Author Topic: 5 Killed, 3 Hurt in Wis. Hunting Dispute  (Read 1956 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Dali Llama

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2452
5 Killed, 3 Hurt in Wis. Hunting Dispute
« on: November 22, 2004, 01:12:22 AM »
5 Killed, 3 Hurt in Wis. Hunting Dispute

By JOSHUA FREED
Associated Press Writer

   
BIRCHWOOD, Wis. (AP) -- A deer hunter shot and killed five people and injured three others in northwestern Wisconsin following a dispute about a tree stand during the hunt's opening weekend, authorities said.

The 36-year-old alleged gunman, who lives in the Minneapolis area, was arrested Sunday afternoon, Sawyer County sheriff's officials said. Jake Hodgkinson, a deputy at the county jail, identified the suspect as Chai Vang but would give no additional details.

The incident began when two hunters were returning to their rural cabin on private land in Sawyer County when they saw the suspect in one of their hunting platforms in a tree, County Chief Deputy Tim Zeigle said. A confrontation and shooting followed.

It's not known who shot first, Zeigle said.
 
Both hunters were wounded and one of them radioed to the cabin a quarter mile away. Other hunters responded and were shot. About 20 shots were fired, but it's unclear who shot them, he said.

The dead included four males - including a teenage boy - and a woman, Zeigle said. A father and son were among them, he said. Some of the victims were shot more than once.

All five, from the Rice Lake area, were dead when officers arrived to the area in southwestern Sawyer County, he said. Authorities found two bodies near each other and the others were scattered over 100 yards.

"It's absolutely nuts. Why? Over sitting in a tree stand?" asked Zeigle.

Zeigle said the suspect was "chasing after them and killing them," with a SKS 7.62 caliber semiautomatic, a common hunting weapon. Wisconsin's statewide deer gun hunting season started Saturday and lasts for nine days.

Two young people who stayed in the cabin emerged safely after the shootings.

The suspect, who did not have a compass, got lost in the woods and two hunters, not knowing about the shootings, helped him find his way out, Zeigle said. When he emerged, a Department of Natural Resources officer recognized the deer license on his back, given to police by a victim, Zeigle said.

The man was out of bullets and was arrested, Zeigle said.

One of the injured hunters was in critical condition at St. Joseph's Hospital. Another was listed in serious condition and the third was in fair condition, both at Lakeview Medical Center.

Hunter Bill Wagner, 72, of Oshkosh, was about two miles away near Deer Lake with a party of about 20 other hunters. After they got word of the shooting, he and others went to round up the rest of the party. He said they heard sirens, planes and helicopters and noticed the surrounding roads blocked off.

"When you're hunting you don't expect somebody to try to shoot you and murder you," he said. "You have no idea who is coming up to you."

It took about three hours to round up the other hunters, who were up to four miles apart, Wagner said. "We're all old, dyed-in-wool hunters," he said. "We wouldn't go home because of this but we will keep it in our minds. We're not forgetting it."
AKA "Blademan52" from Marlin Talk

Offline jh45gun

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4992
5 Killed, 3 Hurt in Wis. Hunting Dispute
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2004, 09:21:49 AM »
More news update on  this. The SKS had a twenty round clip so that will add fuel to the fire. The WI AG office will prosecute the case from what the sheriff said on a news conference today. FBI and Other feds are investigating the case also. The suspect got out of the tree stand when confronted and was leaving the area. Walked about 40 yards stopped took off the scope from the SKS and opened fire. Shots were not all at once there was a lull between fireing. The anti gun WI Gov spoke at the news conference also and while he did not say anything about the rifle used the local news station cut the interview short while he was speaking so he may have. The only reason I can think that the suspect took the scope off was for a faster sight picture. This to me should give the prosecution more than enough evidence of premeditation as he planned to kill these folks after the arguement.
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline jh45gun

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4992
5 Killed, 3 Hurt in Wis. Hunting Dispute
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2004, 09:25:58 AM »
Post I posted last night after I heard the news relating to this story.

