Battle of the mid-priced scopes.

[Mattkc]

In the last year I have purchased 4 new mid-priced scopes. First bought a Bushnell 3200 5X15X40 then a S&W 3X9X40, Weaver 3X9X38 and a Leupold Rifleman 4X12X40.  Just got the Leupold today and took all the scopes outside to compare them for brightness and sharpness.  It was over cast and I set all the scopes on 9X.  What surprised me was the Leup. came in dead last.  The 3200 was the brightest and sharpest able to pick up very fine detail.  Next was the S&W very close to the 3200.  I used the S&W for taking a nice 10 point buck this year at dusk.   I got the S&W on clearance for $88 only draw back it is heavy.  Next is the Weaver 3X9X38.  This scope is decent for $150 but not quite as brght and clear as the 3200 or S&W.  Dead last is the Leupold Rifleman 4X12X40 it didn't come close to the other scopes in brightness or sharpness.  I know this is the bottom line for Leupold but it cost the same as the 3200 and much more then the Weaver and S&W.  Any way the Leup. going back tommorow and I will get a 3200.

[Zachary]

I own SEVERAL Elite scopes, although most of them are 4200s, which are noticeably better than the 3200s.  But still, compared to other similarly priced scopes, the 3200s are King!  The only other scope in that price range that I like and are of equal quality is the Nikon Buckmasters - but again, I still prefer the 3200s.

Good Choice!  Although you should look at the optic zone for scopes - where I buy almost ALL of my optics.  They have no tax and their prices are among the lowest I have seen anywhere.

Zachary

[tominboise]

I have 2 Elite 3000, and 5 elite 3200 scopes.  I like them.  They are a good value for the money, and they have a lifetime warranty.  The most expensive scope I own is a zeiss conquest, which is nice, but I'm not sure it's 2.75 times as nice....

[Mattkc]

Returned the Rifleman and picked up a 3200.  Man what a difference bright and clear with great detail.  Will be going on my Savage 17HMR tonight.  Critters beware headed to the Ozarks this weekend.

[TheOpticZone]

Leupold is getting to be to expensive for the quality of product that you get, but they are still good products.  Bushnell and Nikon are getting more of a hand shake now.

[Redhawk1]

I will stick to my Leupolds.  :grin: I have noticed just the opposite. My Leupolds are the clearest of the scopes I did comparisons on. I guess we all see thing different.  

[goose7856]

Jon, and anyone else who can help, what do you think about the quality and overall "goodness" (is that a word!! :eek:   ) of the Burris Fullfield II??

They seeem to be great scopes for the money with 95% light transmission, and a few other goodies like the ballistic plex, they seem to be comparable to Buckmasters, 3200, and maybe Monarchs and 4200s??

Is that a fair comparison??

And + you can get them for the same as Buckmasters and 3200's on Ebay. (Sry Jon, I will still purchase many optics from you in the future, Ebay just gives a very low price [about $210 for the 4.5-14x42 AO Ball. Plex ret.])

Thanx.....oh yea, I THINK I have decided just now to buy a CZ Style or Silhouette, and I want to put a really good scope on it to start off, then as I buy another gun, I will either keep the same scope on the CZ, or put a cheaper scope on the CZ, and move the good one to say a 25-06 or .243/.243 WSSM (kinda looking into one for the future)........so I am kinda keeping the future in mind with the scope purchase......how would the 4.5-14x42 Burris Fullfield II Fit??

TIA!!

[Mac11700]

Gee...I wouldn't compare the Rifleman with any of the other scopes...but for the same money...I'll put my VX 1 up against any takers and go dollar for dollar with the more pricey ones on the market...there's where the difference comes in...I looked at them too over at Walley World...and cannot believe how crappy they were...and I really don't get why Leupold would enter into a agreement to put their name on a scope as bad as those...sheeeeese

Mac

[Mattkc]

Goose one thing to point out the Fullfield ll is made in the PI not US or Japan that said it is a decent scope, I don't care for the ranging dots.  I do think the 3200 is a better scope for the same price.

[Redhawk1]

Gee...I wouldn't compare the Rifleman with any of the other scopes...but for the same money...I'll put my VX 1 up against any takers and go dollar for dollar with the more pricey ones on the market...there's where the difference comes in...I looked at them too over at Walley World...and cannot believe how crappy they were...and I really don't get why Leupold would enter into a agreement to put their name on a scope as bad as those...sheeeeese

Mac

I would have to agree with you. I love Leupold scopes but would not consider the rifleman for one of my guns. Leupold need to stick to the better quality and forget the lower end scopes. JMHO  

[Grubbs]

I have to agree withe the opticzone man on this one.....Leupold is a poor value for the product received.  There are many better scopes for the money out there.

