Reliability of pistol caliber lever actions

[Doc TH]

Some time ago, Jan Libourel wrote in a "home defense" article that he had found lever action rifles chambered for pistol calibers (.357, .44 mag, 45 Colt, etc) to be unreliable in terms of feeding.  He speculated that could have been due to the straight wall design of the cartridges as distinguished from the bottle neck cartridges most of the levers were first designed for.  I have not seen these comments elsewhere, but for obvious reasons, this is an important issue given the increasing number of those carbines being sold, and used.  Is this just an example of a gunwriter's baseless blathering, unsubstantiated by any evidence, or are there objective data that support his belief?

[HipShot]

Marlins and Winchesters are flawless feeders. Rossi makes a hit or miss product. Pumas are good.

He's FOS; he either has no clue, or is basing that judgement on one brand, probably Rossi.

[Zcarp2]

Funny - I heard (not first hand) that Winchester Model (18)94 (that were designed for bottlenecks) had feeding issues.  The lifter is not designed for such a short cartridge.  The shorter actioned Model 1892's work fine.  The Rossi is based on the 1892 action and mine works fine.

The Marlin has a good reputation on feed reliability again from what I've heard.

[HipShot]

This is one of those subjects that ruffles feathers. If you've got a good Rossi, you don't want to hear people putting her down, even though they may have been through half a dozen to get a good one.

The 92/94 issue has been mentioned before, but I'd look at what Paco Kelly has to say about it before passing judgement.

We just had a discussion about this issue here: http://leverguns.sixgunner.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5282&whichpage=1

[bigjeepman]

I have had an 1894 Marlin CBC in .45 lc for about 15 months now. I also previously owned a Winchester Legacy. Neither one of these rifles ever hinted at a feeding problem but that doesn't mean problems do not exist though I have never heard of one.

Though there are countless good and honest writers for all sports, there are a few less talented ones that knowingly become controversial on topics they probably know very little about. I am not saying this particular article was written by someone of limited talent but just referring that the possibility does exist.

[ButlerFord45]

I've had minor feeding problems with Rossi, Puma, Marlin and Winchester copies.  All my problems were solved by getting away from semiwadcutter bullets. The lip on them tends to hang up on the edge of the chamber.  After switching to round flat nose bullets, I've never had a problem with any of them.

[Bob]

No problems with either my Winchester '92 or '94. Great fun to shoot!
Bob

[leverfan]

Jan Libourel wrote in a "home defense" article that he had found lever action rifles chambered for pistol calibers (.357, .44 mag, 45 Colt, etc) to be unreliable in terms of feeding.  He speculated that could have been due to the straight wall design of the cartridges as distinguished from the bottle neck cartridges most of the levers were first designed for.

I can't even begin to list all of the straight walled and nearly straight walled cases that have been chambered in lever guns.  Many lever guns were designed around straight or straight taper cased cartridges, and I don't hear anyone complaining about their 45-70, 444, 450 Marlin, 375 Winchester, 38-55, etc.  Heck, even the 44-40 doesn't have very much of a bottle neck.  Maybe Libourel should take a look at the straight sided 44 Henry rimfire, just to remind himself that the 30-30 wasn't the first practical lever gun cartridge.

Many problems with feeding in leverguns stems from picking the wrong bullet, or seating it to the wrong overall length.  The right bullet profile seated to the right length makes a lever gun very reliable.  I guess Libourel doesn't follow the golden rule of gun writing:  only write what you know, and make sure you've tested it out.  He's not the only guy wasting our time with old stories that he hasn't checked out, but I"ve read a lot of crap that had his name next to the title.  I don't bother with his magazine any more.

[old06]

I haven't done any hi tech test but do own a Win 94 trapper in 357 and have shot around 500 to 700 rounds in 38 and 357 with out a hint of a feeding problem except maybe not bring enough ammo a time or two.  :wink:

[inluvwithsara]

I've put thousands of rounds through our marlin .357...158 semi jacketed hp's...never a problem...My friend had issues, but he was short strokeing it and operating it slow...so yeah...operate it wrong and it is not reliable...but learn you tools inside and out...shoot them, try differnt loads for them, don't buy it, shoot a box through it and call it a day...know you weapon!
 :agree:  Good to Go!

[captainkirk]

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobody's fault I'm gonna blow your head off. No matter what happens, no matter who gets killed I'm gonna blow your head off."  

Sorry, I thought you was dead Mr. McCandles...

[inluvwithsara]

"not hardly."

[Leverdude]

Any one of them can have feeding issues. I mostly like Marlins myself but had the bad fortune of gettng an 1894c that I just couldnt get to function reliably. Tried a 94 Win with the same results & then a Rossi which, so far is flawless.

[T.J. McSuds]

I had a Rossi Trapper and would have loved it, if it would feed. It was a .357 and would not feed any 357 load that I tried. Four factory loads and two handloads. It would feed .38s but I did not buy it for 38s. I only kept it 2 weeks.
 I'm tempted to try another in 44-40. If I do, I'll get it from Nate Kiowa Jones, already tuned.

[oso45-70]

Fellow Shooters,

I have a Rossi 92 in 44-40 and have never had a problem with feeding.
I firmly belive that a lot the feeding problems some of the guys have are self induced either by the ammo they use or the speed that they lever the gun. And before some one flames me i do know that sometimes there are guns that will malfunction while feeding. thats my opinion....Joe.....

[dodgecity]

I shoot my Marlin 1894s and my model 1895 a lot, and I shoot them with reloads. I also have a couple of lever action 22s. I have never had a feeding problem with any of my rifles, and they collectively have thousands of rounds through them. Sometimes a new rifle will have a burr at the mouth of the chamber that will cause feeding problems, but this is easily polished out. A quick examination with the tip of your little finger will tell if this is a problem. Most of the time, I find that perceived feeding problems with a lever action come when a person who is unfamiliar with lever actions tries to cycle the action too slowly or too gently.

[armory414]

I have a Rossi Mdl. 92 in .357 and have never had a problem with .38 spl or .357 mag ammo.  By the way, I was told by several people (a couple of them dealers) that Rossi/Puma/Taurus was the same company.  So, how can a Puma be better than a Rossi if that's the case?  Have any of you tried the Ruger 96 in .44 mag?  I suspect the rotary mag will get around some of the ammo issues.

[Leverdude]

I think Taurus bought Rossi. Rossi makes the Puma & the only difference I know about is the Puma has a saftey on the bolt while the Rossi's EMF & Navy Arms import  dont. I think the Puma is imported by LSI.