Just heard this on the news. A damn Mung was hunting in WI in Sawyer county which is a county over from where I hunt. He got in a altercation with a group of hunters because he was tresspassing. He opened up on the hunters and killed FIVE and wounded THREE others. If you guessed he was using a SKS you are right. The anti's and the folks that support the semi auto ban are going to have a field day with this one. They caught the guy after a extensive but short 4 to 5 hour manhunt. They should have hanged him from the nearest tree instead of taking him to jail!
_________________
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline powderman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32823
  • Gender: Male
5 Killed, 3 Hurt in Wis. Hunting Dispute
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2004, 12:17:32 PM »
Here in KY deer can be hunted with an sks, a lot of folks do, but it must have a clip of 10 rds or less. POWDERMAN. POWDERMAN.  :(  :(  :(  :(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Dali Llama

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2452
5 Killed, 3 Hurt in Wis. Hunting Dispute
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2004, 12:22:08 PM »
Quote from: jh45gun
Post I posted last night after I heard the news relating to this story.

Just heard this on the news. A damn Mung was hunting in WI in Sawyer county which is a county over from where I hunt. He got in a altercation with a group of hunters because he was tresspassing. He opened up on the hunters and killed FIVE and wounded THREE others. If you guessed he was using a SKS you are right. The anti's and the folks that support the semi auto ban are going to have a field day with this one. They caught the guy after a extensive but short 4 to 5 hour manhunt. They should have hanged him from the nearest tree instead of taking him to jail!
_________________
Dali Llama say he just glad that Honorable jh45gun not be among victims.  Dali say he immediately think of jh45gun when he first hear story on news.
AKA "Blademan52" from Marlin Talk

Offline jh45gun

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4992
5 Killed, 3 Hurt in Wis. Hunting Dispute
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2004, 01:09:49 PM »
Quote from: Dali Llama
Quote from: jh45gun
Post I posted last night after I heard the news relating to this story.

Just heard this on the news. A damn Mung was hunting in WI in Sawyer county which is a county over from where I hunt. He got in a altercation with a group of hunters because he was tresspassing. He opened up on the hunters and killed FIVE and wounded THREE others. If you guessed he was using a SKS you are right. The anti's and the folks that support the semi auto ban are going to have a field day with this one. They caught the guy after a extensive but short 4 to 5 hour manhunt. They should have hanged him from the nearest tree instead of taking him to jail!
_________________
Dali Llama say he just glad that Honorable jh45gun not be among victims.  Dali say he immediately think of jh45gun when he first hear story on news.


Dali Thanks for your concern!  :P
Trust me if it would have been my hunting party and if I was not one of the killed I would have shot the SOB! The bad part was that the folks who got the radio call for help must have figured it was a accident and never took any guns with them. I suppose the wounded had guns but could not get them into play or after wounded were in shock. When hunting I carry a gun with me at all times even when going to the deer to gut them out just in case they are not dead yet. Another thought is some folks just do not shoot well even though they hunt they may have shot at this guy after they got shot and just missed because of their wounds or they are not that good of  a shot to begin with.

Quote "Jim,,,, I'm wondering if he is a naturalized citizen? Maybe extension of all our Constitutional rights should be extended to citizens only, since citizens support the Constitution or a least studied it. Same with all the 'handout' programs, too. Ashame-- but this is what happens when our leaders allow our Country to be a flop house for every displaced 3rd worlder. I assume this guy went through a Wisconsin hunter safety program to get his first hunting license???


....................TM7 Quote

Since this was a MN resident not sure if they have to take a WI hunters safety course or not. Even if he did I doubt that it would have made a difference. The guy must be nuts to begin with. Since he took his scope off of his rifle he must have to decided to kill them all and took off the scope for a faster scope free sight picture. It said on the news he came from Laos and now was a naturalized citizen. Also had 6 kids I wonder what they think of dad now?
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline Ron T.

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 646
5 Killed, 3 Hurt in Wis. Hunting Dispute
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2004, 10:19:50 PM »
All of us are pretty darned "grim-mouthed" about this.

In our sorrow and the heat-of-passion to see "justice" done, I agree with jh45gun's idea of using a nearby "tree", but... we are a Nation of Laws and those laws extend to everyone within our borders... which is, in some cases like this, VERY unfortunate!

