a good day not to be hunting....

[myronman3]

in the area i usually hunt,  some crackpot went nuts today and shot a bunch of folks.  i have heard up to 9, with several dead.  so far i just hearing what is coming in over the grapevine, but i guess the person is still on the loose.  being a small town with not much around us,  i locked up the house and strapped on the 45.   i sure hope they get this nut.  
   no solid info yet as to who or why.  i will post up once i get more info.  i do know they law is working very hard to find him, they even have some helicopters running around.  some to carry out the dead and wounded,  others to help search.  
   the worst part is that i heard it is a friends' family that is involved; so i am afraid chances are high i will know some of the folks injured or killed.  

just goes to show you never know what you are going to encounter, or where.  

everyone be safe out there.

[New Hampshire]

Thats why Im glad Ive got 2 other friends, and another great guy we met out hunting who is becoming a regular, with me.  Someone wants to try something with one of us they are gonna have to deal with 3 shotguns loaded with slugs and a .44 Mag Redhawk.  But your right, it sure is scary that you can never tell whos gonna lose it and when or where.
Brian M.

[mr.frosty]

it is a sad society we live in just becareful

[OrangeWing]

It was just on Fox News.  5 people dead & the guy turned himself in.  They said he got mad when the people that owned some land would NOT let him hunt there.  So, he went home and brought back a rifle & killed them all.

[myronman3]

the guy did not turn himself in.  they caught the guy after he got lost.  he was out of ammo.  
   the facts are still not too clear,  but we do know  five killed, three wounded.  one of the wounded is a friend, and he is the worst off of the three survivors.  right now he is fighting for his life and i have heard that they are moving him because he aint doing so good.  
   and the shooter was tresspassing. they asked him to leave, he started to comply, once he was 40 yards out, he turned and started to shoot them.  when others came to help after hearing some had been shot, they were shot also.  fathers, sons, a daughter, brother-in-laws.  

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6551094/

please pray for the survivors and their families.  there is a lot of pain, and they need it.

[myronman3]

the guy did not turn himself in.  they caught the guy after he got lost.  he was out of ammo.  
   the facts are still not too clear,  but we do know  five killed, three wounded.  one of the wounded is a friend, and he is the worst off of the three survivors.  right now he is fighting for his life and i have heard that they are moving him because he aint doing so good.  
   and the shooter was tresspassing. they asked him to leave, he started to comply, once he was 40 yards out, he turned and started to shoot them.  when others came to help after hearing some had been shot, they were shot also.  fathers, sons, a daughter, brother-in-laws.  

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6551094/

please pray for the survivors and their families.  there is a lot of pain, and they need it.

[C A Plater]

I'm saddened to hear of the death of Danny Drew, the latest to succumb.  My prayers are there for the victims, their familes and friends.

[Questor]

This has bombed Minnesota hunter relations with the Hmong back to the stone age. I am actually scared of the Hmong hunters because of their apparently universal disregard for even the most basic hunting laws, such as wearing orange.  I haven't witnessed anything really bad, but have witnessed a few cases of shooting squirrel nests with volleys of sustained fire, driving in places that are clearly marked as prohibiting motor vehicles, fish poaching, tresspassing, and bad gun handling.  I have yet to see one wearing orange, though our laws require it even for small game hunting.  For these reasons I simply leave whenever I meet a Hmong in the field.  

It's sort of like dealing with dumb teenagers in who are actually grown men in their thirties and forties. My last encounter wasn't bad, but was a case of bad judgement. His car was stuck up to the floorboards  in mud and  by the time I pulled it out, I had lost my best hour of hunting.  Nobody in their right mind should have been driving a conventional car on that rutted and muddy road, and I don't know how he made it as far as he did. Sometimes it's the little things that cause the most friction.

The Hmong have a serious public relations problem in the hunting fields here in Minnesota. No amount of good can compensate for the mass murder committed on Sunday, now up to six souls. But perhaps this is the high profile case that can turn things around. I don't care who I share our hunting lands with, but I do expect whoever it is to follow the laws and mores of the land.

[bigbore442001]

This is going to be a tough situation to deal with. What more regulations can you add? You need permission on private land. You need to wear orange. There are a host of other laws as well.

It is a black eye on sportsmen for people who do not understand the whole situation. I have heard of the same stories concerning the Hmong. I am not sure what you can do about something like that. Culture is something that is ingrained and hard to change.

