Barrel lapping

[Stillhuntn]

I am debating the merits of lapping the barrels of several handguns.  Only two of these were purchased new.  The others I have no idea the number of rounds shot through them prior to my purchasing them.  My 44 SBH has between 1100 and 1200 rounds through it.  This has been a mixture of jacketed and cast bullets.  My 7X30 Waters has between 100 and 150 rounds, all which were jacketed.  I have shot over 1000 rounds through the 41.  
With the number of rounds through the 41 and 44 would lapping provide any benefit?  
The 7X30 Waters is a factory barrel that has yet to produce the accuracy that I feel it is capable of.  I have had others shoot this for me and they too achieve almost miserable accuracy.  This has been with handloads and factory ammo.  This barrel patterns more than groups.  Will lapping the barrel resolve this?
All input is greatly appreciated.
Rick

[Lone Star]

IME fire lapping is good for smoothing up the forcing cone and removing the barrel restriction under the threads of revolvers.  Normal firing will do nothing for this latter problem, not even 1000s of rounds.  Hand lapping can reduce fouling in factory rifle/handgun barrels and if done very carefully can sometimes improve accuracy.  It is easy to screw up hand lapping though, happens all the time.

[Catfish]

I would recomand you forget it. The only barrel that had alot of rounds fired through it that I ever fire laped was a .17 Rem. that was foulled so bad with Molly that it lost all accuracy and no amount of cleaning would remove it. I did fire lap that barrel and get it to shooting again, but it was a last resort, it that wouldn`t have worked I was going to rebarrel the gun. 1 round fired with lapping compound on it is like fireing 100 rounds without it, it will wear out your barrel unnessarily if not really needed.

[Mikey]

Stillhuntin' - firelapping will do those shooters a world of good.  Firelapping is a 'controlled wear' process that smooths out any of the roughness and inconcentricities you may have in the barrel that is preventing you from obtaining maximum accuracy.

In the first instance, Lone Star is correct about the effects of firelapping on revolver barrels and if you decide to go that route (and I have with noticeable success) I would suggest you follow the process set forward by Veral Smith - further on down the forum list is his own forum - or others such as Beartooth Bullets.  Both Veral and Beartooth will provide the proper materials and instuctions for successful firelapping.  You will notice the improvement in the accuracy of all your shooters.   I have lapped a number of rifles and a couple of revolvers and brother, it does make a difference.  

Two new barrels on two older S&W revovlers would give me 4" at 50 yds at the best, with my best loads.  After firelapping I cut those groups in half - and with my eyes I consider that an incredible improvement in accuracy.  I can shoot silly-wets with these two shorties (3.5 and 4")

As for your 7-30 - lap that sucker.  You should cut your groups in half, at the least, if not better than that.  Your barrel is still new after less than 200 rounds and can benefit from firelapping.  

The most important part of this process is to follow the instructions sent with the firelapping kit - those are important.  Some folk feel they can abbreviate the process and end up with more problems than before, as the Catfish mentioned. Also, I do not recommend moly lubed bullets - the Catfish had a problem with them and the research I have reviewed tells me that moly lubing of bullets doesn't get you any returns in terms of enhanced accuracy or velocity, BUT WILL build up some very difficult to remove deposits that crud up your barrel pretty quickly.  HTH.  Mikey.

[crawfish]

I have a .41 caliber lapping kit from BullBerry on my bench right now. I’m just waiting until I have time to get to a Ruger SBH Hunter and a Contender. Fire lapping just as any other shooting reloading procedure has a definite order to follow and a definite set of equipment. The books by Misters Smith and Stanton should be “must have” for any handgun shooter who uses cast bullets. According to Mr. Smith fire lapping should be the way to “break in” a new handgun. So far I have done every one of my .41s and a 45-70. All showed measurable increases in accuracy and everyone became MUCH easier to clean.

[Stillhuntn]

Thanks for the replies.  Please keep them coming.

[S.B.]

I've fire lapped several pistol barrels and the first thing you'll notice is easier and less cleaning is needed. Accuracy is definitely improved, also. I've done every thing from a .22LR to a .44 mag. all improved. Rugers seem to be in need of this no matter how many rounds have been put through them. I think Brownell's still sells the kits for this, just follow the instructions and good luck.

[Questor]

Stillhuntin:

I think it's something else. Firelapping and lapping are refinements for optimal accuracy, not techniques for getting adequate accuracy. My first guesses would be that you have bad loads or bad barrel crowns or a bad trigger pull that makes you shoot poorly.

[S.B.]

Stillhuntin:

I think it's something else. Firelapping and lapping are refinements for optimal accuracy, not techniques for getting adequate accuracy. My first guesses would be that you have bad loads or bad barrel crowns or a bad trigger pull that makes you shoot poorly.

Optimal and adequate can only be determined by the gun that is being shot. Only after the potential accuracy of any particular firearm is know can either be determined. And I agree, that ALL mechanical features need to be looked at, to see if all is in order before starting any fix programs.

[Questor]

What I meant was that if it's shooting patterns instead of groups, firelapping won't help.

[SingleFan]

How about FA's?  I've heard they are acid etched and as such may not benefit as much.  What are your opinions on that application?

[S.B.]

How about FA's?  I've heard they are acid etched and as such may not benefit as much.  What are your opinions on that application?

Afraid you lost me there, I've never heard of acid etching a barrels lands and grooves? Why would any manufacturer want to do this? Is there benfit from this process? Not a very good way to control what's going on inside a barrel, in my opinion. Most of the FA's I've know of don't need anything done to the bore to get them to shoot good, they're excellent right from the factory. One of the best, IMHO.

[Stillhuntn]

Questor,
I thought of this early in the problem.  I had my shooting and hunting partner shot the pistol and he had the same results.  He is a contender nut and I have watched him shot so I know if it was my mechanics it would have been shown with him shooting.  My next thought was the frame.  I swapped in a 10" 30-30 and it will cloverleaf 7 shots off the bags at 25 yards with iron sights and my bad eyes.  It does not seem to matter if the ammo is factory or handloads, as it patterns both equally bad.
The fire-forming rounds at least grouped even though point of impact was low and to the right.  I duplicated that loading and the rounds are now patterning.
I am not going to expend a lot more time or effort on resolving this.  If it is not shooting like I feel it can by mid summer it will be going back to T/C for factory evaluation

[Questor]

In that case, I wouldn't wait that long to return it for a fix. If your groups are over, say, 3" at 100 yards, then try it with factory ammo. If it still shoots over 3" using a good scope for a sight, send it back with a letter that explains your problem and all the steps you made to try to solve it.

I had a problem with my son's Encore .223 rifle. I tried different loads and bullets and the groups were around 3" at 100 yards. This was not good enough for prairie dog shooting, so I sent it back. They re-crowned the barrel and now it shoots under 1". They stand behind their products, but they need as much help as you can give them to identify and diagnose the problem.