[Redhawk1]

I have to agree withe the opticzone man on this one.....Leupold is a poor value for the product received.  There are many better scopes for the money out there.

I am glad that was just your opinion.  :grin:  :eek:  :roll:

[HogFan]

I recently bought 3 Elite 3200's and couldn't be happpier with them. I got rid of my two Weavers and the one Sightron I owned. When I purchased my second Elite, I did an in store comaprison, between it, the Nikon Buckmaster, Nikon Prostaff, Leupold VXI, VXII, and Rifleman, as well as the Burris Fullfield II. I will admit the Lupold VXII won, but not by much. To my eyes the 3200, and the Fullfield were tied. I went with the 3200, because it was on sale for $50 off.

I am thinking about buying one more rifle, and due to limited budget, the VXII will be out of the question so the 3200, or a Fullfield that is on sale at a good price will fit the bill.

HogFan

[jackfish]

It appears that many here don't know the origin of the Leupold Rifleman scope.  It is essentially the same scope as the previous and discontinued Leupold Vari-X II, the scope that made Leupold a legend.  Sure it was not multicoated and had 1/2 MOA-increment friction adjustments, but this line has accounted for thousands of game animals.  The Leupold Rifleman is an adequately functional instrument for big game hunting.  I'm sure there are scopes for the same money that are brighter and clearer.  But the Rifleman is rugged with a great warranty and allows target acquisition unrivaled in most other scopes.

[Squeeze]

I have to respectfully disagree with the previous poster about the quality of
Leupold optics being justified by their durability.  First, let me say I bought a
VX-II for my 300WSM, and I was happy with it at the time.  Then through
reading posts, I purchased a Weaver V16, then a Burris Handgun scope,
then a Bushnell 4200, then a Bushnell 3200, and then a Nikon Monarch,
for different rifles,to give each a real world test.  I was in the process of upgrading
optics, on current rifles/handguns, and acquiring several new rifles, at the time.
First let me say that none of these brands have given me any trouble, and some
of them have seen considerable trigger time.  As previously stated, I agree that
Leupold is not a good value, no matter how one wants to rationalize it, unless
one wants to boil it down to brand loyalty.  There is something to be said for
confidence, so if one wants to pay more for confidence, far be it from me to
tell them they should not.  But I want the best I can get for my  money, and
I don't care who's name is on it, as long as they stand behind it.  The one issue
I had was a Burris mount problem, and Burris did a great job of responding.

As for the rationalization that Leupold is worth the extra money, because of
their lifetime warranty, take a look at the warranty on other scopes.  Many
also say "Limited Lifetime", and having heard accounts of good and bad experiences
with all of these brands customer service groups, I can not justify spending a
hundred or two more dollars for a feature I SHOULD NEVER need.  And as
I have stated, currently I have not needed any customer service on a Weaver,
Burris, Bushnell, Nikon, or Leupold scope...As it should be.

Back to my review of these different brands, and models, that now sit on my
firearms.  I have to give the clarity award to Nikon.  I have to give the brightness
award to both Bushnell(4200), and Nikon.  and I have to give the best value
award to Bushnell 3200.  Now I realize that these scopes are not all at the same
price point, so my comparision is not on a level playing field, but they are all
within the $200 to $400 range.  Which is the price range that I limit my scope
choices to.  My booby prize for the biggest disappointment goes to Leupold.
Yes it is a tough scope, and yes it is fairly bright, a has good clarity, but this
scope priced slightly higher than the Nikon, from the Optic Zone, and putting
the two in a side by side comparison, the Leupold is a huge disappointment.
I wish it were not so.  So, if I am looking for a good scope, and I am price
sensitive, I will look hard at the Bushnell 3200, or possibly the Nikon Buckmaster,
and if I want to spend something at the upper end of my price range($400), it will
be a Nikon Monarch.

Leupold, please find a way to be more competative price-to-performance wise,
and I will be back...Until then, Nikon, and Bushnell will be getting my money.
I did this same thing with vehicle purchases when I went away from US autos,
back in the 70's.  That lasted until the mid 90's, when I went back to US
vehicles.  Last year my wife's Yukon was traded for a Honda Pilot, and my
GMC Sierra Z71 may get traded for a Toyota Tundra.  I have had my fill of
nickel and dime crap like leaking seals, on my GM products.  My service guys
think it's OK to have to replace wheel seals every year, on a GM truck...I do not!
If American companies want to compete, they have to understand value.  If
they want to charge more, it has to give more value than just saying, "It is
American made".  I will pay 10% more for "American Made", provided
quality, and reliability, are comparable.  For me, by this equation, Leupold
needs to lower it's prices.