For the victims and their familys' sake... I sincerely hope justice is swift & sure!


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."  - Thomas Jefferson

Offline jh45gun

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4992
5 Killed, 3 Hurt in Wis. Hunting Dispute
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2004, 02:04:22 AM »
The one guy who got shot thrrough the abdomen died last night so now the count is 6 dead 2 wounded.
 :x
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline RaySendero

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1064
  • Gender: Male
5 Killed, 3 Hurt in Wis. Hunting Dispute
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2004, 06:04:59 AM »
:(  Really saddens me to hear of this.

Hope we'll keep in mind the tragic loss these families are going through.

Also hope we'll stay focused on the problem - "Criminal trespassing massacres other hunters" rather than blame gun!
    Ray

Offline Mauser

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 253
5 Killed, 3 Hurt in Wis. Hunting Dispute
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2004, 07:43:27 AM »
I have some friends who hunt the county and I was immediately worried about them.  

The media are already talking about the gun used.  The guy could have used any number of repeating rifles that hold more than 4 or 5 rounds to commit this crime.  Doesn't a 30/30 lever hold around 6-8 rounds?

I'm surprised nobody returned fire.  Maybe they were too shocked.

Offline brown-trout

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 78
lets see how this plays out.....
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2004, 09:59:08 AM »
Id like to hear both sides of this story....there might be  more to it than some crazed VC-wannnabe just opening up.
 
I do not imply he is not accountable...he is...and he should get the death penalty....and i dont mean to imply the other party is at fault....
Id just like to know what went on in that field in Wisconsin.

The shooter says he walked away and a shot struck the ground 30 yards behind him.

The victims party says he walked away , removed his scope, turned and opened up.

I bet somewhere in the middle is the truth.  Time will tell.

Brown-Trout
================================
handi synthetic/ 223 REM / BSA 6-24X 50mm A/O
handi laminated / 270 WIN / Simmons 3-9X 40mm
pardner youth 20 gauge / Mod Choke / Red Dot Scope / Lengthened Forcing Cone / Ported Barrel

Offline OrangeWing

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 69
5 Killed, 3 Hurt in Wis. Hunting Dispute
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2004, 11:07:43 AM »
Just who's word would you believe?  One of the wounded Or the shooter that shot multi times into the bodies of the 8 people which only 2 are still alive.  Not to throw in that out of the 8 shot only one had a gun.  Now let me see  the shooter was scared & his mama yelled at him when he was little.  I can not wait for the wounded to recover & hear the TRUE story about how they were hunted down & shot multi times.

Offline Nixter

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 465
  • Gender: Male
5 Killed, 3 Hurt in Wis. Hunting Dispute
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2004, 12:37:49 PM »
First a prayer for the families and friends of the victims.

Second, I know only what I've read in the paper about this incident.

I've run into a few Hmong or Laotians hunting squirrels in the woods here in SE. Wisconsin. One and only one has spoken enough English for a "conversation". Get any? Nice day, etc. Always polite and considerate. Perhaps due to a language barrier a minor incident became a deadly serious one.

Not defending or demonizing anyone involved. Just offering my limited views.

Again a prayer for the families of the victims.

nixter

Offline jh45gun

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4992
5 Killed, 3 Hurt in Wis. Hunting Dispute
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2004, 03:47:28 PM »
Of course the guy is going to say he was shot at first but if that was the case than how would he have time to take the scope off his rifle and then shoot????? :roll: Nope even if racial slurs were exchanged no excuse to kill 6 people! Also I heard only one guy had a rifle the origional guy who saw him in the tree stand,  the others came from the cabin unarmed. If that is the case then he shot down a bunch of unarmed hunters and is probably the reason that they could not shoot back. I guess we will not know the rest of the story until the crime scene investigators make their report known and we probably will not hear them results until the trial. OF course even the news we get always is not accurate so I guess we may have to wait to get the story after it is figured out.
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline brown-trout

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 78
....Orange Wing....
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2004, 04:13:41 PM »
Perhaps you didnt  understand the intent of my post....

Let me clarify.....I merely stated id like to know all of what went on in that field....too many years of working with the public at their worst tells me we may not be catching the whole story.

