Author Topic: No guns at school (Read 1868 times)

44 Man · « **on:** November 18, 2004, 02:20:16 PM »

This is probably not the appropriate forum, but is of interest to us all. My 4 year old grandson got a toy gun today (yes, I know, I already have a Cricket on lay-away). Anyway, he wanted to take it to school and show his friends. We explained that it was against the law to take a gun to school, even a toy one. And that he could get in a lot of trouble and probably could not go back to school for a while. His next statement was classic, and I swear, it was not prompted or even hinted at by us. He said "You mean only robbers and bad guys can have guns at school?" Wow, a four year old can see it and our congressmen cannot! Duh! 44 Man

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 18, 2004, 02:31:23 PM »

Maybe in another twentyfive years we can send him to congress, at least that way there'll be at least one with come common sense!

jhm · « **Reply #2 on:** November 19, 2004, 12:42:28 PM »

When I was in high school I was on the school rifle team and that was in Detroit Mi. I will bet alot has changed since then, I would be willing to bet that you couldnt safely walk the streets after dark and enjoy a quiet evening at belle isle, which is a island in the Detroit River for those who havent been there. Just a little humor but when you start thinking about it, its not all that funny.

JIM

Paul S · « **Reply #3 on:** November 20, 2004, 02:49:24 PM »

44 man, your post reminds me of when my daughter was in 3rd or 4th grade and was studying the bill of rights. The teacher asked why our forefathers thought we would need the right to bear arms. There was the standard answers,to hunt for food,protection. My daughter said it was to protect the citizens from there own government if it went bad. The teacher had not gotten that answer before. I'm not sure where she came up with it. Sometimes the minds of kids can see through all the crap and see things for what they are.

williamlayton · « **Reply #4 on:** November 21, 2004, 12:55:14 AM »

Governments come and go doan they. Ours has come and gone and come and gone several times.
Blessings

papajohn428 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 21, 2004, 05:33:49 AM »

I had to laugh when my daughter got suspended from school for "Inappropriate Conduct". Her left-minded teacher was explaining to the class that guns were only good for killing people, and that they were safe at school because it was a gun-free zone. My daughter (12 at the time) stood up, said, "Oh, what a bunch of Liberal B.S!" and then proceeded to explain how they were all sitting ducks if a gun-toting criminal showed up. I had to meet with the principal the next day to discuss the "Incident", and I let her have it. In the end, the teacher wound up apologising to the class for only presenting one side of the issue, and I gave the class an hour-long talk on Guns in American History. My daughter said it was the liveliest discussion the class had ever had, and the teacher even got in on the fun. I don't know if anyone was "converted" that day, but it sure was enlightening for all involved!

Papajohn the Pontificating Pistol Proponent

Van/TX · « **Reply #6 on:** November 22, 2004, 10:13:50 AM »

Man how things have changed. When I was in grade school we brought guns for show and tell

.....Van

Questor · « **Reply #7 on:** November 22, 2004, 11:54:52 AM »

If, God forbid, that kid is ever orphaned, you can send him to us. I like smart kids.

williamlayton · « **Reply #8 on:** November 22, 2004, 11:22:47 PM »

Van, Texas home of Tex ritter, Big Bopper and few other things, but on to the discussion.
Times change, doan they fellers. Time when I was growin ( up, not out, as now :oops: ) they was in ever car an truck, at least fer them folks that had a car or truck. Plenty of parkin spaces, boys.
Well boys, today, they is in everbodys pants. I got to say though, I would sure like too keep em out of the schools these days though. There is not a lot of sense shown by tha kids these days, they do not think things thru, react too quick.
Blessings

sd550 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 23, 2004, 08:51:22 PM »

When I was in school my Model 70 hung in the gun rack of my pickup during deer season and my 10-22 stayed in the rack the rest of the year! Whole different world now though. :oops:

reakin · « **Reply #10 on:** November 24, 2004, 06:55:34 AM »

I know a guy whose son got suspended for wearing an earring that was a mini replica of a pistol to school. You almost have to wonder if these people that run these schools are that stupid, how can we trust them with our kids? reakin

Duffy · « **Reply #11 on:** November 24, 2004, 07:12:45 AM »