Squeeze

[Grubbs]

My opinion just happens to be pretty well undeniable fact...Leup are way overpriced....like I said a poor value for money spent.  I did not say they were terrible scopes....I said overpriced.  

Why purchase:
Leup VXIII....when you can get and elite 4200 or Conquest?
Leup VXII...when you can get a Monarch or Burris?

My opinions come from personal hand on experience.  Leup definitely not worth the prices they charge nowadays.  I've never had any problems with the Burris, Conqest, Pentax Lightseeker, or Swaro A-line that I have ever had.  In their class they are superior to Leupold every time.

[goose7856]

well said grubbs, and squeeze.......now this is mostly from second hand experience, but I have heard exactly what they were saying also......maybe leupold needs to rethink their prices??!!

[Steelhead]

The other brands may well hold up, but I will never find out.  We are not talking walking 200 yards to your deer stand hunting here. Leupolds have been drug through some of the nastiest stuff SE Alaska can put out and have always performed perfectly.

I submit that sitting in a deer stand in St. Helena Parish, LA and Mountain Goat in Misty Fjords ask two entirely different things from your optics.

Scopes are SIGHTS, nothing more and nothing less. The lighter, smaller and more simple and rugged the better. Great optics belong in Binoculars and spotting scopes.

[wild willy]

Bushnells may be great scopes now. I don't know I do know the ones I bought 20 plus years ago weren't and are long gone I still have and are using the Leupolds I bought then

[Dave in WV]

My last scope purchase was a Leupold VX 2 1x4. I bought it for the features and the specs were more impressive than the competition to me. Price wise it was about the same. That said I couldn't see any reason to spend another $140 for a VX 3. I also own a Burris Signature, Pentax Lightseeker, and a Leupold compact 3x9 EEFR. They are all exactly what I wanted for the job.

[Mac11700]

I did this same thing with vehicle purchases when I went away from US autos,
back in the 70's.

Well...that can open a big can of worms...so you think you have to buy  your optics from an overseas market...because they are better built...please...basing your personal preference on that notion is dead wrong...I've had just about all makes and models of scopes...from totally disposaable types(shot 1 and then toss) on up thru the some of the higher priced models...the  Nickon lines and Weavers and Redfields and Bushies,to having 3 types of the Leupolds now VX-1...VX2...and a new VX-3...and are they really  better values for the money try this...drop your Monarch and take it back where you bought it and ask to have it replaced free...with out any hassel...I bet you won't...you'll have to pack it up...make a few calls...and wait till you get it shipped back...take a Leupold in where you bought it...if the store is a Leupold distributer...a simple phone call from the store and you can walk out with a new one...I found this out...and this was with a older Vari X 2...then of course you decieide you want to change the reticle in it...from say a duplex to a German #4...can you do that with yours???Probably not...and if they do...it will cost you almost as much as the scope did...but for $55 bucks...it's a phone call away with the Leupold...

Brand Loyalty...yep...you can say that...

Mac

[Redhawk1]

Mac11700, I could not of said it better myself.  

[Squeeze]

 
 
Quote:
I did this same thing with vehicle purchases when I went away from US autos,
back in the 70's.
 
 
Well...that can open a big can of worms...so you think you have to buy your optics from an overseas market...because they are better built...please...basing your personal preference on that notion is dead wrong...
 

 
Mac,  
 
I must not have been clear about overseas products, versus American made products.  
 I buy the best value, which is a balance of quality,  reliability, price, and product
support.  Where it is made, and what name is on it, means  very little to me.  
I find the best value by reading reviews, testimonials, and specifications.  
Then I buy some, and decide if they live up to my expectations.  If they do, I buy  
more, if they do not, I don't buy any more...Pretty simple.  Leupold VX-II's do not  
meet my expectations for my definition of value.  As for toughness, my Bushnell 4200,  
on my Model 16 syn/stainless Savage .22-250, is my truck/ATV gun, that is constantly  
having my Lab walk on it, in the back of my truck(cased on the floor behind my seat),  
or bouncing around the gun boot on the ATV, and it has never lost zero.  My Burris,  
on my .308 Savage striker, has to be held down with three Warne Rings just  
to keep it tight, due to the aggressive loads I shoot out of it to make up for the  
14" barrel MV loss.  The recoil on this gun is more severe than any of my magnum  
rifles, and this Burris Handgun scope  has never lost zero.  I have more examples  
of extreme service from optics, that do not have a gold ring(Leupold).    
 
