Author Topic: Barrel prices dropping? (Read 948 times)

handirifle · « **on:** November 18, 2004, 04:44:19 AM »

I was looking at a Natchez catalog I got recently and noticed Contender barrels were $215 which I thought was pretty reasonable since you don't have to ship the receiver etc. I don't own one but was re-thinking NEF's barrel fitting fee and the cost of shipping two ways etc. Well when I looked at NEF prices, it seems almost everything but the BC and stainless barrels are now $82.

Did I miss this before or were that many of them that low before. I thought for sure the 270, 308 were $92.

handirifle · « **Reply #1 on:** November 18, 2004, 04:54:38 AM »

While on on the subject of barrels, does the 7-08 ONLY come in superlight? Does the complete rifle come in std barrel?

BIGBOREFAN · « **Reply #2 on:** November 18, 2004, 05:31:01 AM »

The 7mm-08 in Superlite is a misprint. The barrel prices on my old sheet are running about 79.00 The new prices are 82.00 except for stainless and bull barrels. OK now you have 82.00 for barrel, 10.00 UPS to get it there, 15.00 fitting fee, and 10.00 UPS back to you. That is 117.00 I think they screwed up. I can get TC barrels for around 202.00 to 240.00 I can get a NEF rifle for 225.00 I can not see there thinkg here. I do not mind the minor price increase in the barrels but the 15.00 fitting fee is just insane.

BBF

v8r · « **Reply #3 on:** November 18, 2004, 07:07:42 AM »

I have to agree that the fitting fee is insane.You and I know all they do is go to the pile of barrels,and snap a few on untill they find one that fits.Exactly how hard is that.Sorry if I am trying to be smart,but they probably don't(HAND FIT ) anything.I can tell this by some of the handys that have left the factory screwed up that I have seen recently.

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #4 on:** November 18, 2004, 07:11:37 AM »

They are losing money on the $15 fitting fee. There is some margin built into the price of the barrel, of course, but they cannot take an action in the door, put it into the books, track it through the process, get it out of the books, label and package for shipping for $15.

At the same time, they can't tighten specs enough to make the barrels fully interchangeable because of all the shotgun and older actions out there. They are caught between a rock and a hard place.

At some point in the future, they will likely make a slight model change so that new barrels will no longer fit older or shotgun actions and can be made fully interchangeable among new actions. A slight change in the hinge pin diameter would do it. My crystal ball ain't clear enough to tell me when that will happen.

Brett · « **Reply #5 on:** November 18, 2004, 12:09:38 PM »

I'm betting they are working toward doing away with the barrel program all together. Think about it, as Leftoverdj has pointed out their handling cost has to exceed $15 so any profit is minimal at best. Secondly, more people are going to shop for used barrels to save money or purchase complete guns for not much more than the cost of having another barrel fitted by H&R and not have to contend with the long turn around times. I know I had thought about sending my Topper frame off to have a 20 Gauge barrel fit to it but with the price increases on the barrels, coupled with shipping and this new fitting fee I'm better off just buying a complete gun from Waly-World complete with a new gun warrantee.

JPH45 · « **Reply #6 on:** November 18, 2004, 12:46:43 PM »

Yeah, I think they would just as soon not fit barrels. If they charged what the job was actually worth, no one would want one. I hope that DJ is right and one day thee will be an NEF frame that doesn't require factory fitting of barrels, but I am also sure that when that comes, the prices of barrels will be more on the lines of TC's barrels. It is a mixed blessing. Perhaps they will just continue to offer some new chamberings every couple of years and leave well enough alone. When one thinks about it, $225 or so for a new rifle is not a bad deal.

Major · « **Reply #7 on:** November 18, 2004, 01:08:21 PM »

As an engineer I can tell you that the tighter the tolerances are then the higher the cost will be. You have to pay for all the time and material that goes into the items that end up out of tolerance and are scraped as well as the ones that are good enough to sell to your customer.

handirifle · « **Reply #8 on:** November 18, 2004, 01:40:59 PM »

The bigest cost of new receivers is going to be the CNC equip. Once purchased, it will actually LOWER production cost. Less human labor involved.

TC charges so much cause they have no competetion. If NEF did not have to "hand fit" their barrels, we could order them on the phone, and made the receiver was made strong enough for magnum class calibers then they would be competitive.

