Author Topic: Mortar shootin, 1863 style  (Read 1322 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline guardsgunner

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 421
Mortar shootin, 1863 style
« on: November 16, 2004, 12:33:55 PM »
This is copied from the 1863 Hvy Art. manual. Thought you might find this of interest. It explains the use of the stakes, plumb's levels ect.
Many of the N-ssa crews follow some variation of this method.

Pointing Mortars

As mortars are usually masked from the object to be bombarded by an epaulment or parapet, different means from those which are used with guns and howitzers become necessary for giving them their direction.
  There are several means proposed, all of which, however, are reduced to determining practically two fixed points which shall be in line with the piece and the object, and
Sufficiently near to be readily distinguished by the eye. These points being covered by the plummet, determine a vertical plane, which, when including the line of metal, (?) becomes the plane of fire.
  Premising that the mortar is so laid that its axis will be nearly in the plane of fire, and that the line of metal is ascertained by the gunners level and marked with chalk, best manner of directing the mortar is by means of pointing-stakes.
  This method uses point-stakes to establish one of the fixed points upon the parapet, and another in the rear of the piece. Then by a cord, called the pointing-cord, stretched between these two points, with the plummet suspended from it, a vertical plane is determined with which the line of metal is made to coincide.

  To fix the points, a stake, a foot or more in length, is driven firmly into the crest of the epaulment as nearly as practicable in the vertical plane passing through the axis of the platform; sighting by this stake, another long one is planted three or four feet in front of it In line with the object. To this stake the cord is temporarily attached, and stretched by the first stake, just grazing it to a point one yard in the rear of the platform. At this point a third stake is driven. The pointing board (this is a piece of wood one foot long, two or three inches wide, and one inch thick, having a notch cut in the middle of one side to fit on the stake, which is graduated into equal divisions from its middle. It serves to wind the pointing cord on when not in use.) is laid on the ground at the foot of the stake. The cord is removed from the second stake, which now may be taken away, and permanently attached to the first.
  To direct the mortar, the cord is stretched to the top of the stake by the left hand, while the plummet is suspended against it by the right, or, the plummet maybe attached to the cord in the rear of the mortar.
  It is evident that when the cord, the plummet, and the line of metal are in one plane, the mortar is properly directed.
  In case the shell should, nevertheless, strike constantly to the right or left of the object, the pointing-cord is shifted to some notch on the pointing board to the right or left, until the shell falls at the desired point.

Offline Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12609
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: Mortar shootin, 1863 style
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2009, 08:20:49 PM »
We are going to need this so we can learn how to point mortars at the Montana Shoot.

Offline Cannoneer

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3950
Re: Mortar shootin, 1863 style
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2009, 09:40:53 PM »
Artilleryman,

 Do you follow these guidelines when laying your 8-inch mortar at N-SSA events?



Thanks, Norm.
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline Artilleryman

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1378
Re: Mortar shootin, 1863 style
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2009, 02:55:17 AM »
We have only taken the 8 inch mortar to the nationals once or twice as it is too much trouble with all the other activities that we are involved in.  I have used the method described with reasonable success.  When you don't have a berm in front you can get by with one stake in front and one in back of the mortar.  One of the things to remember in shooting Civil War period mortars is that they were never intended for pin point accuracy, close was good enough when using an exploding shell. 
Norm Gibson, 1st SC Vol., ACWSA

Offline Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12609
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: Mortar shootin, 1863 style
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2009, 04:19:44 AM »
Norm,

Do you think we can use this method to put a mortar ball in a bucket?

Offline Artilleryman

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1378
Re: Mortar shootin, 1863 style
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2009, 09:00:32 AM »
During the NSSA nationals I have seen quite a few of the stakes get hit right on top, and I have seen mortar shells knocking stakes down.  Depending on the range and the size of the bucket, and how many shots you take you could put mortar shells into a bucket.  As they say even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then.  At any rate it would be fun trying.
Norm Gibson, 1st SC Vol., ACWSA

Offline Cat Whisperer

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7493
  • Gender: Male
  • Pulaski Coehorn Works
Re: Mortar shootin, 1863 style
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2009, 11:49:14 AM »
SO - how big is the bucket?

Will it survive a direct hit?

Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
Cat Whisperer
Chief of Smoke, Pulaski Coehorn Works & Winery
U.S.Army Retired
N 37.05224  W 80.78133 (front door +/- 15 feet)

Offline Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12609
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: Mortar shootin, 1863 style
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2009, 11:51:02 AM »
I've seem them hit the stake at Ft. Shenadoah also.  I seen stakes, string and plumb bob used there also.  I've also see one guy stand behind and eyeball line things up and seems work just fine also.

Offline Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12609
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: Mortar shootin, 1863 style
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2009, 11:53:50 AM »
Don't know how big the bucket will be, it won't be big, the money is going to the range acquisition fund.

Offline Artilleryman

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1378
Re: Mortar shootin, 1863 style
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2009, 03:44:33 PM »
Since the idea of using the mortars was to drop shells into enemy fortifications, I thing that digging a hole in the ground and see if you could put a shell into it.  Make it harder by putting the dirt from the hole on the side closest to the firing line.  Stick a flag in the middle of the hole and give a bonus if it is knocked down.
Norm Gibson, 1st SC Vol., ACWSA

Offline Bornsouthern34

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 131
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mortar shootin, 1863 style
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2009, 03:58:16 PM »
When I was 12 or 13, my dad and I shot at the local BP club. Guys would bring their cannons during major shoots and do crazy stuff like that. The best show they put on was seeing who could hit the "steel" at 100 yards with the least amount of powder. As for the buckets, I would like to be around to see that.
"Common Sense IS NOT An Inherited Trait"

JT

Offline Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12609
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: Mortar shootin, 1863 style
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2009, 04:18:55 PM »
Since the idea of using the mortars was to drop shells into enemy fortifications, I thing that digging a hole in the ground and see if you could put a shell into it.  Make it harder by putting the dirt from the hole on the side closest to the firing line.  Stick a flag in the middle of the hole and give a bonus if it is knocked down.

Hey Norm, great idea...since we have bunch of these guy who seem to want ot shoot real golf balls maybe I could go out to the Country club and see if they might loan me a hole cutter and flag.  ;D

Offline Cat Whisperer

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7493
  • Gender: Male
  • Pulaski Coehorn Works
Re: Mortar shootin, 1863 style
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2009, 04:30:07 PM »
Since my golf-ball mortars are adjustable in 15 degree increments, I'll have to determine the settings for Mashie, Niblick, Mid-iron and Putter. 
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
Cat Whisperer
Chief of Smoke, Pulaski Coehorn Works & Winery
U.S.Army Retired
N 37.05224  W 80.78133 (front door +/- 15 feet)

Offline GGaskill

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5668
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mortar shootin, 1863 style
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2009, 05:47:39 PM »
One thing that works well for putting is to use old humidified black powder as I did at the recent Desert Marksmen Rendezvous.  It barely got the golf ball out of the mortar.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
--Winston Churchill

Offline seacoastartillery

  • GBO Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2853
  • Gender: Male
    • seacoastartillery.com
Re: Mortar shootin, 1863 style
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2009, 06:08:17 PM »
     Thank you Norm and Douglas; you guys are great!  Before this recent tricky rules change by the Montana Moderator, we had to hit the very center of a 5 gallon bucket.  We had to accurately place that big water cooler jug EXACTLY on the center of the bucket to be in it.  NOW, with the target shrinking down to the size of the standard "golf green hole", we can't possibly fit our projectile within the hole, so we must assume out of fairness to all competitors with "Bean Can" or larger mortar projectiles that merely striking the "Hole" somewhere will be good enough to take home the CASH.  So, since we can now hit the "Hole" target with just an edge of our 11" dia. mortar bomb, we can still win with much less accuracy by displacing your little "cup" with our shell crater!  Thank you, thank you, thank you!!

A hole-in-one or one big hole?

Mike and Tracy
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Tropico

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • *****
  • Posts: 634
  • Gender: Male
    • Tropico Beach
Re: Mortar shootin, 1863 style
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2009, 07:17:28 PM »
 ;D

Offline Victor3

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (22)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4241
Re: Mortar shootin, 1863 style
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2009, 11:39:01 PM »
...we can't possibly fit our projectile within the hole,...

Mike and Tracy

 Are you boasting again?

