Author Topic: OK, just how much gun DOES hog hunting require?  (Read 6321 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Dusty Miller

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2271
  • Gender: Male
OK, just how much gun DOES hog hunting require?
« on: November 15, 2004, 12:35:43 PM »
In a recent discussion in this forum I disagreed with a guy who says the 223 Winchester is enough gun for hog hunting.  My position was that only in the hands of a flat out dead-eye shot aiming for the brain or neck bone was such a gun suitable.  How about the rest of you, what do you figure the minimum hog hunt'n gun is and how do you justify that conclusion?
When seconds mean life or death, the police are only minutes away!

Offline howie1968

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 582
DustyMiller
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2004, 01:59:23 PM »
hello,  i think  i may have been  one  of  the fellas  who disagreed  but  ill state facts  from my personal hunting experience.
             granted we know hogs are tough to kill mean and have a will to survive.  if  i had money or  weapons  of choice  my first  would  be  a 45-70 loaded with300 gr jacket hollow points  this  load  worked  for me well  all 1 shot stops dead in their tracks.  some will disagree  with  the loading of  the hollow points   but  my 400 lb boar fell  with one shot right in his tracks  i also like the 308 with 150 gr power points  the 30-06 with 180 gr Remington core lokts.  and  my all time light carry gun  that  has killed  at least 30 hogs  is  a marlin 30AW wal-mart special 30-30 shooting 170 gr corelokts.  i recently started carring this rifle after  the last few  yrs  of using practically anything  i had. including the 223.
              the reason i used  the 223 was because it was the ONLY gun i had  and it took 6 pigs cleany with neck/head shots. if  alls  i had was a 223  it  would not keep me out of  the woods  but  it  would limit  the shot  i  took  the range  at  which  i shot  an animal.
          so to sum it up  here are my beliefs
1 top choice 45-70
2.270,308,30-06 class gun  using remington corelokts  premium bullets are ouit of my price range  and core-lokts have always worked for me
223,243 22 mag only if its the only gun I had  and limit my self to close range and nexk or head shots
  my reasons  are  for   the  first choice  blows  holes cleany through any hog 2nd choice controllable recoil they hit pretty hard  and  can shoot at extended ranges the 3rd choice  not  my first choice   but  none of them would keep me out of the woods  if that is all  i have  had.  i have recently turned to bowhunting  and other than a couple shots   they generally run quite a ways when hit.  hope  this  has helped
Hi  enjoy  hunting  guns    teaching  my  2  daughters  about  hunting  and  boxing

Offline Wynn

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 283
OK, just how much gun DOES hog hunting requ
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2004, 02:14:38 PM »
I have probably killed in the neighborhood of 200+ hogs from 35 to 450 lbs.  I have killed a bunch with a .22 just behind the ear. My hog GUN is a sporterized 6.5x55 Swede with 131 gr. Sellier & Bellot ammo. I think a lot of novice hunters problem stopping hogs with one shot is a lack of knowledge of a hogs anatomy. A typical behind the shoulder shot that often stops a deer in its tracks will usually miss the heart/lung on a hog.
Their kill zone is lower and further forward than a deer, elk, antelope type animal. I usually go for the base of the neck and cannot recall losing one with that shot. A hogs shoulder plate, while tough, is not enpenatrable and a fast, light bullet will usually go through the shield and shoulder and bust up the heart/lung area and frequently pass all the way through. Just aim at the lower third area instead of the upper third and forget the behind the shoulder shot. I have just never found them that hard to kill. :o
American by birth; Southern by the Grace of God

Offline howie1968

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 582
Wynn
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2004, 02:59:00 PM »
Well put,  i couldnt  word it the way you did about shot placement, behind  the shoulder shots generally result  in long tracking   and  the 6.5X55  is  a  great round  i loved it when i had one
Hi  enjoy  hunting  guns    teaching  my  2  daughters  about  hunting  and  boxing

Offline TomD

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 164
OK, just how much gun DOES hog hunting requ
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2004, 03:29:33 AM »
I use a sporterized 6.5 x 55 to hunt hogs. It's a great round. I load my own rounds using 140g & 160gr bullets w/ RE22.

We're heading to San Antonio this Saturday for a 9 day Thanksgiving family visit. Planning lots of Hog hunting.