I would never attempt in any way to justify his actions (i said that in my first post).

I do not for a second find the victims culpable ( I also stated that in my first post).

I feel nothing but sadness and sympathy for the victims and their families.
I wont stand for my post to be twisted into something its not.

Brown-Trout
================================
handi synthetic/ 223 REM / BSA 6-24X 50mm A/O
handi laminated / 270 WIN / Simmons 3-9X 40mm
pardner youth 20 gauge / Mod Choke / Red Dot Scope / Lengthened Forcing Cone / Ported Barrel

Offline whodowl

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 69
5 Killed, 3 Hurt in Wis. Hunting Dispute
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2004, 04:35:52 AM »
Everyone has made some good observations here, my 2 bits:
1)  I know who's land I will hunt before I enter, this guy didn't
2)  He knew it was not his stand
3)  6 dead, only 1 was armed.  No way that is self defense.  period
4)  Time to remove his scope....and why....very good point

A very sad day for good hunters who will get a bad rap.

Offline jh45gun

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4992
Re: ....Orange Wing....
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2004, 06:00:23 AM »
Quote from: brown-trout
Perhaps you didnt  understand the intent of my post....

Let me clarify.....I merely stated id like to know all of what went on in that field....too many years of working with the public at their worst tells me we may not be catching the whole story.

I would never attempt in any way to justify his actions (i said that in my first post).

I do not for a second find the victims culpable ( I also stated that in my first post).

I feel nothing but sadness and sympathy for the victims and their families.
I wont stand for my post to be twisted into something its not.

Brown-Trout


Relax no one here is trying to twist your post or your words at least not intentionally I know I was'nt. Jim
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline brown-trout

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 78
thanks jh45gun
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2004, 11:48:31 AM »
I appreciate that.
my 2nd post was intended for orange wing, as noted on the subject line(it is small).
i have read alot of your posts before, all made good sense to me :-)
have a great day

brown trout
================================
handi synthetic/ 223 REM / BSA 6-24X 50mm A/O
handi laminated / 270 WIN / Simmons 3-9X 40mm
pardner youth 20 gauge / Mod Choke / Red Dot Scope / Lengthened Forcing Cone / Ported Barrel

Offline Dali Llama

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2452
Re: thanks jh45gun
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2004, 01:17:44 PM »
Quote from: brown-trout

my 2nd post was intended for orange wing, as noted on the subject line(it is small).
Dali Llama suggest use of "reply with quote" feature. :-)  :-)
AKA "Blademan52" from Marlin Talk

Offline OrangeWing

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 69
5 Killed, 3 Hurt in Wis. Hunting Dispute
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2004, 02:40:00 PM »
Up under "handgun Hunting" they have one of the people that was shot statement.  Also, there was a shooting of a hunter in 2001 in the same area.  He was shot 2 times in the back.  This guy fits the discription even the truck they guy was driving in 2001.  I am telling you this guy was a human hunter.

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43299
  • Gender: Male
5 Killed, 3 Hurt in Wis. Hunting Dispute
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2004, 03:17:45 PM »
This is about as much of both sides we're gonna see til it goes to court...
I edited only the profanity due to GBO forum policy. This is the Probable Cause Hearing statement in text form. The actual document as filed can be see here:
http://www.startribune.com/style/news/newsgraphics/files/shooting1123.pdf

Quote
Sawyer County Probable Cause
Statement in case of Chai Soua
Vang, released Nov. 23, 2004


Editors note: The below information contains
graphic information and content some people
may consider offensive.
Probable Cause Statement
Chai Soua Vang 09-24-1968
810 4th Street
St. Paul, MN 55106