As for warranty issues, like I said, I have not needed to use any of these brand's  
customer service, except for a Burris ring issue, and Burris responded quickly,  
and satisfactorily.  In general, I expect the company to handle product problems,
not the retailer, unless it is a problem just following purchase time.  A retailer  
will loose my business, just like a brand would, if service is poor.  
 
Like I said, I will pay up to about 10% more, to support American companies, if
their products are comparable to foreign companies products, in quality, and  
reliability.  After that, loyalty to my wallet overrides my loyalty to American  
companies.  It is the only way I know to send them a message that they need
to change.   Leupold already has convinced me that they are rugged, and they
have great product support.  Now they have to give me the brightness, and  
clarity of Bushnell, and Nikon, at a price not more than 10% more than these  
brands, and then my next scope will have a gold ring on it...Until then, they  
won't be selling me scopes.  Like I said, I wish this were not so.  I really  
would like that pretty gold ring on my scopes :grin:  
 
Squeeze

[TheOpticZone]

I am not here to start a big arguement on which scope is better or who likes what, but when you look at the $ you spend for the quality, customer service, durability, etc of a scope you get, currently there are many scopes out there that are a "better buy" for the money.   Namely the Nikon's, Bushnell's and Weaver's.  Yes it is nice to be loyal to a certain brand and there is nothing wrong with that.  This topic is one that will be disputed for as long as there are different brands to be bought.  Like Squeeze stated, some time there are people that need to watch the money that they spend and there is nothing wrong with buying the very best scope that they can afford with the available money they have.

For examle, if a person is looking at a Nikon Monarch 3-9x40 ($255.00) or a Leupold VX-II 3-9x40 ($299.99)/Leupold VX-III 3.5-10x40 ($459.99), is that person getting anything truely better with the Leupold for the extra $50-$200? Maybe or Maybe not.  But, that Nikon Monarch will still shoot a deer or elk out to 300 yards or more with no problems.  And that person will be the happiest person.  They don't remember what scope they were using.  They just remember the experience and excitement of the hunt.  Everyone is going to have their opinion on this subject and that is what makes this country great.  Everyone can express that opinion.  That is the main thing to remember.  Just that some people can only afford what they can and they want to get the highest quality of product for the money.

[Redhawk1]

TheOpticZone, I agree with the statement, get what you can afford and I understand what you are saying. But for my peace of mind when I go 4000 miles from home in Alaska and the nearest town is 200 miles away and they don't have a scope on the shelf. I want a proven scope, and that my friend is Leupold. I will spend more on optics than a gun in some situations. I know the cost is not what make an item good, but reputation and standing behind one's product is most important. So I chose to top all my guns with Leupold. Also call it product loyalty.  

[SHANE CLARK]

jon, is the zeiss conquest 3x9 worth the little extra than the nikon monarch? i`m stuck between the two with the elite 4200 in a solid third.

[TheOpticZone]

Shane,

I think that the Zeiss is slightly better than the Nikon, but not a noticeable different for the extra $130.

[victorcharlie]

Fellows, I'm darn tired of globalization.  I can't do much about it, but I can darn sure try to keep my money close to home.  

My understanding is that Leupold, Burris and Bushnell are still at least assembled in this country.  I, also had bushnell's back in the day when they were a cheap no count scope, and I still remember it.  From a resale point of view, other people remember those days as well.  I have to admit that Greybeard's testimonial on the bushnell elite 4200 has got me wanting to try one.  Haven't owned a Burris, but seems the top of the line burris is as expensive if not more expensive than a leupold.  

Nikon, Pentax etc. certainly are not american made (gasp, or assembled), and for me, are out of the question as there are other alternatives.

Warranty, customer service, resale value, and made in the USA makes me pay the extra for a Leupold.  

You can call me a patriotic old fool, but I see where this globalization thing is headed.  Where's my grand children going to work?

[quickdtoo]

My understanding is that Leupold, Burris and Bushnell are still at least assembled in this country.

The Bushnell Elite 4200 is made in Japan, the rest of the line is split up between the philippines, Korea and China and Japan depending on when it was made. Burris FFII are made in the Philippines from what I've read, it is one of the few scopes that isn't marked as to where it is made, maybe because production sites change so much in today's optics market.  :?

[TheOpticZone]

Redhawk,

I agree with you.  If someone has the money and they are going to buy a scope no matter how much it cost, than yes I would recommend a Leupold.  All I am saying is that sometime people don't have the money to buy a Leupold at the prices they are.