.357mag vs .41mag vs .44 mag vs .454 casull??????

[IATRKYHNTR]

I want to add a new hunting hand gun to my gun cabinet, it's use will be mainly deer, and some wild hogs. The deer here in SE Iowa are from 160-250+ lbs, and I would be hunting mostly out of tree stands. SOOO, should I stick with the .357 Mag, that I am used to, and have everything to reload, or is it time to step up to a bigger gun? I know the .44 Mag will do just about anything I want it to, how bout the .41 Mag? What ranges would be suitable for each caliber? Or should I step up to a bigger caliber?? Any info would be nice.

BTW, the new handgun will be a 6"-8" barrel, not sure on what make yet.

Thanks
TRKYHNTR
Nathan

[bobg]

I'm not a big fan of the 44mag. i think the 357mag. may be a little under powered so i went with the 41mag. Can't tell you to much about it cause this is the first year i will be using it. Sure wasn't much help was i ?
bobg :-)

[Graybeard]

With hogs in the picture I'd recommend moving up to the .44 mag. I once used a .41 mag to finish off a wounded hog and let me tell you I sure didn't like the effect it had on the bruiser. Now I was using 210 JHPs as I wasn't expecting to be using them on hogs but I sure didn't like the performance of them. Had I had heavier cast bullets I'm sure the performance would have been vastly superior. But I'm not a .41 fan after that experience and will use a .44 not in in the future.

[De41mag]

IATRKYHNTR;

I'm a big fan of the 41mag. as you can see by my screen name.
It's a good all around caliber for hogs or deer. Bullet selection is a little limited. But since you reload, you have a lot more choices.
The 41 seems to be gaining a little steam as far as popularity.
But there is no denying it, the 44 is still a darn good choice. With that 250gr. SWC-Keith in 44, I believe it is the best all around handgun bullet, jacketed or cast. The accuracy is uncanny.
I was at the range today with a friend, he was shooting a 10-1/2" Ruger Super Redhawk, iron sights. I was shooting my 657 7-1/2" S&W, iron sights. We were both shooting at the 100yd. distance. Accuracy was good for both, but 100 seems to be the max for any handgun w/o a scope. Maybe 25yds. longer with a scope.
I'd say the 41, but I'm partial to it.  :-)
Good Luck on your decision. Either way.  :wink:

Dennis  

[TScottO]

Step Up.

If you are going to buy a new gun the 41 and 44 is a much better tool for the job. If you will reload for this gun the 45 Colt is a very good option as well.

The 44 magnum will be offered in more variety of firearms. Next, the 45 Colt will have several options to choose from as well. The 41 Magnum will be available in fewer options then the other two.

The 357 may get you by but I feel the 357 lacks a lot of needed diameter when you are considering 200+# animals. I would go with the 44 Magnum or possibly the 45 Colt if you are going to reload.

Be Safe,
Scott

[crawfish]

The smart thing would be to stay with what you know, but hell my momma never call me her smartest and what is the fun in that anyway? Anyone who has ever seen any of my posts on handgun caliber preferences knows that I’ll strongly suggest the .41RemMag as the BEST deer sized killer out there. Load it with a good 250g hard cast WFN from any of the cast bullet companies and you can take on anything that walks, swims, or crawls in North America and if you have the gonads anywhere else too. All bravado aside, the .41RemMag loaded with a 170-210g jacketed bullet will kill deer cleanly and will also take care of pigs in the 200 pound or less size. If you have a chance to run into s really big piggy the 210g will kill it but the pigs will sometimes want to discuss that point with you. Since I had that discussion more than a few times and one time very up close I now only load the 250g bullet for all my hunting with the .41RemMag. No more discussion from the piggies. I have been using this caliber almost exclusively since 1989 and it leaves nothing to be desired. It will kill with the same authority as the larger calibers with much less recoil and pain to hand and wrist.
For me handgun hunting has always been an up close endeavor. When I started I set a range limit of no more than 30 yards. I figured if the stick and string guys could do it so could I. I have managed to stay within that limit all these years. I do pass on many shots because of that but what the heck our season is long and the limit is 6 so there or lots of shots. In the hands of a GOOD shooter the .41 and larger will kill out to as far as you can place all your shots on a
9-inch target. The .41 will take down the steel ram cleanly at 200m no sweat.