[Lawdog]

and the shooter was tresspassing. they asked him to leave, he started to comply, once he was 40 yards out, he turned and started to shoot them. when others came to help after hearing some had been shot, they were shot also. fathers, sons, a daughter, brother-in-laws.

That pretty much matches the police reports I have been able to get a hold of.  The first two hunters forgot that they were confronting an armed stranger.  Just because he was hunting didn’t make him a decent person.  When the others came to the assistance’s of the first two their mistake was to go unarmed.  The real pity is that Wisconsin doesn’t have the death penalty, Chai Vang needs to take those thirteen steps up and a long drop on a short rope.  As a land owner I have had to confront armed strangers(trespassers hunting or marijuana growers scouting for new plot sites) on a number of occasions and you don’t leave them with a loaded weapon.  Here in Northern California land owners have to problem of marijuana growers.  They are the worst as they shoot first and don’t ask any questions.  My family and I hopes and prayers go out to the victims and their families.  We pray for the speedy recovery of the last two that were wounded.  It’s not the same world as it was 20 or so years ago and now a days hunters have to watch out while in the woods.  You never know when you may stumble across some nut or marijuana grower and find yourself having to defend your life.  Lawdog
 

[New Hampshire]

Questor, could you please inform me who the Hmong are?  A guy at work mentioned the name, but Ive never heard of them?  He seems to think they are a Laotian tribe?  And from the sounds of it they dont seem to be very.....hmmm.......sociable?
Thanks,
Brian M.

[rockbilly]

This whole thing stinks, according to the news tonight, the guy was hunting with an SKS loaded with a 30 round mag..  The law should have jumped his butt on that too.  He said someone fired on him first, that story sound a little fishy.

According to the news, the guy was from Laos, had been in the states for several years, even served a tour in the Army.  They said most of the  folks that get into this country don't understand the concept of private land.  

Today, I read an article in the local newspaper that said since Bubba Bush took office the number of legal and illegal immigrants in America has risen to over 20 million.  They said it is easier to get in now than it was before 9-11.  And Bubba in his recent meeting with Fox want's to allow another 4 million in next year.

I have a real problem with this concept of immigration.  Its so bad now that many schools have to teach in several langues.  One school in Dallas has people from 26 different countrys enrolled, they have to teach in the language the student knows.  You are in America, we speak english, that's what you will be taught in.

I think we can expect more of this kind of incident.  A lot of those who come to America are criminals in their country, have no knowledge of American laws, customs or the penalty for violating the law.  They only know Bubba will ensure they get a LARGE government check each month.

[myronman3]

the problem with what you are saying, lawdog, is that this is a very liberal state.  IF they would have unarmed him before letting him leave, the law would have had their ass.  people would have said "who do they (landowners) think they are?"  say what you will, that is the way it is here.    i dont like it one bit.  
   the hmongs are a group of folks from laos and vietnam.  they helped our guys in 'nam, and were persecuted when we bailed.   some folks here try to put a bandaid on the bad memories by bringing large groups of them here to live.  while i understand their plight,  i insist they obey the same laws as us.  
    folks are already crying about racism here; vang is claiming they shot at him first.  funny, all those guys and one gun between them.  and i can assure you if they would have shot at him first, they would all still be here now.  the fact is they had no malice toward the man, they just wanted him off of their property.  
    if the  hmong leaders are so worried about how they are treated,  perhaps they could explain how vital it is to follow the laws everyone else does and not expect everyone to let them slide.  the fact is they are given more assistance to get on their feet than any of us.  in short- we dont owe you nothing.  earn what you want like the rest of us.  
    denny drew was a friend, a great man, and a valued member of our community.   he had a few faults, but EVERYONE loved him.  he was a man's man, he would go anywhere and steal the show everytime. and he especially had a way with the ladies, and they sure liked him.  i never met anyone who didnt like him instantly, and that is a rare thing indeed.    when i learned he had died, i cried.  and i dont cry over much.    
   and denny was just one of the six people murdered.  all six were excellent people, friends and neighbors that will be sorely missed.   things just aint going to ever be the same without them.

[Mikey]

New Hampshire:  The Hmong Tribesmen are an indigeous group of hill tribesmen from SE Asia.  They are found throughout the area, with many in Laos and Cambodia.  We worked with many of the tribes during the Vietnam war as they were excellent in the field.