When I took hunter safety in 68 I took my 20ga to school on the bus so I could finish out the course at the gun club that day. The teacher just told me to leave it in the coat closet in the back of the room. Nobody even gave it a second thought. And at that time no one ever thought of hurting anyone else with a gun because it was WRONG! If you got in trouble you were in SERIOUS TROUBLE and that really scared the crap out ya. That also kept you on the straight and narrow. That's the problem today they don't know the difference between RIGHT and WRONG, and don't really get reprimanded when they commit a crime. Too bad that by that time it's too late

williamlayton · « **Reply #12 on:** November 25, 2004, 12:20:47 AM »

REAKIN--
Educators are not stupid, well most of the time, they are given rules they must follow also. Lets hear the rest of the story about this earring thing and I will bet it is a lot more to do about it than what has been presented.
Blessings

44 Man · « **Reply #13 on:** November 25, 2004, 02:49:53 AM »

I'd say the earing thing is probably just as it was stated. They are really off the wall with that. I heard (been a couple of years, so I don't remember what state, but I do remember the story) that one young child was kicked out for pointing his finger like a gun and saying 'bang'. You have to remember, we don't have public schools like they would like us to believe. What we have are 'government' schools, run according to the rules estabilished by the buracracy in D.C. If you don't follow their rules, you don't get their money. It's a shame. 44 Man

Matt in AK · « **Reply #14 on:** November 25, 2004, 04:16:07 AM »

I can remember taking a Stevens Favorite rolling block 22 to school when giving a presentation for some sort of history class. I broke it down and put it in my locker. No big deal.

Hey, at least the schools here are putting archery into the curriculum for PE.

williamlayton · « **Reply #15 on:** November 25, 2004, 11:38:32 PM »

My wife has taught 37 years, is now in her last year in Middle school ( used to be Jr High ). They have a dress code, due to gang influence, and I do not believe ear rings are allowed.
They spend a lot of time enforcing dress codes.
Kids are not as they used to be and the big difference is the expectations of parents on the kids. First generation Orientals have parents which expect their children to obey and do well in school. They keep up with progress reports, ect.
Most other children are sent to school as day care and the parents do not want to be bothered with how the children are progressing. They believe every thing the child says and blames the school when the child has problems and fails to learn.
This is why most parents which are concerned about their childrens education are putting them in private schools. The atmosphere in private schools is more conducive to learning as it is a more controlled atmosphere.
I tend to put blame on parents for the lack of their childs learning.
There are still many children who get good educational backgrounds in public schools but the parents take an interest in what the child is doing.
Teachers can only present the opportunity to learn, they cannot force a child to learn and if the parent does not expect much why should the child do any more than is expected of him/her.
Blessings

44 Man · « **Reply #16 on:** November 26, 2004, 08:14:42 AM »

Yes, there are still Parents (and Grandparents) doing their job. Clearly state your expectations. Encourage them and hold them accountable. 44 Man

papajohn428 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 28, 2004, 07:52:54 AM »

Part of the problem is that the school systems have lowered the standards, so the "learning Challenged" kids don't feel bad. All that does is show the smarter kids that they don't have to try very hard to do well, there's no incentive to be better. Heaven forbid someone feels like they're not just as "Special" as the rest. In my day, that was the incentive to try harder! Now they do the minimum they have to, and nothing more, extra credit is practically unheard of. If I hadn't worked such goofy hours at the PD, I'd have home-schooled my kids. They learned a lot more at the dinner table during family discussions than they did at school!

Papajohn

Darrell Davis · « **Reply #18 on:** November 28, 2004, 12:58:10 PM »

Hey there folks,

Figured I may a well tell this story to further underline the way things have changed for the worse.

The story was told to me by my father who was born in "94." That s 1894 fer you young folks out there.

The situation developed in a time when there were a number of older/larger students in school due to a number of reasons, one of which was the fact that boys many times stayed home to work on the family farm, only going to school when work and/or weather allowed.

Seemed this school had a several of these "students," most of which were not intersted in being cooped up in a classroom with a bunch of little kids.

The problem as it developed grew around the problems the older students caused and the discipline the teachers tried to bring about. As the teacher would bare down on the problem makers, the "students" would complain to their dads who would show up at school and send the teacher down the road.

This had happened a number of times before the final replacement during this situation came to teach. The difference this time, was that the "new" teacher had heard about the problem and came prepared to deal with the trouble makers.

In due course after the new teacher's arrivel, the fathers of the trouble makers again showed up at school to again terminate the teacher's employment.

When the men made their mission known, the teacher reached into his desk and pulled out a couple of handguns which he then laid on top of the desk. He then ask if the men had anything else they wanted to discuss before they left, to which they replied in the negative.