[IATRKYHNTR]

Thanks for the input guys!!!!

I know all the benefits of the .44 over the other two I listed, and for good reason, it's a great round. BUT since hogs will only be a now and then pursuit, I'm not really worried about the extra power it packs. And I also understand that the .357, while a great caliber in it's own rights, might be a lil lacking on the larger deer in my neck of the woods. So in comes the .41, I'll admit I know lil to nothing about this round, but have always wondered about it's performance on deer sized game, and if it would be suitable for smaller sized hogs.

I'm not totally sold on any one caliber yet, each seam to have there own good points. The .45 LC was mentioned above, and I have not limited myself to the calibers I’ve listed, they just seamed to be a small step up form my .357 I have now. I've looked at about every handgun caliber I can find info on, and I'll admit, the .454 Casull for some reason just jumps out at me, but from what I have read that could be a BIG jump form my lil ole .357?

I guess my requirements are... performance on game, manageability of recoil, reliability, availability of ammo (or components), and the odd-ball cool factor of a caliber none of my shooting buddies have :mrgreen:

IATRKYHNTR
Nathan :cb1:  :biggun:

Decisions, decisions.... I love shopping for a new gun!!!!

[Jim n Iowa]

Go with the 44. I shoot the 44 mag here in central Iowa using 240 jfp factory bullets. Ave shot 60 yds. This year I am going to try hard cast 240 bullets. The 44 gives you a wide range of options in ammo, if you reload even more. Then there is always the 44 sp which is popular for handloaders in deer hunting, and a good substitute for the 357. The 6 to 7.5 inch barrel is all you will need. I just traded in a 8 3/8 barrel for a 7.5 Redhawk scope model.
Jim

[bigjeepman]

My vote goes to the .45 lc but then we all have our favorites. I have never shot a .41 or a .44 mag but would love to someday. I am sure they are great calibers. I took a 245 lb boar last winter with the .45 lc and it was a clean one shot kill and my son did the same on a 225 lb Russian boar.

After getting on Ruger's website and seeing a few new handguns coming out in 2005, I'll be getting at least one of the new thinner/lighter Vaqueros in .45 lc and hopefully the 50th Anniversary New Model Blackhawk in .357 mag. If you haven't seen these, go to:

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/News-11-11-2004C.html


http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/News-11-11-2004F.html

Seriously, I don't think you can go too wrong with any of those choices.

[Savorino]

I have a 44RM and have taken a couple deer with it. Thinking back, I might get the 41 next time. The difference in diameter is not that great, kind'a felt cheated when I realized the 44 was .429 instead of .44. The controllability and size of the 41 might be some advantage.
However, I only hunt deer with it. I would defer to Greybeard on his experience with hogs if that is a main quarry of yours.
Sav

[DWARREN123]

Think about the 480 Ruger, big enough for about anything you will want to do and if you reload you can load it to your spec's.

[Mikey]

Graybeard:  Interesting you should have that experience with the 41.  Elmer Keith said the same darn thing (almost) about the 38-40.  Apparently there was one incident when, in his younger days, Elmer had to use his 38-40 Colt to drop a bull.  Seems like the first load out was a factory load that splashed off the skull, but his next load, which is not often mentioned, was one of his hardcast slugs loaded fast that dropped the bull in his tracks with a head shot.  

That's one of the major reasons why I prefer hardcast, square shouldered slugs - they do the job.  Mikey.

