357 from hell

[Robert]

I tried a load today in my 357 Maximum that was adopted from Paco Kelly data. I shot 280 gr Lyman Round-nose cast w/ gas-checks, Lee Alox Tumble lube, then topped off with my own mixture of Rooster Red, beeswax and olive oil (extra virgin) Paco uses this for his 35 Whelen for plinking....8.0 grs of Bullseye. These bullets are so long that I use normal 357 brass and then seat the bullet to normal O.A.L. for 357 Max. They look like an Aquila SST on Steroids. I checked other data for 357 calibers and 8.0 grs didn't seem too far out of line in a Contender. Went through about 12" of pressure treated lumber at 40 yds and were hitting about 6 inches high...but I wasn't working on accuracy yet. Slightly sticky extraction..not bad...primers look excellent but maybe just a little on the hot side...no flattening though. Recoil was nothing. Pretty pleased with the results....going to have to do some more testing. This ought to make one hell of a backyard thumper for critters and I have no doubt that it would drop a deer real fast.

[clodbuster]

Robert   Just wondering why superfast Bullseye?  It seems like 231 or AA5 might be better suited.  Have you worked on accuracy with this bullet?  That is one heay dude for .36 cal.  My 10" Max is very fussy about bullets if I'm going for accuracy so I'm going to give those a try.  It really likes long ones.  Who says length doesn't matter.  Universal Clays gives a good plinking load but at only 8 gr (under a 200 gr hardcast) and its waaaay slower than Bullseye.  What kind of velocity are you getting?

[Lone Star]

My guess is that the pressure of that load is actually very very very high.  If you look closely, Paco uses 8 grains of Bullseye in the huge .35 Whelen Improved case, not the tiny .357 case.  Putting that much Bullseye into .357 Mag brass with the same huge bullet is really courting disaster!  Using .357 Magnum brass, Speer lists a 8.7 grain load of Bullseye as maximum with a 110-grain bullet.  Lyman lists 6.1 grains of Bullseye as producing 39,300 cup in .357 Brass with a 170-grain cast bullet.

As I'm sure you are aware, primer shape is a very poor method of "guessing" pressures, regardless of what Paco says. (I corresponded with Paco years ago, I like and respect the man, but some of his theories and ideas are not supported by science or engineering fact.)   Hornady looked into this over a decade ago and found primer appearance to be almost useless in gauging accurate pressures.  Ditto Speer, this is one reason their listed max loads have dropped significantly over the past 25 years - they got pressure reading equipment and demonstrated that primer appearance can be a poor indicator.  

"Slightly sticky" extraction should be a clue - with the small diameter .357 brass, case head thrust has to be pretty high to show sticky extraction, particularly when .223 ammo (same diameter) is loaded to well over 50,000 cup with no signs of stickyness.  It's your gun and your hand of course, but I'd caution you either to use much less Bullseye, or to switch to a slower powder.

[Catfish]

Your presure has to be pretty high. I only use 6 grn. of Bullseye in my .44 mag. loads with a .240 grn. bullet. I use ocne and only fired 1 round and pulled the rest of the bullets, way way to hot.

[Steve P]

If you said your load was 8.0 grains of unique, I would say, Hey, that sounds like a good one!"  8.0 of bullseye with a 270 grain bullet out of 357 mag brass sounds like something you would load for your enemies to shoot!!  Yikes :oops:

Steve  

[Robert]

I am going to reserch other loads, but there is NO EXISTING DATA for 357 Max with the 280 Lyman.  I tried only two of those loads, but Friday at the range, I used them with 4.0 grs of Red Dot.  The guys at the range were laughing...just a little 'POP' sound and then a few seconds later..'thwack'!  I havent had ANY keyholing at all with these big bullets in my factory Contender barrel, and beleive it or not...these big bullets with 4.0 Red Dot were going over the top of the target at 85 yds. Hot loads with 200 gr bullets were1- 2 inchs high.  I had to hold down with the heavy cast/light loads.  Very odd.

[Lone Star]

Actually this is not odd at all.  The slow heavy bullet is means a long barrel time.  This means that the muzzle is pointed much higher when the bullet exits than it is with the high velocity 200-grain loads.  Because the muzzle is pointed higher when the bullet leaves, the bullet lands higher on the target.  Happens all the time.