My wife surprised me last night :-D  No, not like that :eek:  An out of state TX hunting license is $300. I usually buy the $45 dollar, 5 consecutive day license which does not include Deer & Turkey and I just hunt hogs. Outta nowhere she says "hey, we're in good shape this month, why don't you buy a regular TX hunting license and hunt deer on the ranch this year along with the hogs" :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  

Rifle season opens up here in CT tomorrow. No hogs, but some big Deer. I'm really looking forward to it. Two states in two weeks :-D

Offline Mark whiz

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 111
OK, just how much gun DOES hog hunting requ
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2004, 05:49:48 PM »
.223 will work fine for hogs - again   make good shots though.

As a bare minimum for smallish hogs, from actual hunting distances (beyond 10ft) a .357Mag is the SMALLEST round I would use - and that can be borderline.  so a .223 will  "Git er DONE"!  :)
"Every moving thing that liveth, I give unto you as meat" (Gen 9:3)
Aim small.........miss small.
Trust God..........but keep your powder dry!

Offline kjeff50cal

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 294
OK, just how much gun DOES hog hunting requ
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2004, 06:33:36 PM »
I beleave the size of the gun bears a direct relationship to the size of the biggest hog you are going to shoot to the distance of the nearest tallest climbable tree  :)  :)  :) .
Ignorance leads us into the darkness, Knowlege leads us out.

Offline huntsman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 501
OK, just how much gun DOES hog hunting requ
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2004, 03:33:41 AM »
With hogs I believe you need to separate the headshot cartridges from the heart/lung cartridges.

The headshot cartridges need not be large caliber, but must be accurate at the range you plan to shoot. Most of the .224 caliber centerfires that push 2800+ fps velocity will get the job done, especially in varmint rifles with less than MOA accuracy.

The heart/lung cartridges need good bullet construction and adequate velocity for the bullet weight. The heavier the bullet, the less critical velocity will be. The smallest caliber I would fully trust is the .257s, with the 25-06 being preferred with 117 grain partition or similar bullet construction. The .260 or 6.5x55 in the .264s are plenty adequate with 130 or better grain bonded or retained-core construction bullets. Most, if not all, of the 7mm and larger diameter bullets of 140 grains or more are adequate, again with good bullet integrity and muzzle velocities in the 2400+ fps range. The heavier bullets (200+ grains) in larger bores (@ .35 and above) can go considerably slower (down to the 1700 fps range) and still do a fantastic job.
There is no more humbling experience for man than to be fully immersed in nature's artistry.

Offline robk

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 78
OK, just how much gun DOES hog hunting requ
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2004, 10:24:05 AM »
a well placed shot will take a boar down no problem. that said it's the shooter that makes it happen and if he or she is unable to keep their cool their chances of a quick kill is nil. if you can take and kill a boar hog with a 60 lb bows and shooting a broadhead again it's where you hit them.
i have hunted with a 243 and the other guy was shooting a 223 and both f us were very comfortable with our weapon of choice and both of us made qick kills on hogs weighing over 250 lbs each.
i would say you need a round that is made to knock an animal down and you want a hard hitting bullet that retains it weight well and penetrates hard and fast. you can get that in any bullet and make it work for you.
the whole thing comes down to confidence in what your shooting and your confidence in making the right shot
rob k
Pearson Advisory Staff
Golden Key Futura Field Test Staff
Cobra Archery Staff
Team Turbo Nock Staff

Offline bfpgw

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 45
  • Gender: Male
OK, just how much gun DOES hog hunting requ
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2004, 02:51:40 AM »
Haven't shot a hog....yet.  Looking to head to southern MO this winter to hunt on Ft Leonard Wood.  My niece's husband is a lifer in the Army to be stationed there soon.

My buddies who hunt hogs tell me the same as I've read here.  I suppose all calibers are capable.  My grandparents and father used .22 rifles to kill them, but it was at slaughtering house ranges with a single shot.  I carry a revolver or lever action .357 with me in the woods even when not hunting.  Coyotes and hogs can be found around here.  I personally feel most comfortable with .357 for two reasons.  1- .357 is powerful enough with good placement and hard cast 180gr Federals are up to the job.  2- both the revolver and lever action hold 6 and 9 rounds respectively.  Number one is for the shot and two through nine are to avoid climbing a tree afterwards.  I'm a good shot, but not perfect.  Humane kills are the goal, but saving my hide is paramount.

Particularly if you are hunting from a tree stand (recommended with a single shot or muzzleloader) it would permit anyone who can place a shot in the sweet spot to hunt with a .223 or .243.  I just got a .243 single shot / .50 muzzleloader.  The wife and I will try to hunt hogs with my .357 Marlin and she with the .243 from a tree stand.  We hope to score, but the bed of my truck will need a powerwash.  All the hogs I've seen were some smelly boogers.