[IATRKYHNTR]

I've done a lil more research... The biggest draw back I see of the .41 Rem Mag, is the limited bullet selection for hand loading. BUT, by the numbers I found on factory loads, I was VERY impressed with it.

I also expanded my caliber choices, really the only round I’m NOT looking at is the .500 S&W Mag, just way to much. But I will admit, the thought of jumping up to a .454 Casull, or .480 Ruger, is just a lil scary. I’ve only shot my .357 Mag, .22’s and my 9MM, I have no experience with any of the other handgun rounds. So is it safe to jump into a big bore, or should I work my way up? I realize that being a hand loader, I can under load a big bore and work my way up in it, but what would a “soft” load .454 Casull be compared to a hot load .357 Mag?

As I stated before, my requirements are... performance on game, manageability of recoil, reliability, availability of ammo (or components), and the odd-ball cool factor of a caliber none of my shooting buddies have. I don’t want to be under gunned, but I also don’t want to blow my arm off practicing. I want something I can have fun hand loading, but also be able to pick up factory loads if need be. It’s main use will be on deer, 160-250+ lbs, 20-30yds for the most part, from a tree stand. The yardage would depended on the round I select really. The thought of knowing that if I do my part, the gun will do the rest, would be very reassuring. I will not claim to be a crack handgun shot, but off hand with my .357 I could bust 7 of 10 clay birds at 20 yards. And any shots I would ever take, I will have practiced at before the hunt.

Thanks again for all the input guys, you all are a wealth of information!

IATRKYHNTR
Nathan

[Glanceblamm]

My vote goes to the .45 lc but then we all have our favorites.

If you will reload for this gun the 45 Colt is a very good option as well.

Ditto & Ditto.

[Graybeard]

Graybeard: Interesting you should have that experience with the 41. Elmer Keith said the same darn thing (almost) about the 38-40. Apparently there was one incident when, in his younger days, Elmer had to use his 38-40 Colt to drop a bull. Seems like the first load out was a factory load that splashed off the skull, but his next load, which is not often mentioned, was one of his hardcast slugs loaded fast that dropped the bull in his tracks with a head shot.

I'm one of those who actually still prefer the JHPs for deer and that's really what I had the S&W Mtn. Gun in .41 magnum sighted in with and so it was on my hip that morning. I had no thoughts of having to use it on a large wounded hog but that's what ended up happening. It sure too way too many of them to get the job done. I did finally manage to get one into the brain and end it but I was sure unhappy with that gun and even more unhappy when we saw how little damage the other slugs had done. Shortly after that experience I sold off both of my .41s.

Yes if I'd had hard casts in it that morning things would have worked out much differently I'm sure. But I just lost all confidence in the round and saw no need for it with .44 mags, .454 Casull and .480 Ruger lying around the house. Still don't.

[Del]

After reading your posts in what you want from this new handgun, here's my vote:

.454 Casull

You can reload it down to 800+ fps (even in .454 brass, according to FA)
Components & dies are easy to find
Factory ammo is at any outdoor store or "large Mart" stores
You can gradually work your way up to full house loads
Yet mid range loads, 260grn @ 1200 fps, will cleanly take deer & hogs
Work up to full house loads & you can take elephant or brown bear
It has the "cool" factor, a caliber most or all your buddies won't have
Want to raise some eye brows?, let your buddies try full power 300 grn ammo! :eek:

If I had to buy one today, it'd be the Ruger Super Redhawk w/the 7 1/2" barrel.  Shoot it w/ open sights if you want or put a red dot / scope on it with the Ruger rings already supplied.  Heck you can even pick up a box of .45 Colt ammo and shoot through it, though I never do that since I can down load the .454 brass to .45 colt factory load levels.

I'd rather pick a larger caliber and load it down to start, then pick a round that is "just enough" and have to load it to max all the time to get the job done.  That's my theory anyways.........

Good luck with your choice

[poncaguy]

I would use my Thompson Contender 17" barrel 45-70 and Red Dot scope.........

