22-250 vs. 220 swift

[huntsman]

Which of these cartridges would you prefer for varmints up to light deer, and why?

[KN]

22-250 hands down. More factory choices available if you dont reload and a lot cheaper. Not that much difference in velocity to warrant the extra cost.   KN

[warf73]

KN covered  it pretty well.

What rifle do you want it in? More choices for 22-250 over the Swift.

Warf

[KYsquirrelsniper]

If you plan to shoot factory ammo, then I'd definitely go with the 22-250 for the vast ammo selection. If you reload, then it really doesn't make much difference, just pick which one you like best, as I personally can't tell the difference between the two unless they're shot over a chrono. FWIW, I reload and currently use the 22-250.

[busman202002]

I own both but have had the swift for years just bought a Weatherby Super predator in 22-250, really like the way it shoots. Taking it to the ranch this weekend to try it out on a couple does, if it hammers them like the swift has in the past I'll be switching to the 250 for good. More ammo to pick from.

[Coyote Hunter]

What KN said.

I shoot a .22-250 and download it a bit, 52g @ 3550fps.  What do I need a Swift for if I'm downloading the .22-250?  Plenty of "reach out and touch" even at the "slower" velocities, and barrel life should be longer.

[SAWgunner]

Swift (3rd generation Swift shooter).  There really is no different between the two, but Why not buy the infinity when everyone else has a toyota?  I am a realoader so factory loads are not an issue.  I just like owning something not many people have.

[paperpuncher]

I have a Ruger 77V heavy barrel (26") tang safety (1976) that was my favorite chuck rifle back in the 70's. It really hit those chucks here in North Jersey like a bolt of lighting. Shot mostly 52/53 grain Sierra HPs at around 3800 fps. Now I just use it for punching holes in paper, but it still groups around 5/8" at 100 yds. In my opinion they are both great varmint calibers, and both capable of great accuracy.

Paperpuncher

[IowaBuckHunter]

I like the 22-250 better, mostly becuase it has a longer barrel life.  This isn't much of an issue for the average shooter, but I shoot a LOT, and I don't want to worry about wearing out my barrel.  If you choose the swift, and handload, turn down the powder charge a bit and it will save on your barrel, and it will perform about the same as a 22-250 will.

[SAWgunner]

All conditions being the same, I think the .22-250 is the worse for wear.  For max loads, I think that the Swift has only about 2-3 grains more powder than the .22-250.  The hottest load for both of them are within 100 fps of each other.  I think the "Barrel Burning" issue has been laid to rest with modern steels.  I seem to remember that Cartridge pressure has more to do with throat erosion than anything, and the .22-250 operates at a little higher pressure (On average per load) than the Swift.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/220swift.htm

http://www.chuckhawks.com/22-250rem.htm

And more importantly,

http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/220.html

http://www.accuratereloading.com/220sw.html

99% of the people that have professionally evaluated the Swift can tell you that it is no more a barrel burner than the .22-250.  If you read all of the data, there is no way it could be.


SAW

[Paul Barnard]

You are not dealing with an expert here, but let me tell you what I think.  I would lean toward the 22-250.  I cannot recall ever hearing a story about a finicky 22-250.  On the other hand, the 220, while capable of fine accuracy, does seem to be a little fussier.  To further explain.  If you went out and bought 5 assorted rifles in each caliber and ran a random assortment of factory and handloads through them, the 22-250 would have better aggregate accuracy.  Just a hunch based on a good bit of 22-250 experience and quite a bit of studying the 220.  

Ballistically, there is no practical difference in them.  If you intend to shoot longer/heavier bullets (deer bullets) with either you need to note the rate of twist in the rifling.

[IowaBuckHunter]

hey gunner- you are right, given the load a 22-250 can be just as bad.  But not on the average.  220 loads go up to about another 5 grains of powder.  And in my opinion, the 250 is too hot, so the 220 is worse.  However they both are great rounds and would both do the job.  However most people agree on the 22-250.  Especially if there is going to be a lot of shooting- prairie dogs for example.  

try the 204, it shoots better than both of those combined!

[Lawdog]

Neither one when you throw in deer size critters.  They don't make a .22 centerfire that is suitable for deer hunting.  Lawdog
 

[DannoBoone]

Which of these cartridges would you prefer for varmints up to light deer, and why?

That's almost like preferring the Tactical 20 over the .204 Ruger, or visa
versa. Both are excellent.

A Hornady 55gr SP @ a mear 3600fps is lethal on anything up to, and
including deer, out of either cartridge. Feel free to read my post in the
following thread:

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=48410

[Ramrod]

Neither one when you throw in deer size critters.  They don't make a .22 centerfire that is suitable for deer hunting.  Lawdog
 

Don't tell that to all those folks that have been using them successfully for decades. They might think you're daft.

[Lawdog]

Neither one when you throw in deer size critters.  They don't make a .22 centerfire that is suitable for deer hunting.  Lawdog
 

Don't tell that to all those folks that have been using them successfully for decades. They might think you're daft.

