Anyone else have this problem??

[gary/mt]

Hi All!  I bought a new Bushnell Elite 3200 scope for my 7X30 Waters bbl and took the Burris 1.5-4x scope off that was on it.  I took the 2X Redfield scope off my .35 Rem bbl and put the Burris on.  When I was sighting in the .35 Rem bbl with the Burris scope on it, on the 4th shot, it came flying off the bbl like a missle and the eyepiece end of the scope caught me just below my hairline.  At first I didn't know what had happened.  All I know is that I had a real warm feeling of blood running down my face onto my shooting bench.  I looked at the Contender, and it was all in tact, but the scope was missing and had fallen onto my arms after hitting me in the head.  After getting stitched up, I examinied the gun and found out what had happened.

I always use weaver mounts and mount them like Bob Milek used to do by using epoxy to hold the mount to the barrel on hard recoiling guns.  The mounting screws pulled out of the barrel, stripping the threads, and of course the epoxy broke loose.  The Burris 1.4-4X scope is quite a bit heavier than the 2X Redfield I had on it previously, and just was too much weight for the recoil.

I called the E. Arthur Brown Co. for help.  Eb told me to send him the barrel and he would put on his Interlock Magnum scope mounts that use 6 screws instead of the 4 that T/C uses.  He will cap the 4 original holes and put the mount ahead of the chamber so that he can use longer screws to hold the mount on.  That will fix my problem.  He will also do all of the work just for the cost of their 3 ring mount, $60.00.  I also asked if they could expedite my scope work and get it back to me by UPS 2nd day air, the same way that I sent it to them, and they said that they would do that, as I have to leave by the 15th of Feb. for a hunt in Texas for Blackbuck, a Hog, and an exotic sheep.  I highly recommend the E. Arthur Brown Co., for realizing the need to expedite my work due to my upcoming hunt, and allowing me time to resight the .35 Rem before my hunt.

I plan to use the 7x30 Waters and .35 Rem for all of my Texas animals.
And, I have learned a good lesson on getting the proper mount installed on hard recoiling T/C bbls such as the .35 Rem, the hard way.

  Anyone else have this happen to them?  By the way, I just got my stitches out yesterday.
Gary

[Robert]

Did you check each screw one at a time for proper depth to hold your base?  Once again, there are Weaver bases, and Weaver 'type of' bases, and there are Tasco 'sort of similiar to Weaver bases' that if anybody is foolish enough to use they deserve to get hit hard in the head.  I dont care about 'epoxy', but if you dont have  4 tight screws in a REAL Weaver base, and DO NOT HAVE at least ONE forward ring over the thick part of the base.....the scope is going to go.  Tasco makes a Weaver style base that puts the front rings out on a little peice of metal on the front, sticking out into space with NO SUPPORT WHATSOEVER and I dont think it is suitable for even a .22 rimfire.

None of this necessarilly applies to you, and I mean no offence, but if it is one of the cheap bases, and/or you didnt check each screw individually for depth....there aint enough epoxy in the world that would help you.

[KN]

My guess is that your screws came loose first and then the heavier scope caused the epoxy to let go, pulled what was left of the screws out and striped the threads. I wouldn't put epoxy on amount like that, If you hadn't you probably would have known the screws were coming loose before it thru the scope off. I can't say thats exactly what happened, I'm just guessing.  KN

[Nerves Of Steel]

All is conjecture at this point, however, here are a few points to ponder.
(1) If when you were putting the epoxy on, if you got some in the screw holes, then the screws would not penetrate all the way to the bottom of the hole and the epoxy would have made the mount seem secure. In fact then the screws would not be getting maximum thread engagement, and once the epoxy cracked, the screws just stripped out.
(2) The epoxy was put on too thick and the screws did not get full engagement because the epoxy acted like a shim and prevented the screws from being bottomed out in the hole.
Either of these two can happen with a good base, the right screws and inappropriate application of the epoxy.
Just something to think about, and to watch for if appying epoxy under a base.
Bill Rearick

[gary/mt]

All of you guys have brought up a lot of good points. And I appreciate them.  However, when I put on the bases, they were weaver brand bases, not cheap tasco type bases.  The screws measured at right near bottoming out in the screw holes in the barrel.  I know because I measured them.  When I put on the epoxy, I used a minimal amount, and did not put any near the screw holes, and there was no epoxy in the screw holes after the mount came off.  I used blue lock tight on the screws, tightened them evenly, and even used a small brass hammer to "set " each screw so that the threads on the screws mated with the threads in the barrel.  I did it exactly as Bob Milek did it in his article in Guns and Ammo magazine on mounting scopes on T/C barrels.  Being that I used lock tight on the cleaned threads, I seriously doubt that the screws came loose, causing the mount to come off.  The scope was mounted as far back as I could get it, to get the most support from the 4 factory screws as I could get.  Everything worked fine with the lighter 2X scope, but the much heavier and longer Burris 1.5-4X scope apparently was too much weight for the type of recoil the .35 Rem has.

The barrell was a used one, like new, when I bought it at a gun show quite a few years ago.  The only thing I can think of that may have contributed to what happend was that the previous owner may have used too much force on the scope mounting screws and partially stripped the screws before I purchased the barrel.  But as I remember, the screw holes looked ok when I mounted the scope, but who knows, it was a long time ago.

Anyway, my question was, "has this happened to anyone else just using the 4 factory holes on the .35 Rem. super 14 factory barrel"?  I know now that at some point, I should have sent the bbl in to SKS or E. Arthur Brown for the 6 hole mount and beefier scope rings.  But, when things are working I tend to not worry about it, especially when Bob Milek said it works.  If it wasn't for him, I would never have bought a Contender in the first place.  Sure do miss that guy.