[slowfog]

I'm with Del, a .454 is hard to beat with the ablity to shoot .4Colt loads and then jumping up to .454 loads. Recoil is stought but not unmanagable. If I had it to do all over I would have had a break installed on mine, but I have managed OK without it. I may still have one put on, so scopes with magnification would be easier to shoot. Currently I'm using an Ultradot which works Ok for most shots, since straight walled ammo is required in Iowa and thats about all the range you cn get with that caliber.

[Camp Cook]

One of my bush carry gun is a Ruger Super Redhawk in 454 Casull. I have a lot of exposure to black bears where I work here in B.C. and have carried 10mm semi auto's, Ruger Bisley Vaquero 45 Colt's but now mostly carry the 454 Casull. I can shoot any level of 45 Colt in it as well as when I need the extra power I'm not finding myself wishing that I had a more powerful gun with me. I just change the load in the gu.
Cam

[New Hampshire]

Now by going on what Jerry Lester has seen in his storied career hunting deer with the .357 Magnum he says the key is low hits for best tracking.  He says the .357 Mag is not a tree stand gun (or at least thatwhat Im gathering here.)  So this alon may rule that caliber out for you.  And the .41 mag is a great deer round as well.  But to be honest here the .44Mag and .454/.45 Colt are hard to beat for versatility.  I guess handloading will open more options with the .41, but that, I guess, is a tough decision for you to make.  Either way I think you would be well served with the latter 3 choices.
Brian M.

[IATRKYHNTR]

New Hamp,
I've asked Jerry about it, and in my case even he said that the .357 might be a iffy choice. I would have to be careful of shot placement, and yardage. So really that one has all but been eliminated from my short list.

I really like the ballistics of the .41, but the ammo and component selections is VERY limited for this round. But it hasn’t been taken of my short list, tied for the tops spot on my list.

The .44, well it’s the .44 mag, not much else to say about it, great performance, multitudes of ammo and components available, can use the .44 special for lower recoil, BUT it’s a .44, just about everyone has one. Still on the list, but at the bottom.

The .45 colt, doesn’t do much for me ballistic, but a good round in it’s own right. Off the list.

The .454 Casull, I’ve always loved the numbers on this round for hunting. No question it would handle anything I want to shot at, has about as much ammo and components available as the .357 & .44 Not to many people around my neck of the woods have one, BUT I have no idea what the recoil is like, but I doubt it is to much for me to handle. Tied for the top spot with the .41.

The .480 Ruger, great numbers, awesome for hunting, not as much ammo around here for it though, but can find the components. Very cool round to say you have. But even more recoil. Still on the list.

I’ve looked at other rounds, the .475 Linebaugh, .460 Rowland, and others, but they are very off the wall, and would have to be in a high priced gun if I wanted one. All off the list.

So here’s my list,
1. .41 Mag & .454 Casull .41 has less ammo, .454 has more recoil… tied
2. .480 Ruger. More recoil, less ammo
3. .357 Mag, my old stand by
4. .44 Mag, just to many out there

So there ya have it, it’s ether suffer with limited ammo with the .41, or suffer the higher recoil of the .454

Decisions, decisions!!!!!!

Thanks again to everyone that has offered there opinion, all of it has helped me get to this list. Any thing else y’all have to add to this feel free!

IATRKYHNTR
Nathan

[TScottO]

If you reload you will not have to worry about recoil. You will be in control.