Unfortuneatly for them and us, they have little regard, or even awarenss of the notions of private property and hunting requirements.  They may also be socially immature when it comes to things like hunting.  

None the less, the SOB shot and killed five men and wounded 3 more with a semi-auto AK.  They caught him later - he did not turn himself in.  

It has always worried me that I might find someone like that in one of my tree stands and I have often wondered what I would do.  I have had to draw down on a number of tresspassers and poachers in my time and always expect trouble, during and after, and am prepared for it - it really screws the day's hunting but some of these guys (in my stands) were drunk and belligerant, and I always expect the worst.  What is going to happen now where that happened is anyone's guess.  There has been bad blood between the Hmongs and the local hunters in that area before, so this might not be good.  I just hope everybody keeps a level head.  Mikey.

[Questor]

New Hampshire:

The Hmong, pronounced mong and rhymes-with-pong, are Asiatic people native to Laos and, I believe, to Cambodia.  Traditionally, they are principally agrarian.  Hmong are one of the largest immigrant populations in the Minneapolis/St Paul area. Somalis and Mexicans are the two other major groups.  Their culture is very similar to that of the rural South Vietnamese.  They really add a spark of diversity to a mostly white population. With so much of the population being first generation Americans, they have brought many of their customs to the U.S.  The dances and weddings really are marvelous.  Their most impressive artwork is the beautiful needlework that is both displayed for decoration, and worn for adornment by women.  Many are very enthusiastic and skilled gardeners and we get much of our best produce from the Hmong farmers during the summer farmer's market season. Like most new immigrant populations they are mostly very industrious and decent people.

The dark side is what put them on the national radar screen.  To a large degree this is unfair because the Vang murders are obviously not representative of the Hmong community. However, this tragic event has triggered an escape valve of frustration about Hmong hunters.  There is a very conspicuous problem with poaching and tresspassing that cannot be denied or covered up. Dramatic domestic violence seems to be rather high, or at least it gets publicized more. Such things as a recent case of a woman killing all of her kids (six, I believe), and then of course Vang's history with threatening his wife are examples.  Deaths that are apparently sudden and stress related have been a mystery among Hmong men-- I don't know if they've figured out the cause yet.  One of the problems I sense, perhaps incorrectly, is that, like the Cuban immigrants of 45 years ago, the women don't get out much into society and stay at home a lot. I think this leds to some problems of isolation.

[Arizona Jake]

Gents:

Last weekend's tragic events have for sure left a black eye on the Hmong population, not only in Minnesota, but also in Wisconsin, specifically in the Sheboygan area. I lived there for two years and met a few Hmong who worked with me. Most of these folks were responsible, hard-working and avid fishermen (women and kids also), as well as hunters. I never witnessed any of them breaking the law, but there are always those in ANY group that spoil things for the rest.

I really belive all LEGAL immigrants should receive some sort of AMERICAN cultural training. I took it upon my self to expose my wife, who came in LEGALLY from Mexico to our customs and traditions. She blends-in and gets along well with everyone because she has assimilated (horrors!) into our American society. If we push assimilation rather than the corrupt, politically correct practice of cultural segragation, we will probably never experience anything like this again. Just my $0.02  

[New Hampshire]

Thanks Questor, very interesting.  I had never heard of these folks before.  Now I know, and knowing is half the battle  :wink: .

Gents:

I really belive all LEGAL immigrants should receive some sort of AMERICAN cultural training. I took it upon my self to expose my wife, who came in LEGALLY from Mexico to our customs and traditions. She blends-in and gets along well with everyone because she has assimilated (horrors!) into our American society. If we push assimilation rather than the corrupt, politically correct practice of cultural segragation, we will probably never experience anything like this again. Just my $0.02  

Arizona Jake, I couldnt agree more!  It seems that ANY immigrant could be well served by some sort of "cultural training."  It just makes sense that doing so would allow them and us to better mesh together as a cohesive socioty.  All we need for proof is to look back when requierments were made that basic english be learned.  We all communicated with ease and we all blended as one.  Germans still spoke German, and Mexicans Spanish.  But the ability to have basic conversations with other ethnic groups only bettered community relations.  Its sad that a guy came in to apply for a job and needed his girlfriend to translate for him.  How is he supposed learn to preform a job safely when he cant understand his co-workers?  Ive agreed that we have needed to close the borders and put the military in support of the boarder patrol, and institute "common sense" immigration policies.  Simple application and background checking would reveal a lot.  Honest people get in, the sahdier ones stay out.  Why is that hard to understand?  This tpye of fix has always been called "racially motivated" by its detractors.  Why?  I WELCOME diversity.  I WELCOME immigrants. It IS what America was founded on.  But with the world the way it is today, and the ethnic communities are slowly becoming more isolatoinistic, its time we do something.  
Brian M.