On November 21, 2004 at 12:30 p.m. Sawyer
County SheriffÂ’s investigator Gary Gillis was contacted by chief deputy Tim Zeigle who advised that there
has been a shooting with multiple victims in southern Sawyer County. Chief Deputy Tim Zeigle requested
that investigator Gary Gillis respond to the scene.
November 21, 2004 was the second day of the 2004 Wisconsin rifle deer season.
Investigator Gary Gillis was advised that the incident occurred in the woods behind a cabin at 394N Deer
Lake Road in the town of Meteor in Sawyer County, Wisconsin. Investigator Gary Gillis learned that there
had been some sort of dispute that developed between a hunting party at 394N Deer Lake Road and at
the time an unknown male subject of Asian descent. Reports indicated that the Asian male wandered onto
property owned by Terry Willers and Robert Crotteau. The Asian male was located sitting in a tree stand
on the private property. The asian male was confronted by Terry Willers and told by Willers to leave the
property. Willers used a walkie talkie to advise the rest of the hunting party that were located at the cabin
that Willers told the subject to leave and Willers was going to wait and make sure the subject left.
Lauren Hesebeck was able to provide the following information. At this point Robert Crotteau, Joe
Crotteau, Lauren Hesebeck, Dennis Drew and Mark Roidt left the cabin and went to Willers location.
During another verbal exchange with the Asian male one of the members of the property ownerÂ’s party
wrote the back tag number of the Asian male subject in the dirt on a “mule” which is a 2 side-by-side seat
ATV. The back tag number that was written down was 0685505. The Asian male was also advised that law
enforcement was going to be called.
Records check of the back tag indicated that the tag was registered to Chai Vang 09-24-1968, 810 4th ST
E, St Paul MN 55106. 5’04” 145 lbs black hair and brown eyes. Vang was later arrested and was in
possession of this back tag. The Asian male from this point will be referred to as Vang.
Vang started to walk a way and got approximately 40 yards a way. Then Vang appeared to remove the
scope from his rifle and turned around and started shooting. Vang shot several times and hit Willers. Prior
to being shot Willers returned fire but did not hit Vang. Vang shot several more shots and struck Dennis
Drew and Mark Roidt. Lauren Hesebeck attempted to hide behind the “mule” but Vang moved around the
“mule” and shot Lauren Hesebeck in the shoulder. Robert and Joe Crotteau ran away from the scene.
Vang then pursued Robert and Joe. Both Robert and Joe were located away from the initial scene and had
been shot to death.
While Vang was pursuing Robert and Joe, Lauren Hesebeck was able to call on the walkie talkie to the
cabin and advised that he had been shot and needed help. Help arrived and removed Terry Willers from
the scene. A short time later Lauren heard another ATV approaching and then heard more gun shots.
Lauren advised that Vang then appeared again where the shooting originally started. Lauren Hesebeck
heard Vang say something like “one of you Fxxxxx are still alive”. Lauren Hesebeck indicated that he
returned fire at that time but is unsure how many times.
Robert Crotteau, Joey Crotteau, Mark Roidt, Jessica Willers and Allan Laski were all deceased at the scene
from what appeared to be gun shot wounds.
Terry Willers was shot in the neck and was taken to the hospital. Dennis Drew was shot in the abdomen
and was transported to the hospital. Lauren Hesebeck was shot in the shoulder and was transported to the
hospital.
On November 22, 2004 investigator Gary Gillis was advised that Dennis Drew had also died from the
wound he received.
Vang was later apprehended by Wisconsin DNR Warden Jeremy Peery. Vang was still in possession of his
hunting gear, including back tag and also his rifle. The rifle was a Saiga SKS 7.62x39 caliber, serial
number HO-3104079. Vang did not have any ammunition with him when taken into custody. Vang made
no comments to Warden Peery.
On November 22, 2004 at approximately 10:15 a.m. investigator Gary Gillis and FBI agent Ken
Mammoser interviewed Chai Vang at the Sawyer County Jail. Vang was read his Miranda rlghts which
Vang indicated that he understood and also signed the form indicating that he understood them.
Investigator Gary Gillis also asked Vang if Vang could read and write the English language. Vang stated
that he could. Investigator Gary Gillis asked Vang to read out loud the waiver of Miranda rights. Vang read
the waiver out loud to investigator Gary Gillis and S/A Mammoser. Vang stated that he understood the
waiver but at this time wished to talk to a lawyer first before making a statement. At this point the
interview ended.
At approximately 10:30 a.m. Investigator Gary Gillis was contacted by the on duty jailer. Investigator
Gary Gillis was advised that while jailer Frank Metzinger was going to move Vang back to VangÂ’s cell,
Vang advised Metzinger that Vang was willing to talk to investigators. Investigator Gary Gillis advised Lt.
Kurt Barthel of this and advised that the request by Vang needed to be in writing. Lt. Barthel then met with
Vang and gave Vang a Sawyer County Jail inmate request form. Vang wrote out and signed the form.
Vang wrote “I would like to talk to the investigator now. I don’t want a lawyer at this time.” Investigator
Gary Gillis and S/A Mammoser again met with Vang in the interview room at the Sawyer County Jail.
Investigator Gary Gillis showed Vang the inmate request form and asked Vang if Vang had filled it out and
signed it. Vang indicated that he did. Investigator Gary Gillis advised Vang that Investigator Gary Gillis
needed to read Vang his Miranda rights again. Vang stated that he understood. Investigator Gary Gillis
read the Miranda rights and Vang stated that he understood his rights. Investigator Gary Gillis then
advised Vang to read the waiver of rights which Vang did and signed the waiver of rights at 10:35 a.m.
indicating that Vang wanted to talk with investigator Gary Gillis and S/A Mammoser.