[crawfish]

I’m going to try to push you a bit. You said “have everything to reload, is it time to step up to a bigger gun” so you already reload and you will have to get dies for any new caliber you choose.
So here goes, every bullet maker makes jacketed bullets in .41 caliber. Typically they are 170, 200, 210 and 220. The relatively new 210g XTP from Hornady is a first class deer killer, the Nosler 210g JHP is another deadly bullet on deer sized animals. Speer and Sierra list two .41 caliber bullets with my favorite being the excellent Sierra 210g JHC Sports Master. This is the bullet I started with way back in 1989. It DOES shoot through deer from 30 yards with a front shoulder poi. I’m sure it will shoot through your tree stand deer if you limit yourself to archery ranges. Speer lists a 200g and 220g bullet. I have at one time or another loaded all these and still have a supply of them in my gunroom. Both son#2 and granddaughter use the Sierra load for all their handgun hunting. That load is Sierra/210g/19.5/2400 which out of our 657s’ (we have three of them) measures 1593-1625 on my Chrony Bata Master at 15 feet. Now that load is by far not max. I’ve loaded as high as 22/2400 but the load I settled on shoots best in these guns, already shoots through deer so why abuse our hands with heaver loads. I have already stated that this load isn’t my choice for BIG (350+) pigs. It doesn’t kill them real dead, real fast. This is where the 250G hard cast bullets show up. CPBT and BearTooth both have excellent .41 caliber bullets up to 300g. There are another 3-4 bullet makers that also have .41 caliber hard cast offerings. I started loading 250g and 265g hard cast bullets in 1998. Since that time my family has killed about 20 piggies loaded with the 250g bullets 6 in that BIG class. No problem, no sweat, killed them real dead, real quick. I haven’t had a shot at a big pig yet so I have no first hand use on BIG pigs. I have killed 5 large animals with that bullet though a 600+, 1400+X2, 1800+, and a 2200+ pounds. These were at 63 yards for one (600+ cow bison) and the other were within my 30 or less yard limit. All the shots except one were front shoulder pass through, one shot, fall in place kills, again but one, which was a one shot to the head kill. I can’t ask for any better performance from a caliber or bullet so I see no reason to look bigger. What more can it do but shoot through an animal and kill it in place. I currently have handguns in .41, .44, .444, 454, and .45-70 calibers. They are all deadly on deer sized animals BUT the .41RemMag will do it just as well with less, blast, recoil, and punishment to my hand and wrist.

[IATRKYHNTR]

Crawfish,
You do love your .41’s don’t  ya;) You make very good points, and I thank you very much for pointing all that out to me. I love the numbers on the .41, you and some other have backed them up to. But there are a few nay sayers.  But for the most part I think they are worried about there performance on hogs, which I have said will be a now and then game for this gun. So, you’ve pointed out that there is more available for the .41 if you look, you are admit about there performance, and I think even less people have them then the .454 Casull. Hmmm more to think about.

Thanks,
Nathan

[Raging480]

A .41 mag should do a good job on hogs, the point was made that the right bullet be used.  A heavy hard cast bullet.  I load the 250 grain Cast WFNGC over 20 grains of Li'l Gun with a CCI mag primer.  I am not going to hunt Grizzly bear, but I would hunt deer, moose, elk, caribou, black bear, and pigs with this load.  
I sold my .480 to get another .41!

[S.S.]

IATRKYHNTR !

Has your .357 ever let you down?
If Yes, by all means go to something bigger!
If No. Why change a good thing?
I carry a .357 with an 8 in. barrel and am quite
comfortable with it. I have had this gun for probably
25 years and know very well what it will and will not do.
If the shot is not one I feel comfortable with, I will
not squeeze the trigger. I must admit that I do not carry
my .357 for hogs The comfort thing kicks in when I
am hunting something with 4 to 6 inch teeth!
That falls to my .44 Mag. In it I use 310 grain medium hard
cast SWC's at about 1000 fps. I have never recovered one of
those bullets from anything I have ever shot due to complete
pass through.