[Lawdog]

myronman3,

the problem with what you are saying, lawdog, is that this is a very liberal state. IF they would have unarmed him before letting him leave, the law would have had their ass.

As a land owner if you arrest a person for "trespass" you have the right to disarm them.  You can always withdraw the charges later BUT no way would I ever just let a trespasser leave my property un-escorted and carrying a loaded weapon.  Also got to http://www.startribune.com/style/news/newsgraphics/files/shooting1123.pdf to view the police report on the shooting.

The following is a copy of Lauren Hesebeck, who survived the shooting, statement.

Survivor Of Hunting Rampage Denies Shooting First
2001 Deer Hunter Slaying Also Being Probed

POSTED: 12:48 pm EST November 24, 2004
UPDATED: 1:25 pm EST November 24, 2004

HAYWARD, Wis. -- A survivor of Sunday's Wisconsin hunter shootings said the suspect was the first one to fire.

Lauren Hesebeck told investigators that suspect Chai Vang turned around after a verbal exchange with a hunting group and began shooting his rifle.

Vang is suspected of killing six deer hunters in the Wisconsin woods over the weekend.

Chai Vang is accused of killing six deer hunters and wounding two more in a dispute over a hunting platform on private property during the opening weekend of deer season.

Vang claimed he started shooting only after one of the hunters shot at him and missed. Hesebeck said his companion Terry Willers returned fire after Vang shot but missed. His version also makes no mention of the racial slurs Vang claims the group used.

Both accounts agree that Vang shot at the others as more people from the deer camp arrived at the scene.

Hesebeck was released Tuesday from a hospital after treatment for a shoulder wound.

Military records obtained by The Associated Press show that Vang, a Hmong immigrant, was a member of the California National Guard 1989 to 1995, earning a qualification as a sharpshooter.

He is being held on $2.5 million bond in the shootings.

Terry Willers, the only survivor who remains hospitalized following the fatal deer camp shooting, is improving.

Saint Joseph Hospital has upgraded Willers' condition from fair to good.

Authorities Also Look At 2001 Hunter Slaying

Clark County, Wisconsin's sheriff said his detectives "jumped on it right away" when trying to determine any possible link between the fatal Sawyer County, Wis., shootings and the 2001 death of a hunter near Neillsville, Wis.

Sheriff Louis Rosandich said the homicide of Jim Southworth in November of 2001 has not been forgotten by area citizens or anyone else. Southworth was hunting alone on family land when he was shot twice in the back.

Witnesses reported a late 1980s-model Nisson or Chevrolet truck near the scene of the shooting. Three occupants in the truck were described as Asian. The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reports that Vang owned a 1987 Nissan pickup.

Authorities have said Vang was hunting with two other people on Sunday before he wandered onto private property. The other two people have not been found.

Something is fishy here nad it isn’t dead fish.  Lawdog
 

[sgtt]

I wonder how one would go about unarming a person bent on shooting you?

[mikemayberry]

What are you guys saying when you mean disarm them?

Are you suggesting they be told to unload their gun and leave the property or are you saying take their gun?

Seems the latter would cause a ruckus while the former might only cause a ruckus.

Please explain how you envision this "disarming" playing out .

Thanks!

Mike

[bigbore442001]

I tend to agree. Those laws most likely were made in the days when everyone played by the rules. I think that with what happens today,that may guarantee a confrontation.

[S.B.]

I wonder how one would go about unarming a person bent on shooting you?

Yea, or get him to follow hunting regulations or laws. In my opinion, he's got to be send back where he came from. If they or any other ethnic group can't conform to our social rules and laws, they have to go.

[Lawdog]

Well it’s started!!

Check this out;
http://www.madison.com/tct/opinion/index.php?ntid=19231&ntpid=0

More fuel for the Anti-Gun nuts.  Lawdog
 :evil:

[bigbore442001]

Typical liberal reaction. Liberals such as the editors of that piece do not think, they "feel". They do not look at the situation in a logical manner, only what their emotions motivate them to do.

