Author Topic: Looking for load for 44mag. 275gr. xtp for marlin 1984 (Read 716 times)

gmj · « **on:** November 14, 2004, 01:25:12 AM »

I picked up some 275gr.xtp 44mag. slugs at the gunshow and I can't find any load data with W296. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I can find 265gr or 300gr data but Hornady does not show a 275gr 44 bullet. Thanks in advance

Nobade · « **Reply #1 on:** November 14, 2004, 10:09:42 AM »

See how much 296 fits in the case with the bullet seated to the crimp groove. That's your max load. Drop it 5%, work up from there for best accuracy. You're there!

daddywpb · « **Reply #2 on:** November 14, 2004, 11:41:17 AM »

gmj,

I have a Marlin 1894P 44 Mag Guide Gun. I'm using 270 grain Speer Gold Dots over 19.8 grains of 296 for about 1500 fps. It is both hard hitting and very accurate from my rifle. Personally, I would not use the "see how much fit's in the case" method. You might end up wearing your Marlin. Try a current reloading manual, and a good scale - things will probably work out better. Great choice of rifles by the way. My Marlin is by far my favorite 'walkin' in the woods' rifle.

ricciardelli · « **Reply #3 on:** November 14, 2004, 07:18:38 PM »

Although I was not loading for a Marlin, I was working-up loads using that bullet for my original Ruger semi-auto carbine and Ruger Super Blackhawk.

I was not satisfied with the performance and quit...

But to answer your question...for the 275's:
W-296 From 18.5 grains to 20.5 grains
CCI-350 Primer

Graybeard · « **Reply #4 on:** November 14, 2004, 07:29:30 PM »

Quote

See how much 296 fits in the case with the bullet seated to the crimp groove. That's your max load. Drop it 5%, work up from there for best accuracy. You're there!

WHOA!

Dunno if I'd go along with that one. Now mind you I dunno how many grains that would come out to but I'd say that's a recipe for disaster telling someone a case full of powder is a safe max don't sound too safe to me.

I use 22.5grains with case 275-280 grain bullets and personally consider it a MAX load. With a jacketed bullet I'd want to know how deeply it was seated. I've used 22.5 grains with the Hornady 300 XTP when seated in the lower (closest to base) cannelure to increase case capacity. When seated to the upper cannelure I will not personally exceed 21.0 grains.

These are NOT load recommendations but merely telling you what I have been doing for years.

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #5 on:** November 15, 2004, 05:58:06 AM »

Graybeard, in this particular instance, using as much 296 as it takes to fill 95% of the usable case capacity is sound advice. 296 is dangerous on much less than full case charges. That's why WW publishes a single charge for 296 loads. It's really no different from suggesting a Lee dipper number.

There are a number of instances where "all you can get in the case" is sound advice. It's appropriate when you are using a powder that is slightly too slow for the case you are using it in. Back when I started, it was common practice to use a full case of WWII surplus 4831 under 150 grain bullets in the .30-06. You simply could not get enough of that powder in the case without a drop tube to do any damage. NOTE: DON"T TRY IT NOW! Several of the powders now designated 4831 have been changed over the years.

Many loads for the .357 Max and the 7.62x39 are determined by how much you can get in the case. That don't mean to go blindly stuffing cases full of powder, just that there are instances where the available volume is more of a limit than the pressures generated.

Nobade · « **Reply #6 on:** November 15, 2004, 04:56:33 PM »

Yep. You can't overload a 44 mag with 296 or H110, if the overall length is kept to spec and by seating to the crimp groove with a XTP you're doing just that. Now if you go trying that stunt with Unique or something, sure you're going to rapidly dissasemble your rifle and hurt yourself. But as leftoverdj said, in some cases the correct load is all you can fit in there.

daddywpb · « **Reply #7 on:** November 15, 2004, 11:20:31 PM »

In almost 30 years of reloading, I've never heard that about 296 or H110. You learn something new every day. All of my manuals have specific data for charge weights with both of those powders. I guess the ballistic guys at Speer never heard of it either. I wouldn't think that pouring powder in 'till it's full would produce consistent, accurate ammunition, but never having tried it, I can't say for sure. I'll stick with a powder measure.

Rmouleart · « **Reply #8 on:** November 16, 2004, 08:37:45 AM »

For best results measuring powder,I use a single stage press, I personally dump 98% of the listed load and then hand trickle the rest, seat and crimp in two stages, always use a lee factory crimp for uniformity, good to go. Aim small hit small. RAMbo.

Nobade · « **Reply #9 on:** November 16, 2004, 03:52:26 PM »

OK, I just gotta chime in once again and then I'll let it drop. First, I never said don't weight your charges. Please look at what I originally said again. Now, take your Speer or whichever manual you like and see what the max charge of 296 or H110 is for a certain bullet in a 44 mag (or 357 or 41 for that matter). Weigh out that much powder, drop it in a case, and see how far below the top of the case it ends up. Now measure the bullet they said to use, from the base to the crimp groove. Those two measurements are really close together, aren't they? Just for grins, try the same thing with 4227. Works there too, huh? That's the MAX load for those cases using those powders and bullets. Now back off and work up carefully to see where your best accuracy is.

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #10 on:** November 16, 2004, 04:28:57 PM »

Quote from: daddywpb

I guess the ballistic guys at Speer never heard of it either. I wouldn't think that pouring powder in 'till it's full would produce consistent, accurate ammunition, but never having tried it, I can't say for sure. I'll stick with a powder measure.

Daddy, how do you think your powder measure works? It pours powder into an adustable chamber until it's full. Lee dippers are the same but fixed. Matter of fact, the Lee dippers grew out of the use of cartridge cases to measure powder. If you have a copy of Lee #2 around, you can read about how Richard Lee and Dean Grinnell did it back before the dippers were made.

I'm not ragging on you. I can understand how the notion seems bizarre to someone just running into it, but it's all many of us had to go by 40-45 years ago. Powder measures and scales were no common things. You'd go over to the house of someone who had a scale and file on a sawed off cartridge case until the charge you wanted would just fill the case. Then you'd have a measure that you could take home, fit a handle to, and load happily and safely away.

daddywpb · « **Reply #11 on:** November 16, 2004, 10:52:22 PM »

Nobade and leftoverdj,

I'm not ragging on anybody either. The first reloading I did was with a Lee Loader, a dipper and a rubber mallet. I used them for years and still have them, one in .38 Special and one in .30/30 Win. I don't know how much experiance gmj has, but I didn't want him to just start scooping cases full of powder and seating bullets without regard to charge weights. I didn't mean to offend anyone. I got a Dillon 550 in 1987, and haven't used the Lee Loaders too much since, except for showing my wife and daughter how I used to do it in the "good ol' days". By the way, I saw an old Lee Loader on a table at a gun show. The guy wanted $65 for it, and it was missing the scoop. Mine still has the $8.99 price tag on it. Is that the going rate for them?

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #12 on:** November 17, 2004, 08:26:47 AM »

Daddy, you saw an optimist at the gun show. Going rate for old Lee Loaders seems to be $10-$20. Some of the very scarce ones might bring a bit more. A complete set for 28 gauge might bring a very decent price, for example.