My father would probably hunt them with a .22, but he can shoot one wing off a horsefly at 75 yards with iron sights and a 60 year old rifle. :wink:
Always need another gun.

Offline Mohawk

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1958
OK, just how much gun DOES hog hunting requ
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2004, 11:52:15 AM »
Back in September I personally watched a 100lb sow take a cocktail of .223 bullets behind the shoulder consisting of ball, SP, and HP. My partner was able to get 7 rds in her and we never found her. I thought he was using a 7.62. It was a AK-74 re-woked to .223. A head shot would work but that is the only one I would try.

Offline JJHACK

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 847
    • http://www.huntingadventures.net
OK, just how much gun DOES hog hunting requ
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2004, 02:56:18 PM »
Even though there has been a fairly opinioniated series of posts here, the general feeling is still very civil. That's a nice change for the internet these days!

I would like to chime in here with a few thoughts. First,........ the majority of folks seem to believe in what they have seen work, or fail first hand. This unfortunately often comes with very few experiences. Many hunters see an animal shot and crumpled one time and for ever more feel that load, range, bullet, cartridge, etc etc, it the answer to all conditions for that species. Yet another may see a similiar load fail miserabley and assume the opposite.

In Austrailia a great many hogs are shot with very small calibers. I have seen a couple guys kill 50 hogs in one day. These guys will tell you and argue the point forever that thier little .22 centerfires are the best possible choice. Yet the biggest hogs they shot were well below 150 pounds.

There are others who hunt much bigger trophy hogs who know from thier experience that the thick gristle plate will stop a small soft point 22 centerfire from even going through to the organs. What I think is going on here is some folks claiming that one cartridge is good for all hogs at all ranges regardless if they are boars, sows, feral, cross, or pure european hogs.  That feeling is just plain wrong and in poor judgement.  Hogs come in many sizes and with very different physical makeup. A sow of 300 pounds will be much easier to penetrate broadside with any gun or bow then a boar 1/2 her size will be. A castrated feral boar has far less of a gristle plate then a pure european wild boar.  A feral boar that is intact also has a much thinner gristle plate then a pure european boar.

Its really important to realize they the fella in one part of the country shooting hogs may not have the same genetic makeup of a fella in another part of the country. I doubt that any other big game animal has as varied anatomy as a hog does. All these things tend to influence our opinions on cartridge choice.  I have killed quite a number of hogs from across the USA, Africa, and Canada. The differences I have seen are very large in what most folks refer to as the same thing "wild boar".

To settle a series of posts like this the question really needs to be addressed with a bit more focus on the worst case scenerio. That way anything less leaves us with a firearm capable of anything we need. To this I think we need to assume that a maximum 300 yard shot, easily typical in many areas of the west especially California. Then we also need to be able to penetrate at near point blank for the hounds bayed in the thick bush or swamps of the SE USA.  Of course we also need to have a bullet that will expand at 300 yards and not explode on the gristle plate at 20 feet. Now that is a very tall order! Finally we need to be able to penetrate through and through both gristle plates on a broadside shot to offer a minimum level of blood for tracking.

So now what do we have to choose from to meet these needs? Consider that less then .308 diameter leaves very rare and limited blood trails. By the time you cover that 300 yards across a canyon in California you will need plenty of evidence to track that hog. You will also need one heck of a bullet to exit the off side gristle plate at that distance.  With this in mind it's a very safe bet that nothing under .308 or 30/06 will fit for all around "minimum boar" candidtates. The rifles over .40 caliber also begin to fade as they are not really 300 yards rifles. The exception being the various 416's which would be a very good choice if you can handle the weight and the recoil of these beasts.

So we need a rifle shooting a 150 grain .308 bullet or bigger and somewhere under .375 diameter. These will provide minimum blood trails and flat shooting needed for 300 yard shots out west. They also use premium bullets to solve the 20 foot shots which may come up.  As you can see a post like this that asks a question without a hunting style or geographic region is difficult to answer for certain.  I should think a 30/06 with a good mid weight premium bullet will work for you in nearly any situation. I have personally killed large hogs with mine in South Africa, Zimbabwe, Canada, tennessee, oregon, Texas, California, Oklahoma,  Maybe more? don't recall them all at this instant. It may not be the best in any single situation but its good in them all.

Here is a photo of a pure eurasian wild hogs gristle plate. Imagine a soft point bullet from a small caliber rifle trying to exit this from 200 plus yards. Imagine what a small diameter hole is made in the entry side and how the blood will leak out? Not too good eh! Imagine what the explosive effect of that same soft point is going to be at point blank.  Hogs are the only American pachyderm. ( pachyderm is latin for thick skinned) This is certainly an animal that justifies premium bullets when after the more pure forms of Eurasian wild boar in the larger sizes.  Ferals and females do not generally have a thick gristle plate anything as thick so they can be taken with far less gun.