I could read through that piece with those holes. They don't want to come out and sound insensitive to ethnic minorities and say that there is a suscinct problem with the Hmong assimilating in our society and conforming to the accepted rules of conduct.

They want to imply that the mere presence of this type of firearm caused all this carnage. I say all the party should have been armed. I know the outcome would have been different.

[stuffit]

I have been watching the fallout from this play out without comment so far. What I see here is culture clash; no if's, and's, or but's. The Laotian perpetrator of this, though he was educated in Minneapolis public schools from age 11, maintained his "immigrant" status there by choice of association. Along with this, though I'm sure he was exposed to American hunting ethics, he also chose not to incorporate them into his own forays in search of game. On the other side, those Wisconsin folks had absolutely no inkling of that culture and what his response would be when confronted; no inkling that he would behave as if he were fighting the Viet Cong. If they had, I'm sure they'd have been better prepared for his totally inappropriate response. To my notion, the blame for this lies almost totally with the Laotian immigrant (Hmong community). Given safe haven in this country and many unearned (some would say undeserved) privileges and benefits including education in the English language, he (and many others of similar origins) chose not to accept our values and standards of behaviour along with sanctuary and citizenship. If there is further blame it is with the government establishment that essentially forces this on the rest of the country, and the PC behaviour practices that would prevent anyone from speaking to the total failure of the lack of incentive and motivational factors for assimilation. In fact quite the opposite is true. And those hunters down in Wisconsin didn't even enter into the equation of this governmental mismanagement and nonsense.

Now lest you think I'm totally "delilverance" derived, I assure you, I'm not. I was a general medical officer in the USAF for many years (during the Viet Nam War) and interacted with folks of all sorts sucessfully, and usually amiably. The armed services then (and I suspect now) had criteria and rules based on classic American standards of behaviour, with the assumption that we were all the same and the same was expected of us all. It is a shame that our civilian government hasn't done the same.

There can be no justice, as such, in dealing with the fall out from this disgusting and murderous behaviour. If I were part of one of the families, I would want revenge pure and simple. It is highly doubtful that any real lessons will be learned from this or that our legal system has the capability of even making it appear that justice has been served. The best possible outcome, again, to my notion, is that this blight on the countryside makes a fatal escape attempt.

Again, his race and position in society are immaterial. Caucasian, AmerIndian, Hispanic, folks of African ancestry and Orientals of all sorts all contribute to our great country, but it is a great country because of shared values and standards of behaviour. This tragedy serves only too well to show what results when that sharing is neglected.
Best Regards,
stuffit

[williamlayton]

What charges have been brought?
Blessings

[Scarlet Pumpernickel]

Hey Guys, there is a post down in Legal that says that this has happened before.  Posibly the same dudes.  Back in 2001.  Check it out.

[Lawdog]

sgtt,

I wonder how one would go about unarming a person bent on shooting you?

Mike,

Please explain how you envision this "disarming" playing out .

It's really not that hard to figure out how to go about disarming a trespasser.  You don't do it alone and you keep them covered until you have their weapons.  In California the California Penal Code says;

California Penal Code
Revised 2003 Edition

Arrest

837.  A private person may arrest another:
   1. For a public offense committed or attempted in his presence.
   2. When the person arrested has committed a felony, although not in his presence.
   3. When a felony has been in fact committed, and he has reasonable cause for believing the person arrested to have committed it.

838.  A magistrate may orally order a peace officer or private person to arrest any one committing or attempting to commit a public offense in the presence of such magistrate.

839.  Any person making an arrest may orally summon as many persons as he deems necessary to aid him therein.

840.  An arrest for the commission of a felony may be made on any day and at any time of the day or night.  An arrest for the commission of a misdemeanor or an infraction cannot be made between the hours of 10 o'clock p.m. of any day and 6 o'clock a.m. of the succeeding day, unless:
   (1) The arrest is made without a warrant pursuant to Section 836 or 837.
   (2) The arrest is made in a public place.
   (3) The arrest is made when the person is in custody pursuant to another lawful arrest.
   (4) The arrest is made pursuant to a warrant which, for good cause shown, directs that it may be served at any time of the day or night.