The story ends with the teacher proceeding with what he was hired to do.

I also had a hunters safety class in school - along about 1957 - in Salem, Oregon - my oh my how things have changed, and some still want to get rid of God, Prayer and the Ten Commandments.

Shouldn't we have learned by now? Somehow this experment in "situation ethics" just isn't cutting it. Could it possibly be true that there is a "RIGHT" and a "WRONG"? Can there still be any doubt?

Keep em coming! :wink:

IntrepidWizard · « **Reply #19 on:** November 28, 2004, 01:24:24 PM »

As I have stated elsewhere on this Forum I was on the Rifle team and took my Remington 22 to school three days a week and when I was a Junion and Senior in High School took a shotgun with my buddies and their guns to school,hunted before and after school.

f

williamlayton · « **Reply #20 on:** November 29, 2004, 12:29:27 AM »

Special children do have a place in schools. They can have advantages, if you want to call them advantages, that are not available to the gifted and talented. The trouble is they are both in the same classes, well in elementary and middle school, when they reach Hi School courses designed for both are available.
In middle school those special students have a time limit they can be held back. They then must be passed on. These special students are ones which have not only learning disabilities but often social disabilities ( not to be understood as bad kids, though that group falls into this category ).
Folks, teaching is the most difficult profession I know of today. Parents are responsible for making sure their children are properly motivated. Teachers cannot give the individual attention necessary to accommodate the motivation required to cause the able student to achieve to the fullest.
It is the combination of both the parent and teacher that brings out the best a student has to offer.
Thus enters the private school. Here children are in smaller classes which allow more individual attention. The student is motivated "up", not drug down by peers who are not required to perform.
The answer to the public school problem lies partly in money, allowing for smaller classes. This will never take the place of the motivational force of parents who care and require their children to become all they can be. Even in the best case there are children who will manage to fall thru the crack.
No perfect system. You do the best you can and trust the rest to the Lord.
Blessings

mikemayberry · « **Reply #21 on:** November 29, 2004, 01:05:16 PM »

After considering and agreeing with most of your remarks, I offer the following thoughts of what I see over and over:

Too many kids today play video games for hours on end. They kill "monsters" or even very real looking soldiers, terrorists or bad guys. When they run out of points or get shot or shoot all the opponents, they simply hit reset and do this over and over until their brains go to mush.

Then, whether at school the next day or on the streets driving their cars, they are faced with choices. Having been programmed or trained to react the way the game has taught them, they do what they have been practicing, sometimes with a real weapon in hand. Then come the headlines!

The difference between then and now as many of you have well stated is that then when you shot something as a youthful hunter, you saw it die. You felt pain and all the feelings that go with seeing an animal die that you shot.

Now, kids just hit reset, have no feelings, and go on, and on, and on.

Conditioned response before they are emotionally ready if you ask me.

Mike

henry1 · « **Reply #22 on:** November 29, 2004, 03:17:35 PM »

They have taken away our rights. We are only asked if we want to say the plege now. I remember at the beging of the year only a few would stand and repeat it. now almoast everyone does. I think its rediculus to still have kids not saying it. If they dont want to participate in things to support and back up our country then they are not welcome here and they should leave. Conform to the rules, and if you dont your outa here. Thats the way it should be. Rare is it herd in my school of people hunting or fishing. "You own a gun?" is what i always get from em when they find out I hunt. "that is so mean to kill poor inocent animals, they didnt do anything to you". They cant grasp why we hunt and how long its been a "Heritage". We usualy hunt after school but we always park the truck off campus so nobody can say anything. We even took it to the head of security about it. They seem to trust us but i guess its cause we dont fit your normal High School profile. 17 yrs old blue cowboy cut jeans, boots, hats and carhart. Thats us. We are the minority at our school. Wer the only ones with trucks and campers. You outa see them kids, they act like they never seen a camper before. Sorry if i got off topic its just crazy in this world today with all of these kids that dont have a darn clue. They sit in clase and get high, dont say the plege and say how war is bad and how bad bush is and that our gov't is crap. Like i said before, they need to leave the country if they dont like it. People, total strangers are protecting them from death and thats all they say. They have no idea how bad war is. Death is a terible form in all its ways but its either kill, or be killed. Protection is the key thing to this country if it makes it anywere in my generation. somtime i wish i could become a hermit and live bymyself in the mountains, and off the land. away from these things that make me so sick. Its rediculus nowdays and its only gona get worse. How sad. Hank.

henry1 · « **Reply #23 on:** November 29, 2004, 03:20:04 PM »

I duno, just my 2 cents.

wiski · « **Reply #24 on:** December 01, 2004, 08:57:16 AM »

Henry, you will do just fine in life. You sound like a fine young man.