Sorry but I can only go by my own experience and those that I know that have tried .22 centerfires(.22-250, .220 Swift, .223 Rem., etc.) for deer hunting.  Most all deer taken were shot more than once(talking heart/lung shots only) and to me that is NOT good performance.  Also more deer were lost using these little "bee stingers" than any other caliber.  There is a good reason why a number of states outlaw the use of .22 caliber centerfires for the taking of deer.  Lawdog
 

[DannoBoone]

Neither one when you throw in deer size critters.  They don't make a .22 centerfire that is suitable for deer hunting.  Lawdog
 

Don't tell that to all those folks that have been using them successfully for decades. They might think you're daft.

Sorry but I can only go by my own experience and those that I know that have tried .22 centerfires(.22-250, .220 Swift, .223 Rem., etc.) for deer hunting.  Most all deer taken were shot more than once(talking heart/lung shots only) and to me that is NOT good performance.  Also more deer were lost using these little "bee stingers" than any other caliber.  There is a good reason why a number of states outlaw the use of .22 caliber centerfires for the taking of deer.  Lawdog

"Most all deer taken were shot more than once(talking heart/lung shots only)"

Sorry, but I can't swallow that one........not after what I've seen on the
results of deer taken with the 22-250. One shot kills, in the lung area.....
most times not including the heart. Like I said previously, I preferred the
25-06, so it is not a personal thing with me. It has been my observation
that those who pooh-pooh the PROVEN .224's as deer rifles either made
shots they should not have taken, or have no experience at all and are
prejudiced by large caliber mentality.

" There is a good reason why a number of states outlaw the use of .22 caliber centerfires for the taking of deer.  Lawdog"

Really?? I have taken over a dozen deer in the last few years here in Iowa
using a method that is totally illegal in Colorado, but legal here. All but
one were dead-in-their-tracks shots, and he didn't go far. ML Saboted
bullets can't be used there out of a .50, but can here. So where is their
"good reason" in their law? Nebraska's performance-based law of 900ft#
of energy @ 100yds makes a lot more sense than so many states' case
length or caliber laws. After all, if Winchester comes up with one more
version of a short magnum, such as a WSSSM .270, it would be illegal in
some states, even if it had the performance of a 7mm Mag!

[Todd1700]

Sorry, but I can't swallow that one........not after what I've seen on the
results of deer taken with the 22-250.

I can buy it and pass it on as well. I have seen some horrible results from 22 calibered cartridges on deer. Those light 55 grain bullets moving at warp speed can do strange things apon impact with a deer. Yeah I've seen some kills with them that looked like God hit them with an invisible hammer but I've seen them get up and run off too. And when they do get up and run after a being hit with one of these small 22 caliber rounds the blood trail is often non-existent because there is almost never and exit hole and only a tiny entrance hole. My cousin and several more old chums of mine used to use a 22-250 on deer and they killed a lot of deer but they lost some too. Lost way more than any of the rest of us did. And before you think it, yes, these are guys who can shoot. I spent many hours walking and crawling through Alabama briar thickets looking for their deer. Thank God they have all retired their 22-250's to the gun cabinet. You will too if and when you pop the buck of a lifetime behind the shoulder and never find him.

   I'm not one of these magnum addicts either that think you need a 338 mag for deer. I have been a staunch defender of the 243 as a deer round but I firmly believe it is the minimun responsible caliber to use. Just because one person has been lucky enough to never have a problem with the little 22's on deer doesn't mean it's a great idea. I know people that have smoked cigarettes for 60 years and don't have lung cancer or emphysema but most people aren't so lucky.

[Lawdog]

Sorry, but I can't swallow that one........not after what I've seen on the
results of deer taken with the 22-250.

I can buy it and pass it on as well. I have seen some horrible results from 22 calibered cartridges on deer. Those light 55 grain bullets moving at warp speed can do strange things apon impact with a deer. Yeah I've seen some kills with them that looked like God hit them with an invisible hammer but I've seen them get up and run off too. And when they do get up and run after a being hit with one of these small 22 caliber rounds the blood trail is often non-existent because there is almost never and exit hole and only a tiny entrance hole. My cousin and several more old chums of mine used to use a 22-250 on deer and they killed a lot of deer but they lost some too. Lost way more than any of the rest of us did. And before you think it, yes, these are guys who can shoot. I spent many hours walking and crawling through Alabama briar thickets looking for their deer. Thank God they have all retired their 22-250's to the gun cabinet. You will too if and when you pop the buck of a lifetime behind the shoulder and never find him.

   I'm not one of these magnum addicts either that think you need a 338 mag for deer. I have been a staunch defender of the 243 as a deer round but I firmly believe it is the minimun responsible caliber to use. Just because one person has been lucky enough to never have a problem with the little 22's on deer doesn't mean it's a great idea. I know people that have smoked cigarettes for 60 years and don't have lung cancer or emphysema but most people aren't so lucky.