Anyhow, ... I'm glad for the civility in the thread and thought I would offer a bit of my thoughts which may not have been well understood by folks in different geographic areas or with the same genetic makeup of hogs.

www.huntingadventures.net
jjhack@huntingadventures.net

Offline FOsteology

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 62
OK, just how much gun DOES hog hunting requ
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2004, 08:47:38 AM »
I remember this discussion! :D  

When it comes to "How much gun is enough" for hogs (or any other game for that matter), it all boils down to shot placement. For boiler room shots, bullet construction is also important.

For strictly head and neck shots, the .223 will get it done, but there is little room for error. I know guys who hunt hogs with a 22-250. They're mainly predator hunters and practice with their rifles extensively, so they're good shots. I also know a man who uses a .22 Mag on Hogs. :eek:  Winchester Super X 40 grain JHP just behind the ear within 50 yards....

My son hunts with a .223, but he's 9 years old. He has used a 22-250, but the recoil and bark is enough to affect his accuracy. With his .223, he's very good and I have no qualms with him shooting hogs. Of course, we still limit it to head/neck shots within 50 yards and use either 55 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claws or Winchester 64 grain Power Points.

I like to use my Marlin 336W in 30-30. Great Texas brush gun and really lays down the smack inside 100 yards with 170 grain bullets. :twisted:
Protect your hunting freedoms....Join the NRA

Offline JJHACK

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 847
    • http://www.huntingadventures.net
OK, just how much gun DOES hog hunting requ
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2004, 12:49:21 PM »
FOsteology, For the most part I agree it's about shot placement. Matter afact we all agree that shotplacement is about 99% of the debate. It's the one percent that we tend to debate so much.

In the case of feral hogs you're on track. In the case of sows or castrated males, your good to go again. However in the case of a 300 pound wild boar( a real one not a cross breed) male those .22 daimeter and even those .243 diameter bullets placed perfectly into the chest don't quite get the job done. Look close at the photo above of that hide. That skin is tougher then the tire tred of a pickup truck, and thicker! Even if a bullet from a .22 gets through it and takes out a lung. you will need dogs to find him because there will no way be an exit hole, nor a drop of blood on the ground to follow up with.

If we are talking about culling or only head shots then the .22 centerfire might be fine. However there are very few Cullers that make the right shot everytime. I have culled several hundred animals in my life and eventually had to build a specific rifle for that work. Head shooting is risky business much of the time. Especially for the infrequent or inexperienced shooter doing that work!
www.huntingadventures.net
jjhack@huntingadventures.net

Offline Haywire Haywood

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1230
  • Gender: Male
OK, just how much gun DOES hog hunting requ
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2004, 11:54:50 PM »
NEF's new offering in their Handi-Rifle single shot is the 500 S&W Mag.  A buddy of mine and I saw that and thought a hard cast 400gr WFN out of that 22" barrel would make it a fine 100yd hog gun.  Lots of blood out, lots of air in.

just a thought,
Ian
Kids that Hunt, Fish and Trap
Dont Steal, Deal, and Murder


usually...

Offline Lawdog

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4464
OK, just how much gun DOES hog hunting requ
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2004, 02:24:57 PM »
There are hogs and then there are HOGS.  If you are going after some little piggy then as JJ said about those .22 centerfires, "don't quite get the job done".  You go after a 250 - 300 lb. Russian and it's a different animal.  The Russian hogs can turn on a dime and give you nine cents change and come complete with tusks that can/will ruin your day.

Just how much rifle would you want if you were going after one like this.

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/album_pic.php?pic_id=568

We need to get JJ to tell about this one as he knows the story.  Lawdog
 :D
Gary aka Lawdog is now deceased. He passed away on Jan. 12, 2006. RIP Lawdog. We miss you.

Offline Broken-arrow

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 155
OK, just how much gun DOES hog hunting requ
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2004, 04:36:54 PM »
:shock:  I agree with Lawdog, how much gun depends on how much hog.
Please write me off of GB outdoors, I do not want to be a part of it any more.

Deactivated as requested.

Offline Dusty Miller

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2271
  • Gender: Male
OK, just how much gun DOES hog hunting requ
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2004, 11:46:46 AM »
LawDog, I think I'd pass on the shot with my 44 mag 629 if that big puppy came stroll'n thru the woods!
When seconds mean life or death, the police are only minutes away!