Thanks Veral

[Badnews Bob]

I dropped my first deer, a 125lb doe useing your 180gr LBT over 21grs of H4227 in my .357 max handi rifle at about 30yards. I hit her a little high and aft but took out both lungs and the liver leaving a nickle size hole coming out. She ran about 60 yards and piled up. Perfect bullet performance looks like to me. Thanks.

[Veral]

Thanks for the nice report.  You got very good results for sure, and the trajectory will be flat with tht fast load.  You won't go wrong staying with it, but the fastest killing effect  with the 38 cal FN bullet is when driven at 1400 up to 1800 fps.  On game up to at least elk, most will lay down where they are hit, at this velocity, or perhaps cut a little circle or take a few slow steps before folding up.    I suspect your velocity is close to 2100 fps??  The 38 FN will kill very clean, and comparable to normal high velocity jacketed bullets when driven at speeds to well over 2500 fps.

   I guess the point I'm trying to make is that after 45 years of hunting, most of it with high velocity rifles and jacketed bullets, the results with moderate mild recoiling, and low blast loads using the wide nosed cast bullets has spoiled me completely for woods hunting.  I find speeds as low as 1200 fps with scoped riles and sighted to hit where the crosshairs are at 100 yards, give me no trajectory problems out to 200 yards, which is extreem range when hunting in wooded country like most US hunters hunt big game in.  The report is so mild that there is no pain to the ears, and game lays where it is hit, so the guy who shot it instead of someone setting on a stump 100 yards away who watches it fall.

     A flat trajectory is more important than an instant kill to many shooters, if ranges tend to be over 100 yards,  they know how to track and hunting populations aren't too congested.  I like more speed there too.

[Badnews Bob]

Thanks again Veral, I chronred this load at 1980fps and it worked very well but I may back it off a little to below 1800fps and try it next time. I use peep sights and this load is very accurate to 100yrds where I practice at. Thanks again

[Veral]

The number one issue is put the bullet where the light is if you want to knock the lights out!  So stay with your accurate load.  You are working at a velocity where cast of almost any alloy will hold together well, and if hardness is over 20 bhn, will not expand or breakup at all unless a heavy bone is hit.  So your stout load will perform on any game you want to hunt on this continent.

Of interest to other shooters.  Cast bullets at speeds over 2600 fps can blow to powder on impact in extreemly cold weather.  Say 0 deg. F and below.  My book was written while I lived in Arizona, where I never shot large game at temperatures below 10 deg. F, so the high velocity performance I talk about is limited to temperatures above 10 deg F.  Up here in North Idaho, there are times when 10 degrees seems like spring has arrived, and I've learned to hold a 2400 fps velocity ceiling with lead, for big game hunting loads.

Ironically, high velocities are easy to obtain in cool temperatures, say 60 deg F and below, when using LBT bullet designs and lubricant.  The 7 and 30 magnums can be run at max throttle (3300-3400 fps) with good hunting accuracy.  But don't shoot anything larger than maybe 75 pounds with such loads.  The cold lead which makes heavy loads like this possible, is too brittle to withstand the high speed impact is antimony content is over 1%.  In other words, wheel weight alloy with 2% tin added, then diluted with half lead.  Bullets oven heat treated to get the hardness up to stand high chamber pressures.  If you want to experiment with the highest possible velocities for big game, that is your alloy and method.  Test the bullets ability to hold together on impact by shooting into water filled plastic jugs at close range in the coldest weather you think you many encounter when hunting.  I put a piece of 2 by framing lumber behind one one gallon jug.  If the bullet makes it through the 1 1/2 inch of fir plank after smacking the water, it will work fine on game up to at least elk.  If you get only pieces hitting the plank, lower the velocity.  Don't step outside with gun and ammo warmer than ambient to do this test.  Leave them in the cold till they are down to ambient temperature.  Stay inside and sip coffee if you like while the gun is chilling.  Your body temperature won't effect the bullets performance!!

[Haywire Haywood]

What velocities do you recommend your .500" 440gr WFN be driven to for max "lay down & die" effect from the 500 S&W Mag?  I'll be using one of the new NEF Handi-rifles that will be chambered for it.  I expect with the 22" barrel, higher velocities than book are probable since they are using pistols for reference barrels.  I figure if it only needs 1600 there's no point in punishing either my brass or shoulder pushing it faster.  I'll be using it on 100-150lb-ish whitetail next season.

thanks,
Ian

[Veral]

1200 fps.  If you shoot them faster, kill speed will go down.  If you want high speed to get a flatter trajectory, select a smaller meplat bullet which gives around a 125 displacement velocity as calculated by the formula in my book.