ever will be, meant for ranges much past 125 yards.
No doubt the shear mass of the big boys, i.e. .58 and .62 and larger will pass through large game, but it's still a matter of hitting the vital zones no matter the cailber.
I like bigger roundballs because......?, well they're BIG! and in the world of black powder bigger is better for large game, whitetail and larger.
Remember the .58 and .62 etc. enters bigger than high power .30's are exiting. They make really big holes by virtue of bore size.
If I were hunting from a tree stand at bow ranges I wouldn't hesitate to use my .45 Bedford Co. Flinter, or perhaps my .40 Bucks, but the .58 American Jeager fits me well, goes ka-boom right quick and almost never goes " Klick awe crap!"
By the way, NullB pan powder is the best pan powder I've ever used.
Ditto Swiss 1.5fg in the .58 and my .62 smoothie.

[hans g./UpS]

FYI:they're both TVM flinters:58cal. Jaeger,62cal. Early Virginia
In the Jaeger I use 100gr FFg or 80gr FFFg with .570 roundball.
I haven't shot the Early Virginia yet.I wonder how much velocity I gain with 12" more barrel?[I realize the ball is heavier,probably 320gr vs 280 for the 58cal].The Jaeger clearly feels handier,especially in the woods.
I will eventually try a smoothbore 62 or 72cal for woods use.

[dlemaster]

Hi All
I made a copy of the "Andreas Albrecht" rifle shown in Geo. Shumway's "Colonial Rifles of America" Vol. 1 a few years ago. I made it using a 42" Getz barrel in .60 caliber. This rifle off the work bench shot 2" groups at 100 yards but about 10" high, this was without any sight adjustment. My Father-in-law took the rifle before I could adjust the sights to shoot right on at 100 yards. He lives in Arizona and drew an cow Elk permit for black powder the next year. I accompanied him on his hunt. On the 3rd day of the season we saw a group of cows at 200 yards. I saw him get ready to make a shot and I told him I thought it was too far for a shot with a round ball. He said the rifle shot right on at 200 yards, and then fired the shot. I saw a cow of about 500lbs that was standing slightly quartering away from us, facing a little to the left, hunch up a bit and slightly jump. I knew he had hit her but I didn't know where. As the group of cows moved off she started off with them but she was definitely hit hard. We trailed her about 70 yards from where she had been shot and found her dead. On field dressing her we found the ball had entered between the last 2 ribs and angled forward cutting some main arteries going to the heart, and lodged inside the wall of the chest cavity just in front on the right front leg. He used a .595 ball and 125 grains of 2F Goex. Pretty good for a round ball, but a shot I would never have taken.
I have always loved those early rifles and big bores, and now the only rifles I make are Pre-revoluntionary War rifles .50 cal. or larger.

Regards, Dave

[filmokentucky]

I'm a great believer in making a big hole. Probably a result of reading Robert Ruark's "Use Enough Gun" as a lad. No white tail ever got away because a hunter was over gunned. But the opposite is all too often true. And the big bore will stretch the range if you are willing to try it. I guess the .54 might be the most versatile. Mine will shoot flat as can be to 125 yards and is accurate, too. But I still like my .62 better. And I'm thinking about building a .67 or even larger. Here in Massachusetts we can use a .44 for deer, but I wouldn't even consider it. Just not enough punch for my tastes--no matter how many deer are taken with these small bores every year.

[jeager106]

filmokentucky:
In the world of black powder BIGGER is always BETTER. :lol:
One day I'd love to have a rifled .72, but I'm sure my .58 Jeager will handle Ohio whitetail, no matter how BIG they get.
I have a drop in .62 smoothie by Green Mountain on a T/C frame.
Can't get it to shoot roudball for crap. :evil:
It patterns shot well enough though.
Wonder could someone rifle the thing, and to what cailber without making the barrel walls to thin?
Wonder if it could be rifled fairly shallow, say .006 deep with a .610 roundball and .010 patch?

[Naphtali]

The phrase "effective range" refers to not merely the rifle-with-ammo. It must account for how efficiently rifle, ammunition, and sights coalesce.
 
The bullets will penetrate far enough to kill beyond 200 yards -- so what?  
 
Sources for inconsistency (inaccuracy) include:
 
1. RBs lose velocity rapidly. .62-caliber will retain about 75 percent of its muzzle velocity at 100 yards. The .58-caliber slightly less.  
 
2. If you have loaded heavily, you may be getting 1800 ft/sec at the muzzle. At standard temperature and pressure speed of sound is 1126 ft/sec. Speed of sound in dry air at zero degrees Celsius (32° F.) is 1086 ft/sec. Your RB will make the transition between supersonic and subsonic at about 115 yards. And the break point is a source for severe inaccuracy and unpredicability.
 
3. Using "V" sights of any kind handicaps the SHOOTER'S ability to shoot accurately, especially when confronting all the other sources for inconsistency.
*********
So your effective range, not the range where the bullet is capable of killing, is really about 110 yards. This sounds not good. But I've great news.
 
In the mid-1960s Shooting Times Magazine conducted annual surveys for several years in Colorado. Only modern gun hunters who filled their tags were respondents. The average range for the first shot on mule deer was less than 90 yards. Average first shot on elk was just under 111 yards.  
 
So despite apparent limitation of muzzle loading rifles, your shooting and their point blank range should overlap nicely.

[Ramrod]

Naphtali, One question for you...
What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

[Naphtali]

Ramrod:

You know that sarcasm would have been banned had the election turned out differently.

The answer is --

     The answer is --

          Tune in same time, same station . . . . Later.

[roundball]

OK,assuming rested/aimed shots with the following:
58caliber roundball in 30" rifled barrel
62caliber roundball in 42" rifled barrel
: effective ranges on: deer,black bear,elk,moose,wild hogs?
Thoughts,opinions,-actual- experiences?

Bought a new .58cal x 33" GM Flint drop-in barrel for a TC Hawken this spring, and use the following  deer load:
100grns Goex FFg
Oxyoke Wonderwad
TC .018" prelubed pillow ticking
Hornady .570/279grn ball
Extremely accurate, zeroed at 50yds, 3" drop at 100.

This season I've been lucky enough to take a couple but they were close:
7 pointer at 35yds, complete passthrough, dropped in his tracks
8 pointer at 50yds, complete passthrough, sprinted 25yds, dropped

No question the big ball is very effective...and it's actually much more rifle than needed for Eastern Whitetails at normal woods distances.  I suspect it would easily be a solid performer at 125-150yds no problem at all...just need a good rest and know the trajectory, but my longest typical shot is 75yds where I hunt...I've cleaned and cased it now...will use a .45 flinter for the rest of the season and see if I can fill some more tags.

IMHO, the .58 is unbelieveably effective, and would really show it's potential where 125-150yd shots are the norm, and/or larger game such as moose, bear, boar, etc, are being hunted.

[KING]

:-D and again...I had a good grin for the day.thank you gentleman....stay safe.King