Vang stated that Vang had been hunting on public land and got lost. Vang stated that Vang located a tree
stand next to a swamp. Nobody was in the stand so Vang climbed into it. Vang stated that after
approximately 15 minutes another hunter approached Vang. the hunter asked Vang “Why are you in the
stand, you’re on private property,” Vang stated that Vang told the subject that Vang did not know that the
land was private and that Vang did not see any “no trespassing” signs. Vang stated that Vang climbed
down and started to walk away. Vang stated that while walking away Vang heard the other male subject
call on a walkie talkie. Vang did not hear what was said.
Vang stated that a few moments later 2 ATVÂ’s approached his location with 5 or 6 guys on them. Vana
stated that Vang was confronted by this group also. Vang stated that one of the subjects that Vang
believed to be the owner of the property stated “why were you in my son’s stand”? Vang stated that Vang
told the man that Vang did not know it was private land. And that Vang did not see any signs indicating
that land was private. Vang stated that this man stated “you just trespassed through 400 acres of private
land.” Vang stated that the others in the group surrounded Vang. Vang stated that the man that Vang
thought to be the owner then started calling Vang names like “gook, chink, fxxxxxx asian.” Vang stated
that at this point the only one that Vang saw with a gun was the first subject that kicked Vang out of the
stand.
Vang stated that Vang was told to get off the fxxxing property and never come back. Vang stated that at
one point they wrote down his license number and stated that they were going to call the law
enforcement. Vang stated that some of the others in the group started calling Vang names (gook, chink)
and were also swearing at Vang, Vang stated that Vang started walking a way and got approximately 20
yards a way and turned around and observed the man that had the rifle walking towards the rest of the
group, Vang also observed the man take the rifle off his shoulder and took the rifle into his hands. Vang
stated that Vang stated that Vang was approximately 100 feet away and looked back again, Vang stated
that Vang observed the subject with the rifle point the rifle at Vang. Vang stated that Vang immediately
dropped to a crouch position and the subject shot at Vang and the bullet hit the ground 30 to 40 feet
behind Vang.
Vang stated that Vang removed the scope from his rifle. Vang stated that Vang shot 2 times at the man
with the rifle and the man dropped to the ground. Vang saw all the others run towards the ATVÂ’s and Vang
continued to shoot. Vang stated that 2 or 3 more men fell to the ground. Vang stated that a couple of the
men started to run, Vang stated that Vang chased after one of the men that ran towards the cabin. Vang
stated that the man was yelling “help me, help me”. Vang stated that Vang shot at the man several time
while chasing him. Vang stated that Vang stated that he got to about 15 to 20 feet of the man who was still
running away and Vang shot him in the back. Vang stated that the man dropped to the ground. Vang
stated that the man did not have a gun. Vang stated that Vang walked up to the man and heard the man
groan and then Vang walked a way. (This is believed to be the body of Joey Crotteau.)
Vang stated that at this point Vang heard one of the other men call on the walkie talkie and state “we’ve
been shot and need help.” Vang stated that Vang observed 3 other subjects coming on an ATV. Vang
stated that Vang then turned his reversible coat from orange to camo. Vang stated that he also reloaded
his magazine with 5 or 6 bullets. Vang stated that Vang did not shoot at these men because they had guns
with them. Vang stated that the men were in by the other injured men for less then a minute and then left.
Vang did not know if the men took any of the wounded out with them.
Vang stated that Vang then observed another ATV coming with 2 more people on it. Vang stated that the
driver of this ATV had a gun on his shoulder. Vang stated that Vang began to run and Vang stated that
they saw Vang running and were going too fast to stop and drove past Vang. Vang stated that they
stopped approximately 10 to 15 feet past Vang at a 45 degree angle. Vang stated that the man removed
the gun from his shoulder with one hand while the other hand was on the handle bars of the ATV. Vang
stated that Vang shot 3 or 4 times and both people fell off the ATV and onto the ground. (these are the
bodies of Allan Laski and Jessica Willers.)
Vang stated that Vang then started to run back towards where the original shooting started. Vang stated
that Vang looked up the trail and saw that one of the men were standing. Vang stated that Vang yelled
“you’re not dead yet?” Vang stated that Vang shot one more time in the direction of this man but doesn’t
know if he hit the man or not. Vang stated that he continued to run away and did not return. Vang stated
that at one point while running Vang decided that he did not want to shoot anybody else, so Vang threw
his remaining ammunition into a swamp.
Yang stated that approximately an hour after throwing the ammunition away Vang heard the airplane
overhead. Vang stated that Vang was thinking that they were looking for Vang so Vang was thinking about
turning himself in. Vang stated that Vang came upon a hunter with an ATV and asked the hunter for a ride
to the road. Vang stated that the hunter drove Vang to the hunterÂ’s cabin. Vang stated that the wardens
were at the cabin waiting for him.
At the scene there was only 1 rifle located. That rifle was located near the body of Mark Roidt.
All of the victims were dressed in blaze orange clothing.
Preliminary autopsy results conducted by the forensic pathology team under the direction of Dr. McGee of
the Ramsey County, Minnesota Medical ExaminerÂ’s office are as follows:
Robert Crotteau -gun shot
Joey Crotteau -gun shot
Al Laski -gun shot
Jessica Willers -gun shot
Mark Roidt -gun shot
Dennis Drew -autopsy pending
Investigator Gary Gillis
November 23, 2004
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline Leverdude