Remember the old TC's did not handle magnums either, at least I don't think they did.

safetysheriff · « **Reply #9 on:** November 18, 2004, 01:50:32 PM »

Quote from: Leftoverdj

They are losing money on the $15 fitting fee. There is some margin built into the price of the barrel, of course, but they cannot take an action in the door, put it into the books, track it through the process, get it out of the books, label and package for shipping for $15.

.

The $15 fitting fee is making a profit -- given the fact that they've already made money on the price of the barrel, and we pay return shipping. BigBore' had it right. They've really screwed up if you think about it and if you've got the money for a 'whole' rifle.

The price of the barrel probably includes it being assigned a 'grade' when it is finished as a unit with the injector and its housing installed. It gets its 'grade' from being put into a jig and measured. They put our rifle's frame into a jig at the factory, figure out its 'grade' and then put in the appropriately-graded barrel. They do so many of them that they run down the cost by using that system. Before the crying starts.......that's just my opinion based upon what we did in a factory making 8 cylinder engines. The close-fitting, tight-tolerance parts are gauged and given a designation -- such as pistons - and they fit into certain cylinders that have been gauged and assigned grades in the engine blocks. It's a lot harder in an engine plant, however, because you're building 217 engines an hour and have to coordinate all those cylinder bore grades with proper grades of piston size.

Building a Handi' is nowhere near that complicated! As much as I love these rifles, let's be honest......NEF has the process down and they've got years of engineering experience doing it.

It's called 'process engineering' and it's a refinement that saves some of the factories a lot of money.

I really do believe that Big Bore got it right.

Take care,

SS'

Major · « **Reply #10 on:** November 18, 2004, 02:04:37 PM »

Quote from: handirifle

The bigest cost of new receivers is going to be the CNC equip. Once purchased, it will actually LOWER production cost. Less human labor involved.

TC charges so much cause they have no competetion. If NEF did not have to "hand fit" their barrels, we could order them on the phone, and made the receiver was made strong enough for magnum class calibers then they would be competitive.

Remember the old TC's did not handle magnums either, at least I don't think they did.

Even CNC (Computer Numerical Control) has set up costs and tolerances involved. And there are humans involved. A machinist has to set it up, monitor the operation and oversee the raw stock feed. On a brand new design there could be some savings but not a lot and it will never happen on the existing design action/barrels. What you get with CNC is not always cheaper but it is better and the break even point to turn a profit is lower. Even CNC will turn out a product that is out of tolerance once in a while, just not as often as all hand machined parts do.

T/C does have competition for their barrels. Almost every custom barrel shop in this country (like Bullberry Barrel Works for one) makes barrels to fit the T/Cs.

And I have been shooting my Contender .357 Magnum since the early 1970s. The Contenders didn't handle the high pressure rifle rounds is what you are thinking of.

I would have to go along with BIGBOREFAN and safetysheriff on this one.

Brett · « **Reply #11 on:** November 18, 2004, 04:24:17 PM »

That $15 has to pay for someone at H&R/NEF to open the package with your receiver in it, tag (label) the receiver and fill out a work order with the customer information and desired barrel, etc. Then someone would have to 'grade' it as SS suggest. Then someone has to pull the appropriate grade barrel in the desired caliber. It would no dould have to be placed on your receiver by someone to confirm it is correct. Then someone has to engrave or scribe the serial number of your receiver on the new barrel. Then someone has to package your receiver and new barrel to be shipped back to you. Do you still think H&R/NEF is making a killing on your $15?

handirifle · « **Reply #12 on:** November 18, 2004, 07:06:24 PM »

major
I wasn't disagreeing with SS or BBF either, just staing a possible solution in the long run. Of course CNC has to have humans involved, just nowhere near as many hours.

True that many make barrels for the TC's. but TC still has the market for the receiver. And NO competition on that one. That was the part I was referring to.

Yes, I do think it would be a new model, maybe not a new design, but I'm sure they'd make it just different enough to keep us from exchanging barrels, then again, maybe we could send in our old barrels to be re-fitted to new receiver. Sorta like the TC Contender and Encore., sorta.

v8r · « **Reply #13 on:** November 19, 2004, 05:38:36 PM »

Major,I used to be a machinist.You can get a greater number of parts that are within tolerance from a cnc than you ever could from a manual mill.I think that would be a greater benefit to the company profit wise(due to less waste) and a nicer product for the customer.As long as you keep your cutting tools sharp and your vise/fixture square they should be good to go.Also have quality control check every few parts to insure the quality of the product.I think that would make all of us happier with the end product ,even if the average customer isn't going to buy additional barrels.