Todd,

When you said, "And when they do get up and run after a being hit with one of these small 22 caliber rounds the blood trail is often non-existent because there is almost never and exit hole and only a tiny entrance hole." you hit the bullseye.  Seen it happen too many times too.  I agree with you about the .243 being "the minimun responsible caliber to use".

DannoBoone,

Nebraska's performance-based law of 900ft# of energy @ 100yds makes a lot more sense than so many states' case length or caliber laws.

Actually I would rather see the law state that the energy @ 100 yards should be at least 1,000 fpe.  Sorry you can't "swallow that one" but I can only go by what I have seen and experienced.  I have seen a large number of hunters that have tried using "bee stinger" cartridges(including me) with way less than desirable results.  I don’t let anyone hunt my property that uses anything smaller than .243 Win.  Lawdog
 

[DannoBoone]

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

For whatever reason, your experiences are vastly different than mine, or
any one else I personally know.

[Don Fischer]

Can anyone tell me why anyone would want to use a 224 as a deer cartridge? Where did they get the idea in the first place? I can guarantee you this. If a deer was a dangerous animal, as we precieve dangerous, even tho it's small, nobody, make that, NOBODY, would even use a 30 cal on them! Funny how our perception of what's prudent to use on game has a direct bearing on the game's ability to hurt us!

[Lawdog]

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

For whatever reason, your experiences are vastly different than mine, or
any one else I personally know.

Danno,

A number of years ago on another, now dead forum(Shooters.com), a question was put out asking everyone's experience using .22 centerfires on deer.  One of the more popular threads with over 600 replies from over 400 different hunters responding, over 70% of those over 400 reported less than desirable results.  As you said your experience is different than mine and the many others that agree with that a .22 centerfires isn’t suitable for big game.  Good luck and good hunting.  Lawdog
 

[buffalobob]

If my memory serves me corerectly, P.O. Ackley built the 228 just to get around the ban on hunting deer with a 224.

Shot a small buck at 40 yds  with 225Win with 70 gn Speer.  Deer stumbled and fell down.  Then  he got back up and I shot him again.  I was not happy  because first round placement was perfect, so I switched to a nosler partition for the next season. Next season rolls around and sure enough at 80 yards good placement behind the shoulder but the spike buck (small) just downshifts into second gear and burns rubber outta there.  15 seconds later another hunter shoots him dead.  As mentioned by other posters there was almost no blood trail, just hoof tracks.  I was testing this small light gun as a possible first deer rifle for my son but it just was not for an inexperienced beginning hunter and I certainly was not going to tolerate that kind of performance on a "small" deer.  The gun has been put away and not fired since that day.

[Ramrod]

I think today's trend towards heavy and /or premium bullets is the problem here. You can't make an all-around gun out of these calibers. The .220 Swift and .22-250 Rem are proven to be instant killers with behind the shoulder shots using lighter varmint-type bullets, 50 or 55 grain softpoints. These work very well, but obviously, you don't want to hit a bone bigger than a rib. It is the explosive expansion caused by the high velocity that lets these little bullets kill so well.

[Don Fischer]

If Nosler would make a partition BB, Daisy would make a guide model Red Ryder and someone would want to know what kind of elk rifle it would make.

[buffalobob]

Thanks Ramrod,

It is always a good day when one learns how to correct a mistake.  I still do not  believe I will try it again, but at least I know what I was doing wrong.

[jro45]

I heard that they use the 70gr bullet and make neck shots with the 22-250
for deer. What I was told is that the bullet cuts the neck open every witch way. Myself I would not use the 22-250 for deer but some people do.

[Don Fischer]

OK. So many guy's have taken deer with these cartridge's we'll call them good, althought I'm with Lawdog. But understanding that the only requirement is that it has been done many time's, then what make's a better deer load, a 22 solid or a hollow point,,,,,,,, of we're talking rimfire here! And don't tell me it can't be done.

[cal sibley]

I think the diferences between the .22-250 and the .220Swift are minor enough to pretty much be disregarded.  Both are accurate and potent for their size.  Neither is noted for long barrel life when shot at full throttle so it's often wise to cut back a bit on the velocities.  Ammunition choices are better for the .22-250 if you're not handloading.  Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

[Swift516]

Use the Swift all the time.  If you reload..  If you don't, use the 22-250.  The swift is the cadillac of varmint cartridges.  If you want the bullet to go fast, use the 250 if you want it to go really fast, use the swift.  

As for hunting deer with the 224 bullet, I am all for it.  It takes some accuracy and shot placement, but they are more than capable in size to cleanly kill deer.  

I've shot many deer over the years with both calibers.  Not all shots were perfect, but they all died.  Most fall like the hand of Thor had crushed them.  I beleive that when you use monster bullets, they drive straight through.  When they do that , they don't expel their energy inside the animal, therefore; wasing it.  

When you shoot a deer with a smaller, but strudy, bullet it will expand and the energy will be spent inside the animal.  

I currently use nosler 60 gr. partitions in both the 250 and swifts.   I support their use and condone those who refuse to try and open their minds.