More Food for Thought...

[quickdtoo]

Irrational gunplay in the Wisconsin deer woods

  By Randolph Brandt

  Guns don't kill people. Ignorance, fear and stupidity kill people, and we seem to have a lot of that in the Wisconsin deer woods these days.

  "Given the chance, every Wisconsin hunter would gut one and hang it on a meat pole Š" one self-described "fed up hunter" responded on our
  newspaper's Web page before we took down his xenophobic comments.

  He wasn't talking about deer. He was talking about Hmong folk.

  "Rude, violent lawless people, who suck up our resources. They ruin our hunts every year by killing everything they see, including other hunters.
  This is not the first time Hmongs have killed hunters."

  Not hard to imagine somebody taking a shot at one of 'em, even if he says he was backing away at the time.

  That's what Chai Vang contends happened in his statements to police about last week's confrontation that left six people dead and two wounded.

  By Vang's telling, he was set upon by a group of armed hunters, who cursed him, called him racist names and then shot at him while he was trying  to leave peacefully. Given those circumstances, he very well may have thought it was either kill or be killed.

  That's really not all that hard to imagine either, and doesn't differ all that much from other survivors' accounts.

  The only real questions seem to be who fired first or whether Vang was so mad or scared he felt he needed to empty a couple of clips at
  everybody.

  It still begs the question, why would somebody risk encountering a trespasser with a weapon in the first place? My dad taught me many things,   by instruction and example, and this most recent lack of good sense in the Wisconsin deer woods reminded me of an incident from my childhood in   which my father chased a couple of hunters out of our woods.

  Dad didn't pack a rifle. He didn't call for backup. He didn't curse at the men or call them names. He didn't jump into our '56 Pontiac and charge at
  the trespassers, nor did our neighbors rush to the scene in their DeSotos and Buicks.

  No, he calmly walked unarmed across our back field, approached the men directly, and explained that their shots were scaring his children. He
  quietly asked them to leave, which they did.

  If they hadn't, I imagine he would have just as calmly turned around and walked back to call the game warden or the cops and let them handle it.

  I thought of that example many years later when I heard a commotion next door one night and went outside to witness my neighbor flushing some   kid out of the bushes at gunpoint.

  I stayed calm but was madder than hell and despite my general friendliness toward my neighbor, I told him so.

  What was he thinking? Here some kid was sneaking out through the backlots after his girlfriend's parents came home unexpectedly, and my
  neighbor, hearing the noise in the bushes outside, comes charging out with a revolver.

  Dumb. Irresponsible. Dangerous. That's the kind of behavior most of us responsible gun owners abhor because it just seems to confirm all the
  prejudices of those gun-control nuts who want to take away all our weapons.

  Suppose my neighbor had tripped in the dark and the thing went off? Or worse, he'd actually accosted an armed man and a gunfight broke out in
  my side yard, within a few feet of where my daughter was sleeping in her bedroom? Hey, if somebody breaks into your house, there's nowhere to retreat to, and you've got no other choice, then that's a different story, but you never, never, never, confront a mere trespasser with a weapon.

  Very bad things can happen.

  Randolph D. Brandt is editor of The Journal Times

http://www.journaltimes.com/articles/2004/12/01/opinion/iq_3241773.txt

[Dali Llama]

you never, never, never, confront a mere trespasser with a weapon.

Dali Llama say he respectfully disagree.

[Leverdude]

Its a difficult call to be sure confronting a trespasser. If I can go armed tho I believe I would. Its that responsability thing again. The armed citizen is responsible for his actions. If there had been a gunfight then I guess the guy was right to bring a gun & since he had no way of  knowing it was a kid he did the right thing.
This guys not thinking what might have happened to his daughter had this guy been a rapist or something & not caught by the neghbor.

I also dont think that hunter went there armed to ask Vang to leave. I get the impression he was going to hunt that stand & found him there. The people who came to help remove the trespasser all came unarmed.

[Dali Llama]

Its a difficult call to be sure confronting a trespasser. If I can go armed tho I believe I would. Its that responsability thing again. The armed citizen is responsible for his actions.

Dali Llama say he concur with Leverdude.

[jh45gun]

I also dont think that hunter went there armed to ask Vang to leave. I get the impression he was going to hunt that stand & found him there. The people who came to help remove the trespasser all came unarmed.

From what I can see of it I do not think the guy was even going to hunt the tree stand as the killings took place around 12:30 and this guy was heading to the cabin I bet for lunch and saw Vang in the tree stand. Since he knew every one else was at the cabin for lunch knew that Vang did not belong there and radioed in to make sure. Since he was shot first the others coming to his aid must have figured a hunting accident and did not bring any guns with them. So only a injured hunter shot back and I suppose since he was injured that is why he missed. Also since he did survive and he was the only one with a gun besides Vang It makes you wonder as Vang shot 4 in the back running away to get away from him either on foot or 4 wheelers and out of every one unarmed he stayed away from the guy with the gun after he shot him and concentrated on the ones with out any guns. Nope I think he ment to kill them all and walk away and never get caught only the quick thinking of the ones survivors who wrote down his back tag tripped him up.

[Dali Llama]

So only a injured hunter shot back and I suppose since he was injured that is why he missed.

That be a shame, say Dali Llama...    

[Matt in AK]

Amazing article written by a sheep.  "Why I'd never confront a wolf in my pasture, he might eat me.  I'd just wait for the shepherd to save me.  I'd run away and let someone else risk their neck for me."  I don't mind tellin' ya, that article made me angry.  I'm tired of sheep trying to tell tigers how to live. :evil:

Give Mr Brandt a testosterone shot and be done with it. :eek:

[Dali Llama]

Give Mr Brandt a testosterone shot and be done with it.

Or an estrogen reduction capsule, say Dali Llama! :-D  :-D

[Leverdude]

I also dont think that hunter went there armed to ask Vang to leave. I get the impression he was going to hunt that stand & found him there. The people who came to help remove the trespasser all came unarmed.

From what I can see of it I do not think the guy was even going to hunt the tree stand as the killings took place around 12:30 and this guy was heading to the cabin I bet for lunch and saw Vang in the tree stand. Since he knew every one else was at the cabin for lunch knew that Vang did not belong there and radioed in to make sure. Since he was shot first the others coming to his aid must have figured a hunting accident and did not bring any guns with them. So only a injured hunter shot back and I suppose since he was injured that is why he missed. .

Thats what bothers me the most about this thing. I'v found guys on our land in NY before & always just went over & told them what was what. I had a gun, they had guns but that didnt matter any more than fishing poles woulda. It can be confusing with posted signs all over the place like they are where I hunt & usually its just a guy cutting a corner & everyones pleasant enuff. If one of these guys were set to shoot me I guess they could easy enuff, even tho I was armed as it would've been the furthest thing from my mind. If I did have a chance to return fire I dont think I'd miss but cant really say because thats a situation I'v managed to avoid for 38 years now.

I go to the woods to get away from things like this.

[Dali Llama]

I go to the woods to get away from things like this.

Dali Llama say that unfortunately those of Vang's ilk bring crime to pristine woods. :cry:  :cry:  :cry:

[twodollarpistol]

Give Mr Brandt a testosterone shot and be done with it.

Or an es trogen reduction capsule, say Dali Llama! :-D  :-D

 :agree:  :-D  :-D

[Dali Llama]

Give Mr Brandt a testosterone shot and be done with it.

Or an estrogen reduction capsule, say Dali Llama! :-D  :-D

 :agree:  :-D  :-D

   :grin: