IMR 4350 tested good in the NEF .30-30

[mag41vance]

I tested 150gr Sierra spitzers in my NEF single shot, over 36 grains of IMR 4350 (COL 2.849") set off with Federal GM210M primer.

My 3 shot 100 yard group measured .826"

I will try a 5 shot group on the next calm day.
This load was compressed.

This load is not for Lever action rifles with tubular magazines.

[lik2hunt]

Hey RV    I posted to this one over at the Marlin Owners forum too, but that's pretty impressive. I hope mine can do that well when I start reloading for it. I'd like to get sub-MOA with a partition or BT in 150 -165 grain. Did ya chrony that load or have some idea of the MZ velocity?

[marv]

Thanks R.V. for posting that load. I never thought 4350 was a good powder for 30-30, Guess I'm wroung, I try when I get back with the
 30-30. just doesn't seam like I have time or wind is blowing a gale,
 or pouring down rain Good luck Marv.

[mag41vance]

Hey RV    I posted to this one over at the Marlin Owners forum too, but that's pretty impressive. I hope mine can do that well when I start reloading for it. I'd like to get sub-MOA with a partition or BT in 150 -165 grain. Did ya chrony that load or have some idea of the MZ velocity?

Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:07 am    Post subject:      

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lik2hunt wrote:
Dang RV, that's pretty impressive. Heck any sub-MOA group in a Handi impresses me. What about velocities with that load? Were those the Pro-Hunter spitzers? My 30-30 will shoot a 1" group at 50 yards with factory Winchesters but I haven't tried it at 100 yet. I'd like to load it with some spitzers or even some 150 grain partitions or Balistic tips. Keep up the load testing, save us all some time.  


I haven't chronographed the load, also I just loaded 12 Hornady SST 150's to test. I had to seat them at 2.9 inches which is just off the lands, and that case is packed full of 4350
The sierra bullet is the 2130.
I'll test and report.

[lik2hunt]

The fact that you're using as slow a powder as the 4350 and loading spire point bullets is what intrigues me the most. I plan to get dies and bullets and maybe another powder to try (have some 4350) after the first of the year and give it a go myself.  I have had my barrel for a while now but like marv says time is a protected and limited resource sometimes and Okie weather is a pain. It's rained every week at least one day and usuallly more since the opening weekend of muzzle-loader season here and it is really wreaking havoc on my rifle season right now. Wind, rain, wind, rain, wind, rain, welcome to Oklahoma fall weather.

Keep the testing and posting up and hopefully you'll hit on a good pet load for us all to work off of.

[jeff223]

sounds like you have i winner there RV.cant ask for much more than that :wink:

[lik2hunt]

WOW!  :eek:  I just checked out the SST's on-line again, hadn't looked at 'em in a while. That would be the perfect bullet for the 30-30 I think. Polymer tip, boat tail, uniform expansion. Can you get it to travel fast enough to open up efficiently out of the 30-30 though?

[Hildy]

The IMR 4350 is what me 25-06 likes best also.

[mag41vance]

WOW!  :eek:  I just checked out the SST's on-line again, hadn't looked at 'em in a while. That would be the perfect bullet for the 30-30 I think. Polymer tip, boat tail, uniform expansion. Can you get it to travel fast enough to open up efficiently out of the 30-30 though?

  I figure the 150 gr bullet will be traveling at around 2200fps. Is that fast enough to be deadly. When you consider that most of the ballistic tip bullets only retain about 60-70% of their weight at top speed, perhaps the .30-30 will allow the bullet to do an adequate job. I'll let you know.

 Marv,
  You need to make a trip to VA and shoot that thing in calm weather.

 I'll post a picture of the group soon.

[lik2hunt]

Sounds like a plan then.

[mag41vance]

Picture of the group;

[lik2hunt]

Yep that's a great group alright. The spitzers ought to be deadly out of the 30-30. Same bullets I was using for my 25-06 before it was returned to H&R (.257 - 117 gr.). The Sierras are good accurate bullets. Have ya got a chance to try the SST's yet?

[mag41vance]

Yep that's a great group alright. The spitzers ought to be deadly out of the 30-30. Same bullets I was using for my 25-06 before it was returned to H&R (.257 - 117 gr.). The Sierras are good accurate bullets. Have ya got a chance to try the SST's yet?

 I have the SST's loaded and ready. I just need the time. Hopefully this week.

[Paul5388]

Vance,

That's a great group!  Especially from what is not considered to be a "target" cartridge.

I haven't seen any listing for IMR 4350 to be used in a .30-30, since it is generally thought to be too slow for the .30-30.  However you thought this one up, it looks like it was good thinking!

The Sierra may disappoint you a little at that velocity.  I have some 139 Hornady loaded in a 7mm Mag for #1 son travelling at about the speed you are talking about.  The doe he shot this year was hit behind the front shoulder at an angle and the bullet and exited in front of the opposite shoulder.  The exit wound didn't exhibit much expansion at the lower velocities.  However, the doe only travelled about 10 yards after being hit.

The Sierra may be made with a little less thick jacket material, so good expansion may be possible with it.  It just doesn't look like the Hornady is built light enough to expand at lower MV.

That being said, he wanted a full box of the reduced loads, so I guess he was happy enough with the results!

[mag41vance]

Vance,

That's a great group!  Especially from what is not considered to be a "target" cartridge.

I haven't seen any listing for IMR 4350 to be used in a .30-30, since it is generally thought to be too slow for the .30-30.  However you thought this one up, it looks like it was good thinking!

The Sierra may disappoint you a little at that velocity.  I have some 139 Hornady loaded in a 7mm Mag for #1 son travelling at about the speed you are talking about.  The doe he shot this year was hit behind the front shoulder at an angle and the bullet and exited in front of the opposite shoulder.  The exit wound didn't exhibit much expansion at the lower velocities.  However, the doe only travelled about 10 yards after being hit.

The Sierra may be made with a little less thick jacket material, so good expansion may be possible with it.  It just doesn't look like the Hornady is built light enough to expand at lower MV.

That being said, he wanted a full box of the reduced loads, so I guess he was happy enough with the results!

 I am a "accuracy first proponent" as far as the bullet design, I guess field experience will be the judge and jury.
 Here is some data Sierra puts out for the .30-30, ( IMR 4350 is listed)

.308 170 gr. FN         30-30 Winchester
Cartridge OAL: 2.520"

   1800   1900   2000   2100   2150
RE-7   22.4   24.0
IMR-3031   25.7   26.9   28.1   29.3   29.8
H322   24.0   25.6   27.2   28.6   29.4
AA-2230      25.7   28.2   30.7   31.9
748   26.1   28.0   29.9   31.7
AA-2460      25.7   28.1   30.5
AA-2495 BR   26.0   27.6   29.2
AA-2520      27.9   29.7   31.6
IMR-4895   27.9   29.2   30.4
IMR-4064   26.4   27.8   29.2
Norma 202   27.0   28.5   30.0   31.5   32.0
Viht N540   27.6   29.2   30.8   32.3   32.9
RE-12   26.5   28.3   30.0
Viht N140   27.0   28.7   30.5   32.3
IMR-4350   31.6   32.9   34.3
Energy/ft.lbs.   1223   1362   1510   1664   1745

Accuracy Load: H322/27.2 grs.; 2000 fps/1510 ft.lbs.
Hunting Load: H322/29.4 grs.; 2150 fps/1745 ft.lbs.

[JPH45]

WOW!  :eek:  I just checked out the SST's on-line again, hadn't looked at 'em in a while. That would be the perfect bullet for the 30-30 I think. Polymer tip, boat tail, uniform expansion. Can you get it to travel fast enough to open up efficiently out of the 30-30 though?

Yes, I wrote Hornady about that bullet, the reply stated that the bullet was designed to expand at velocities below 1700 fps, but that was as low a velocity as they would speak of. My Handi is driving them at 2360 fps for muzzle velociry, and the author of the Hornady reply suggested this would be good for 300 yards :eek: Interesting thing is that JD Jones claims the 309 JDJ to be good for 400 pound animals at 300 yards using the Nosler 150 Partition driven at 2250 fps

[mag41vance]

JPH45, Gald to hear that about the hornady sst's. I was hoping it would be OK.
Hey Paul5388, I found some more data from Lyman with the IMR4350.
 

[Paul5388]

Vance,

Thanks for the info!  I load .30-30 for a couple of other people and can always use more data.  Besides, I may get a Handi .30-30 one of these days.  :grin:

[Longcruise]

I chronoed some 165 SST's out of my handi 30-30 and they were getting close to 2300 fps with a less than max charge of imr 4895.

How about 4350 under a 180 gr cast bullet?? :grin:

[marv]

R.V. Thanks for info you have brought up on the 30-30'
 
 I be using some if I ever get time and good weather.


 Longcruse, My thoughts with cast bullets You  need faster burning
 powder than IMR 4350.  Maybe IMR 4227 or 4198! Or  some shotgun
Powders Like some 45-70 shooters using Unique, Bluedot and such.
 Shoot straight, Marv.

[mag41vance]

I chronoed some 165 SST's out of my handi 30-30 and they were getting close to 2300 fps with a less than max charge of imr 4895.

How about 4350 under a 180 gr cast bullet?? :grin:

 That's interesting seeing that I have already loaded 10, 180gr cast lead-tip GC bullets ( from DJ ) over 34gr of I 4350.
 These are hunting bullets and if they shoot good, they will get tested on a whitetail.
 I agree with Marv about powders he listed. There is a lot of data for cast with those powders, but I am testing the 4350 just for grins.

[mag41vance]

Vance,

Thanks for the info!  I load .30-30 for a couple of other people and can always use more data.  Besides, I may get a Handi .30-30 one of these days.  :grin:

 170 sierra .30-30 bullet over 32 grains W748  with CCI350(magnum) has been the accuracy winner out of every Marlin 336 we've tested it in. Give it a whirl. PS; It doesn't shoot worth a hoot in the Handi :cry:

[lik2hunt]

Good to hear that the SST's are potentially good hunting bullets out of the 30-30. If they will open up at those velocities, and I feel like they will now, then they would be perfect to try on whitetails up to 125 pounds like we have around here. 150 yard max shots. I'll think I'll give 'em a try when I begin to reload for my 30-30 handi. The 165 gr. SST's sound like a good prospect too. IMR 4350 is what I have on hand now and no real use for it at present so.......why not. Keep up the good work RV   .[/quote]

[mag41vance]

Good to hear that the SST's are potentially good hunting bullets out of the 30-30. If they will open up at those velocities, and I feel like they will now, then they would be perfect to try on whitetails up to 125 pounds like we have around here. 150 yard max shots. I'll think I'll give 'em a try when I begin to reload for my 30-30 handi. The 165 gr. SST's sound like a good prospect too. IMR 4350 is what I have on hand now and no real use for it at present so.......why not. Keep up the good work RV   .

[/quote]

 Glad to help out in this way. I'd enjoy it even if nobody else cared.(like my wife :shock: )

    2:20  

[SBEACH]

I have read some of the articles by Paco Kelly on leverguns.com. The article name is 30-30 varmint loads. They have some pretty feisty 30-30 velocities coming off some of those loads and that is holding pressure to the 40,000 max. I have a magazine with an article about 30-30+p loads that are very similar to a .300savage velocity wise.

[Mac11700]

Hey Like2hunt....

IMR 4350 is what I have on hand now and no real use for it at present so.......why not.

...Don't you have a real nice 30-06 Weatherby??That is one of the better powders for that little jewel...

Mac

[lik2hunt]

Hey Like2hunt....Quote:
IMR 4350 is what I have on hand now and no real use for it at present so.......why not.
...Don't you have a real nice 30-06 Weatherby??That is one of the better powders for that little jewel...  

Mac

Oh yea I do  :roll:   Was caught in the grips of a severe case of Handi-itis........the condition which causes one to become a Handi-holic..........lost my good sense for a moment or two.......another condition brought on by Handi-itis.  
Actually I figure on loading for the 30-30 before concentrating on the 30-06. Loading the 30-30 in the fashions discussed in this thread is what motivated me to get the extra barrel in the first place. Love to shoot it as is and to load these SSt's or Nosler Partitions would evn more fun and certainly more onteresting.
RV, I guess you haven't got to try the SST's yet huh?

[Longcruise]

Some cast bullet shooters report excelent results in a variety of calibers when loading slower burning extruded powders to full case capacity under cast bullets.  That being the case, 4350 might be an excellent candidate for the 30-30 and cast.  I'm guessing that the ball powders would be an exception to the rule and might not be a good choice.

[SBEACH]

castbullet.com has some articles about 30-30 cast loads for those taht are interested.

[mag41vance]

Hey Like2hunt....Quote:
IMR 4350 is what I have on hand now and no real use for it at present so.......why not.
...Don't you have a real nice 30-06 Weatherby??That is one of the better powders for that little jewel...  

Mac

RV, I guess you haven't got to try the SST's yet huh?

 Got to test the SST' s today. Shot six total. Three to foul the barrel and three for group.
 I had seat the bullet out more than the handi wanted, and still had the bullet hit the lands. That 150 gr sst is longer than the Sierra 2130. The SST grouped 3 @ 100 1.364" and about 1 inch left from the Sierra.
The sierra grouped 3 @ 100 yds =.626"
 Both had 36 gr IMR 4350.

 I will not load anymore SST's with the 4350. Just not enough room in the case for the bullet and the powder. I did load up 10 150 SST's  with 32 gr IMR 4064 to test. The velocity should be a little hotter than the 4350 with less powder. I was able to seat the sst to the cannelure with the 4064, but not with the 4350. I'll try to test the 4064/sst in the next few days.

 Side note: I shot a total of 15 loads at my shooting bench today at noon. at 4:25 PM I climbed into my River stand which is 25 yards from my concrete shooting bench. I was there about 2 minutes when a 6 point buck  came right under my stand started across the river when one of my reloads exploded in his chest. luckily he came back to my property rather than continuing across the river. That load was a 95gr sst 6mm rem loaded with 43 gr IMR 4350. Did a wonderful job. A 40 yard shot.