In 1984, I took my 12ga to highschool for a speech. We needed to demonstrate "something" for the 10min speech, so I showed the class how to properly (yet quickly) clean a shotgun. Kept it in my locker before and after that perticular class, and carried it right down the crowded hall in the case.

No problems, and that was only 20 yrs ago. My how times have changed. It was a Catholic highschool in a 60k population town in Wisconsin.

Just my experience on this topic.

henry1 · « **Reply #25 on:** December 01, 2004, 04:01:18 PM »

Thanks wiski. Hank.

Daveinthebush · « **Reply #26 on:** December 01, 2004, 06:30:29 PM »

Federal law states that firearms are not allowed within 500 feet of a school.

Exceptions: A home, a business there before the school was build, or driving by for a legitmate purpose.

We have a rifle team and the kids can bring firearms in a case to school for shooting. We also have an open pistol range for the community one night a week, again, bring the firearm in a case and go directly to the range.

A police officer on duty.

For instructional purposes such as firearms instruction and survival courses. (I always tell the principal first)

Firearm parts; stocks and such for repair are Ok too, I have the kids bring them directly to the shop. After school hours I have even repaired complete firearms in the shop with a few simple rules: no ammo, I check the firearm before it is brought in and you must leave school grounds immediately.

(When I lived in Shaktoolik the building principal and I both had appartments in the school. Both of us were allowed to keep our firearms in the school.)
(In Elim Alaska I would bring my 870 to the high school for the science teacher when he did walks with the class to observe nature. Grizzly were fairly common around the school.)

_____________________________________________________________
Knifes with blades longer than 3" are also prohibited. Weapons look-a-likes are also not allowed.

Schools can create their own rules for such things that could be used as a weapon: Spiked braclets, chains .....

The earing thing sounds a little far fetched. As a parent I would have fought that one for all it was worth just on principle.

rockbilly · « **Reply #27 on:** December 02, 2004, 04:11:59 PM »

I can understand why guns are not allowed at school these days. Most (MOST) kids today have no sense of responsibility. Their parents are too busy to instill good moral values, Hollywood influences their thinking, they are mostly a "what's in it for me group", they place no value on their, or your life, and think the world owes them a living. I agree, there are a lot of fine kids out there, but they are a product of a good home, taught to respect others and to assume responsibility for their actions. Bleeding heart judges let kids off too easy, "Little Johnny didn't get enough oatmeal cookies while growing up so he is not responsible for killing the teacher." It's a dog eat dog world for most kids just trying to fit in at school.

I was raised on a farm, taught at an early age that guns are a tool used for killing. I was exposed to hunting at an early age, helped with slaughtering cattle, so I knew once the trigger was pulled, life was over. I had responsibilities, I fed and milked every day, I helped with the crops, planting and picking (Cotton picking, that's why I left home) I was taught to say "Yes Sir, No SIr, Thank You and Please, I was taught to stand up and be responsible for my actions, and I attended church every time the church house doors opened.

As I see it, these differences are the major cause for most of our crime problems today.

king nero · « **Reply #28 on:** December 05, 2004, 06:13:58 AM »

The worries now is also having fear for shooting at each other:
I don't know what the situation is in the USA, but over here, 20 years ago when we had a fight among 'comrades' at school, a fistfight would do the job.
Day after, we were the same comrades as before.
Now, children aren't as responsible or don'tr have common sense that was 'common' 20 years ago, and would most likely grab for a weapon in case of a fight. with all consequences, of course.

I think sometimes a physical punishment can be as effective, or even more so, for the health of lil' brains.

Paladin · « **Reply #29 on:** December 05, 2004, 10:47:07 AM »

of course this is just my tale on it, but I think the schools quell the fighting spirit thats in all of us. win I was in school if you got into a beef with some one, you went to the gym put on the gloves and knocked some sense into each other. If kids fight now (in or out of school) they get booted of sports or expeled even if they just defiend them selves. they are so confined that when they do blow, it's in a major way. I think that is where these school shooting come from. It's a sad state when they expect kids to act like adults and never give them the chance to learn how. you all have a nice day.