841.  The person making the arrest must inform the person to be arrested of the intention to arrest him, of the cause of the arrest, and the authority to make it, except when the person making the arrest has reasonable cause to believe that the person to be arrested is actually engaged in the commission of or an attempt to commit an offense, or the person to be arrested is pursued immediately after its commission, or after an escape.
   The person making the arrest must, on request of the person he is arresting, inform the latter of the offense for which he is being arrested.

841.5.  (a) Except as otherwise required by Chapter 10 (commencing with Section 1054) of Title 7, or by the United States Constitution or the California Constitution, no law enforcement officer or employee of a law enforcement agency shall disclose to any arrested person, or to any person who may be a defendant in a criminal action, the address or telephone number of any person who is a victim or witness in the alleged offense.
   (b) Nothing in this section shall impair or interfere with the right of a defendant to obtain information necessary for the preparation of his or her defense through the discovery process.
   (c) Nothing in this section shall impair or interfere with the right of an attorney to obtain the address or telephone number of any person who is a victim of, or a witness to, an alleged offense where a client of that attorney has been arrested for, or may be a defendant in, a criminal action related to the alleged offense.
   (d) Nothing in this section shall preclude a law enforcement agency from releasing the entire contents of an accident report as required by Section 20012 of the Vehicle Code.

842.  An arrest by a peace officer acting under a warrant is lawful even though the officer does not have the warrant in his possession at the time of the arrest, but if the person arrested so requests it, the warrant shall be shown to him as soon as practicable.

843.  When the arrest is being made by an officer under the authority of a warrant, after information of the intention to make the arrest, if the person to be arrested either flees or forcibly resists, the officer may use all necessary means to effect the arrest.

844.  To make an arrest, a private person, if the offense is a felony, and in all cases a peace officer, may break open the door or window of the house in which the person to be arrested is, or in which they have reasonable grounds for believing the person to be, after having demanded admittance and explained the purpose for which admittance is desired.

845.  Any person who has lawfully entered a house for the purpose of making an arrest, may break open the door or window thereof if detained therein, when necessary for the purpose of liberating himself, and an officer may do the same, when necessary for the purpose of liberating a person who, acting in his aid, lawfully entered for the purpose of making an arrest, and is detained therein.

846.  Any person making an arrest may take from the person arrested all offensive weapons which he may have about his person, and must deliver them to the magistrate before whom he is taken.

847.  (a) A private person who has arrested another for the commission of a public offense must, without unnecessary delay, take the person arrested before a magistrate, or deliver him or her to a peace officer.
   (b) There shall be no civil liability on the part of, and no cause of action shall arise against, any peace officer or federal criminal investigator or law enforcement officer described in subdivision (a) or (d) of Section 830.8, acting within the scope of his or her authority, for false arrest or false imprisonment arising out of any arrest under any of the following circumstances:
   (1) The arrest was lawful, or the peace officer, at the time of the arrest, had reasonable cause to believe the arrest was lawful.
   (2) The arrest was made pursuant to a charge made, upon reasonable cause, of the commission of a felony by the person to be arrested.
   (3) The arrest was made pursuant to the requirements of Section 142, 837, 838, or 839.

Trespass

555.  It is unlawful to enter or remain upon any posted property without the written permission of the owner, tenant, or occupant in legal possession or control thereof.  Every person who enters or remains upon posted property without such written permission (is guilty of a separate offense for each day during any portion of which he enters or remains upon such posted property).

Land owners, tenants and caretakers in California should be aware of these sections of the California Penal Code.  Land owners, tenants and caretakers living in other states need to be aware of the laws/codes in their states governing these ares.  As long as you have your property posted correctly in accordance with the law and you follow the laws governing arrest, anyone caught/arrested for trespassing on your property doesn't have grounds for unlawful(false) arrest lawsuit.  I have had only one lawsuit filed against me out of the 9 people I arrested for trespass and I won the counter suit for costs, expenses and fees.  The only reason I arrested those people were because I had caught them on my property before.  The marijuana growers I leave to the C.A.M.P. officers.  Lawdog
 

[williamlayton]

1- Was this leased land or was it owned by the hunters.
2- Have any charges been filed of date. No information, that I have seen,  has been posted.
Blessings

[bigbore442001]

The laws may support you in some measure but what good will that do if you get shot. This nut didn't care about any laws concerning land ownership. In addition, it sounds like he believed in dead men tell no tales.