[KN]

You may be right about the screws being partially stripped to begin with. That could cause what happened easy enough. I usually add another screw to the end of the std bases, never did like hanging half the rail out there with no support. I am assuming you used the small hammer like an impact driver. I wouldn't do that with that small a screw. If your using good quality lock tite the screws really don't need to be that tight. Over tightening the screws will weaken them, or the threaded holes their in, and the recoil may have just finished them off. Just somthing to think about,  KN

[Robert]

Havent ever had a problem.  I have the Bushnell Elite on my .356 Contender and it is sweet.  The screws must have been stripped.
  There aint no way on God's green earth that a 35 Rem would pull that scope off there.  Sorry you are having a hard time.

[Gary T]

Gary/mt, I've never had an experience quite like yours, thank goodness, but have also had problems w/ a 35 Rem Contender barrel.  :oops: It was the first Contendr barrel I bought, coming from my brother-in-law who was getting out of the handgun hunting/shooting hobby. I'm not sure exactly how he mounted the base, but I'm sure he did it right as he took great care w/ his guns. He used the barrel a great deal on both hunts and various shoots. I hunted w/ the barrel a few years before I got a 6.5 JDJ. Haven't hunted w/ it ever since....  The barrel has a Burris mount w/ the "turn-in" type rings (2). At any rate, when I took the Leupold 4X scope off it, I noticed one of the 4 base mounting screws had sheared off.  :eek:  Scares me to think what might have happened to me had I kept shooting the barrel. After all, the 35 Rem's recoil is something to consider... In a perfect world, things like that should NOT happen, but obviously they do. I don't know the specifics, but obviously there are various conditions that can come together to result in such problems. That may be partly why JD Jones developed the T'SOB, using 6 screws that are bigger/stronger than the Weaver screws. Systems such as his are probably over-kill, but very reassuring, nevertheless, especially w/ the thought of your face being SOOOOO close to the scope :shock:  W/ my recently purchased 50 cal Contender muzzleloader barrel, I had DVH d/t the barrel/Weaver mount for 6 screws. I thought I'd read everything about mounting scope bases, but found Mike Bellm's suggestions helpful when mounting the Weaver base. If you've not already seen it, you may want to take a look at his thoughts.  :wink: Glad you came out of the incident relatively ok.... :roll: Gary T.

[gary/mt]

Gary T....Sure glad you discovered that sheared screw on your .35 Rem barrel, or you could have had the same problem as me, or worse!.....and thanks for the info about Mike Bellm's article on mounting Weaver bases on T/C Barrels.  You're right, it is very informative, and a must read for anyone mounting a handgun scope.  Thanks for your input!

Attn KN:  I didn't use the brass hammer like an impact driver.  Just a gentle tap on the screwdriver while using turning pressure to seat the screw threads to the barrel threads.  You would need to read Bob Milek's T/C barrel scope mounting article in Guns and Ammo magazine to understand his logic in doing this.  But thanks anyway for your input.

Gary

[JMCrane]

Where is Bellm's article on putting weaver bases on TC's. I looked and couldn't find. Please advise, thanks[/quote]

[TopGun]

Gary, I had the same problem with my 10" 444 Marlin. It is not 'braked' and it all has to do with weight of scope and inertia. The force is tremendous, and much worse with some. The big Marlin was almost the only one that ever came off, and it did it twice. The other was my 358JDJ with no brake. It has one now, and I have it scoped with the weaver base, only 4 screws and my TC recoil proof. It has not failed me since, and it too gets fed heavy loads. Those failed mounts were the Redfield and Leupold mounts.  These mounts are the sole reason for SSK TSOB and other premium 6-screw mounts exist. When a heavy scope and mount have to react to a inertial thump like that, something has to give. the 4 little screw go first. They're not absolutely necessary with 'braked' guns, and some factory loads, but the true hand-cannons require premium bases if they don't have brakes. My TSOB has NEVER failed on the 10" 444, and it still isn't braked. BTW--the Tasco scope I had on it never failed either, and it hit the groud twice also. go figure? So much for cheap scopes.

[Gary T]

Address for the Bellm article on Contender scope mounting w/ Weaver mounts....
http://www.bellmtcs.com/How-To/weaver.htm
Gary T. :grin:

[gary/mt]

TopGun,
I think you are absolutely right about the weight of the scope and inertia on hard recoiling handguns being the reason for the TSOB type of mounts and muzzle brakes.  You never mentioned that you were injured by the scope the 2 or 3 times that you lost one under heavy recoil with the factory 4 screw mount, so I assume you were not or hope you were not.

Thanks for your input, and I totally agree with your assessment of my problem.  AND, it is possible that your Tasco scope might just be as strong as some of the "premium" scopes around.  The only brand I ever had fail was a Leupold.  Yup, go figure.

Gary

[TopGun]

Nope, never got hurt. One time it just sort of dropped off and to the ground, and the other time it flew past my ear.  The thing I can't figure with scopes is that the cheapie rifle scopes seem to fog and change zero--this hasn't been the case with my pistol scopes. I have Leupold, Redfield, Burris, B/L, Bushnell, Tasco, TC, and Simmons (a few of each). Non has ever fogged during a PA deer season, and my Leupold, Burris, and TC has never fogged on my Colorado snowy, cold Elk hunts. I can't figure them out. Now, when I see a cheapie pistol scope come in, regardless of brand, to my buddies gun shop, I scarf it up and hold it for a future barrel.