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 601
5 Killed, 3 Hurt in Wis. Hunting Dispute
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2004, 03:17:54 PM »
This whole thing really sucks. I hope thats not too strong language to use here but to be truly honest about how this incident makes me feel I would have to use much stronger profanities.

People say we'll never know what happened then & there & are right I suppose.  Thing is I cant accept his response of shooting, what? 8 people?
This guys a whacko for sure & oughtta just be turned over to the family & friends of the hunters & forgotten about. I would suppose they best could decide what a just punishment would be.


I have hunted with some hotheads before who I could picture getting a bit out of line if they cought a trespasser & probably more so if the guy was a foriegner and i'm not saying I think anyone I know would shoot at a guy they cought in their stand but I will say that if they did shoot at a trespasser at, what did they say? 30 yards? I think that they would hit him.
He didnt get shot at.  Maybe some hothead shot in the air (which is still wrong) but no one shot at him, cuz if they did he'd be dead.

This dont bode well for gun owners as a whole either. Their calling a gun an assault weapon & a common hunting gun at the same time.  :?

Just got home from NY State hunting & heard about it Sunday in camp on the radio. I thought they said the guy was a Monk. Confused me so much I had to go into town & call the wife.

All I can think is these people need our prayers.
Freedoms not free!
Support your NRA!

Offline OrangeWing

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 69
5 Killed, 3 Hurt in Wis. Hunting Dispute
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2004, 03:26:07 PM »
Go read "Handgun Hunter"  posts about this.  They have a statement from one of the wounded.  Now the police think this same shooter might have been the one that killed another hunter in 2001.  That hunter was shot 2 times in the back on his own property.  The guy that shot 8 fits the discription to a tee.  He also has a truck that is the same make & color.  The 2001 shooting was not too far from where this shooting happened.  I really think this guy was hunting hunters.  The statement from the wounded will make the hair stand up on the back of your neck.