 ;D
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

Sherlock Holmes

Offline Cat Whisperer

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7493
  • Gender: Male
  • Pulaski Coehorn Works
Re: Mortar shootin, 1863 style
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2009, 01:12:18 AM »
    Thank you Norm and Douglas; you guys are great!  Before this recent tricky rules change by the Montana Moderator, we had to hit the very center of a 5 gallon bucket.  We had to accurately place that big water cooler jug EXACTLY on the center of the bucket to be in it.  NOW, with the target shrinking down to the size of the standard "golf green hole", we can't possibly fit our projectile within the hole, so we must assume out of fairness to all competitors with "Bean Can" or larger mortar projectiles that merely striking the "Hole" somewhere will be good enough to take home the CASH.  So, since we can now hit the "Hole" target with just an edge of our 11" dia. mortar bomb, we can still win with much less accuracy by displacing your little "cup" with our shell crater!  Thank you, thank you, thank you!!

A hole-in-one or one big hole?

Mike and Tracy

I was going to suggest a radius gauge with an index mark in the center for measuring each impact and determining which round hit inside the bucket closest to the actual center (it's too far out in the field to bring the CMM).

With the reduction in size of the hole and subsequent driving of stake and hole further into the turf by the much larger round we'll have to reconsider options for breaking ties!  It may even require high speed photography due to the nature of the impact and subsequent rearrangement of the turf.



Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
Cat Whisperer
Chief of Smoke, Pulaski Coehorn Works & Winery
U.S.Army Retired
N 37.05224  W 80.78133 (front door +/- 15 feet)

Offline Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12609
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: Mortar shootin, 1863 style
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2009, 03:17:50 AM »
...assuming any of you can get near the hole to start with. 

Offline Cannoneer

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3950
Re: Mortar shootin, 1863 style
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2009, 04:26:40 AM »
Now, Mike and Tracy, don't get too comfortable in your understanding that the 'Montana Bucket (at least it used to be a bucket) Contest' rules have finally reached a static state of evolutionary stasis, Douglas has not yet declared that the "golf ball hole target rule" has been chiseled in stone. The fact being obvious, that DD's imagination concerning the rules of this contest are in a constant state of flux, I think it would be prudent of you to prepare for even more minute target acquisition probabilities. The next evolutionary step in the rules of this contest may involve the use of a shot glass as a target, but then again that's still fairly huge, maybe a .22 long rifle case would be the ideal mark. If the .22 rimfire case does turn out to be the final choice, it would also probably be in your best interest to prepare for an aspect of this rule that may require your water cooler projectile to actually imbed itself entirely within the confines of the case when it lands on it, for you to finally be judged the winners of this competition. ;)
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12609
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: Mortar shootin, 1863 style
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2009, 04:58:20 AM »
Again BoomJ has called it, the rules are still in development...the rules will be extremely fair and design to ensure that the club achieves maximum profit for it's land acquisition fund.

It will be a bucket.  Down range is CRP land and we can't dig holes.   As to what size bucket, well I am still waiting to see what's available in the Easter bucket closeout sales.  But I do like Norm's idea of a flag so you can see where the bucket is in the waist high grass.  ;D

Offline Ex 49'er

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (8)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1975
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mortar shootin, 1863 style
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2009, 05:15:38 AM »
.

  As to what size bucket, well I am still waiting to see what's available in the Easter bucket closeout sales.   ;D

Maybe you can borrow an Easter Egg bucket from a grandchild.   ;D
If M&T use enough powder with their mortar; maybe the resulting hole can become a silo for an Air Force missle.  ;D ::)
When you're walking on eggs; don't hop!!

Offline Artilleryman

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1378
Re: Mortar shootin, 1863 style
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2009, 07:38:18 AM »
For waist high grass how about putting the bucket on top of a stake with the object being to knock it off. 
Norm Gibson, 1st SC Vol., ACWSA

Offline Cat Whisperer

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7493
  • Gender: Male
  • Pulaski Coehorn Works
Re: Mortar shootin, 1863 style
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2009, 08:06:23 AM »
...
 The next evolutionary step in the rules of this contest may involve the use of a shot glass as a target, but then again that's still fairly huge, maybe a .22 long rifle case would be the ideal mark
....

That WOULD be appropriate for the 'BB' caliber shooters!  Perhaps a .22 Short for stability? 
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
Cat Whisperer
Chief of Smoke, Pulaski Coehorn Works & Winery
U.S.Army Retired
N 37.05224  W 80.78133 (front door +/- 15 feet)