[Camp Cook]

If you are a reloader the 45 Colt will do everything that a 44 mag can do and everything that it can't with less psi. Don't rule it out......
Also check out the ballistics of the 41 mag and I think that you will be surprised by how little difference there actually is between it and the 44 mag.  
I shoot 10mm's (which is a 40 cal compared to 41 cal) and would not hesitate on shooting a black bear in a hunting situation with it and the 41 mag does a lot more than my 10mm's.
I shoot a lot of top loads in my Ruger SRH 454 Casull and my wrist gets a bit sore after to many rounds.
Cam

[New Hampshire]

Camp Cook is right.  The .45 Colt has been kept anemic in its factory loadings simply because of fear someone might use hotloads in a Colt Peacmaker or copy.  Buffalo bore makes a 260gr loading that whizzes at @1450 fps, and a 300 gr loading @ around 1300 fps (I think.)  This puts it up into the low end .454 range.  The Ruger guns as well as the T/Cs easily handle these rounds.  So while Im not trying to sway you to the .45 Colt per-se, I just dont think you should rule it out quite yet.
Brian M.

[Camp Cook]

I load my 5 1/2" barreled Ruger Bisley Vaquero's in 45 Colt with 300gr XTP's and 330gr hard cast's @ 1300 fps but have settled on about 1280fps in all my top loads now. The same rounds out of my 7.5" barreled Ruger SRH 454 Casull go @ about 1400 fps average velocity. My 454 Casull loads are 300gr XTP's @ 1700fps, 360gr hard cast  @ 1500fps and 395gr hard cast's @ 1400 fps.
Cam

[IATRKYHNTR]

S. Sumner,
The only deer that my .357 has taken is a lil, and I mean LITTLE doe. Did a right fine job on her. BUT, the bucks here in SE Iowa, and some of the does get BIG. If all I was after was lil does I wouldn’t even think about a different gun. But this will be a any deer gun, and maybe a piggy gun to, so the .357 just isn't up to the job. I’ll still have it, and will use it this coming winter for a doe only season, gotta take at least one tasty lil doe a year.

As for the .45 colt, the numbers just aren’t there for me. The way I look at ballistics is like this. there are soft, mid range, and hot loads. Most factory loads will fall in the mid range category, to fit in all weapons. So the .45 colt in a hot load is comparable to a soft .454 Casull load…. Why cut myself short? If I get a .454, I can ether under load it to .45colt numbers, OR I could shot .45 colts in it. AND I could still work my way up to hot .454 loads, and kill most anything ever want to. I’m not knocking the .45 colt any, I think it would be a fine deer gun, but would limit myself to deer sized game for the most part.

The .41 Mag has great numbers, that are very close, and some times better then the .44. From the reports I have read (here and else where) the .41 can be loaded to suit most any game I would ever want to go after. BUT there is a cap to the .41’s performance, like any round. The fact that the .41 doesn’t carry as well down range, as say the .44 or .454 it will keep me in close range. (that’s just how I read the numbers) I REALLY like the .41 though.

The .44 is THE .44, it’s a good round. But when it comes down to it, I just don’t want a .44. Sorry.

The .454 is the big dog, of my list. I wouldn’t have any worries of taking any reasonable shot with this round. Most any shots in my given hunting situations would be reasonable. If I decide to go looking for a hog, I’ve got enough gun to do so, with out worry of having just the right bullet. I can load it down, to start with, and work may way up. (from what I’m told) And it’s just a cool round. BUT, as has been my concern from the start, this will be a BIG step. I’ll admit I am very fond of this round, but you guys and that .41 sure make it a hard choice.

So I am still tied between the .41 Rem Mag, and the .454 Casull. Now I’m going to start looking at different DA revolvers available in each. I’ll start looking at all the costs involved, and I will still go over the ballistics over and over, as well all of your advise you have given me.

I will say this though, I’m gonna own BOTH someday. You can never have to many guns. Just which one to get first???

I really want to thank each any every one of you guys, you gave me great, no BS information. You weren’t afraid to offer up rounds I hadn’t thought about. Most of all you kept it civil, this easily could have turned into a my gun is better then yours fight. Thanks!

And feel free to offer any more advice!!!

IATRKYHNTR
Nathan