Offline Leverdude

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 601
5 Killed, 3 Hurt in Wis. Hunting Dispute
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2004, 03:28:35 PM »
quickdtoo,

Your post poped up while I was writing mine, this is unreal.  :x
Freedoms not free!
Support your NRA!

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43299
  • Gender: Male
5 Killed, 3 Hurt in Wis. Hunting Dispute
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2004, 03:40:47 PM »
I noticed that, same time of post! :-D
 
Since we're sharing post info on this subject, there's another in the NEF Centerfire forum.  I didn't mean to double up on Lawdog's post, but I posted the link to the Probable Cause Hearing in the NEF forum yesterday, but lots of folks probably don't read it cuz the .pdf file takes a while to load on a dialup connection.  :cry:

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=47067
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline RaySendero

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1064
  • Gender: Male
5 Killed, 3 Hurt in Wis. Hunting Dispute
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2004, 04:07:27 PM »
quickdtoo,

Thanks for good info.
    Ray

Offline Dali Llama

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2452
5 Killed, 3 Hurt in Wis. Hunting Dispute
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2004, 04:36:17 AM »
Quote from: Leverdude
This whole thing really sucks. I hope thats not too strong language to use here
:eek:  :eek:  :eek:
AKA "Blademan52" from Marlin Talk

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43299
  • Gender: Male
5 Killed, 3 Hurt in Wis. Hunting Dispute
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2004, 07:55:05 PM »
And apparently not Vang's first time trespassing...

http://www.wqow.com/news/articles/article_2225.shtml

Quote
Chilling Thought: Hunter Confronted Suspect for Trespassing

Green Lake County
Nov 26, 2004

The suspect in Sunday's shootings in Sawyer County has been in trouble for trespassing in the past.  Two years ago Chai Vang was cited for trespassing in Green Lake County.  "It kind of runs chills through you," says Paul Gravunder.  "It's pretty scary.  I think the next -- I'd probably do things a lot different."  Gravunder was hunting two years ago when he saw two men hunting and trespassing.  He confronted them -- one of them was Vang.  Gravunder called authorities.  Vang told officers that they were hunting on public land, but that a wounded deer ran over to the private property.  Vang was cited for trespassing, but the Green Lake County Sheriff's Department says Vang never paid that fine.
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline Dali Llama

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2452
5 Killed, 3 Hurt in Wis. Hunting Dispute
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2004, 05:01:22 AM »
Quote from: quickdtoo
And apparently not Vang's first time trespassing...

http://www.wqow.com/news/articles/article_2225.shtml

Quote
Chilling Thought: Hunter Confronted Suspect for Trespassing

Green Lake County
Nov 26, 2004

The suspect in Sunday's shootings in Sawyer County has been in trouble for trespassing in the past.  Two years ago Chai Vang was cited for trespassing in Green Lake County.  "It kind of runs chills through you," says Paul Gravunder.  "It's pretty scary.  I think the next -- I'd probably do things a lot different."  Gravunder was hunting two years ago when he saw two men hunting and trespassing.  He confronted them -- one of them was Vang.  Gravunder called authorities.  Vang told officers that they were hunting on public land, but that a wounded deer ran over to the private property.  Vang was cited for trespassing, but the Green Lake County Sheriff's Department says Vang never paid that fine.
Mr. Vang apparently get around in past, comment Dali Llama, but hopefully will not in future.
AKA "Blademan52" from Marlin Talk

Offline OrangeWing

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 69
5 Killed, 3 Hurt in Wis. Hunting Dispute
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2004, 05:26:25 AM »
The more information that is being found out about this guy the worse it is for him.  Talk about a scum bag.  "Me no understand, me no understand", right.  He knew what he was doing.  He thought he had killed all 8 people with no tracing things back to him.  IF the first guys that got shot didn't have walkie talkies or IF no one had lived he would have just went back home with the only clues some empty shell casing's & spent bullets.  I just wonder how many other people or hunters he has killed before????