Author Topic: Black Powder Reloads  (Read 967 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jeager106

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 729
Black Powder Reloads
« on: December 04, 2004, 01:56:04 PM »
Here's a question fer ya.
I have a "barn gun" a new Chinese 12 bore with standard 2 3/4" chambers.
I have a large quantity of once fired AA red and greys and a far quantity of AA wads, pluse nitro card, felt, and card wads.
I have 50 pounds of 7's and 6's.
I also have about 20 pounds of Elephant 2fg black.
I don't like it in my rifles.
I have Scheutzen and Swiss, much better black powders for the rifles.
Why not toss in 1 1/4" oz. shot over 90 grains of Elephant 2fg in the AA hulls, and use them for small game in the single shot barn gun?
Thoughts?

Offline Ramrod

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1440
Black Powder Reloads
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2004, 02:29:06 PM »
My first thought is how will you crimp? As you know, blackpowder takes up alot of room. Can you star crimp the AA's and still maintain a decent wad column? I think I would look for some all brass shells, and glue in the overpowder wad.
"Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine." Patti Smith

Offline jeager106

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 729
Black Powder Reloads
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2004, 03:13:31 PM »
Yup. I just looked this up in my Lyman newest ed. of the Black Powder handbook and they show formulas for reloading plastic hulls with up to 102 grains of Elephant 2fg.
Ballistics are around 1000, to 1100 f.p.s which are not far off from modern loads.
Orta kill rabbits and birds.

Offline Ramrod

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1440
Black Powder Reloads
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2004, 04:01:05 PM »
Interesting. My Lyman handbook is from the 70's. No cartridge data. I might have to buy the new one just for that. I have been thinking about loading blackpowder shells for an old Remington damascus barreled double I have. I also have plenty of Elephant. Please post your results if you try it.
"Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine." Patti Smith

Offline fffffg

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 290
  • Gender: Male
Black Powder Reloads
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2004, 03:49:05 AM »
aa hulls work fine for severak shots, but a lot of cleaning for a several shots..  best results with black are with using federal paper hulls, nitro card over powder, and fiber wad to take up space..some kind of lube on felt wad between the two works best..   plastic will start to melt and blow patterns on a hot day.  you will get hard fouling and the cups will slide over this and cause problems somehow alos blowing patterns..  also plastic hulls have too much crimp pressure for good black powder shotgun loads..  you dont want to load, shoot a hull and reload it and let set a long time..  the corrosive black powder fouling will eat at the brass.  making  a weak hull.. 3fg would be better especially in elephant and with lube..    my opinion only..  good luck dave..
montana!, home of the wolf,  deer,mtn goats,sheep, mountain lions, elk, moose and griz...

Offline jeager106

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 729
Black Powder Reloads
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2004, 04:16:26 AM »
I personally would NOT use black powder in a reapeating shotgun as one would have to completely strip and clean the thing, but in my 50 buck single shot barn gun less of a problem.
Agreed that one would be wise to use a lube BETWEEN the wads perhaps.
Sort of a "lube cookie" of sorts.
The plastic wads are o.k. for black accoring to what I've read, but you're right about reusing them without cleaning them.
They should be cleaned before reloading them again.
Everyone that reloads shotshells orta have the latest Lyman Shothsell reloading book.
Also Precision Reloading markets Tom Roosters (sp?) special manuals on steel, heavy shot, bismith, bufferred loads etc.

Offline fffffg

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 290
  • Gender: Male
Black Powder Reloads
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2004, 05:38:39 AM »
i used to shoot competition black powder shotgun..  guys using aa hulls are easy to beat.. 8 rounds on a hot day and they are out..   ive tested  all my target bp loads up to 30 rounds for blown patterns. 5-8  years ago i took a pickup load of patterns to the dump.  respectfully ,  i dont care what the books say, aa hulls will work for short runs, then the plastic starts to melt, black powder is hot..  the wads get hot, and fail (wads)simple as that..  also, i repeat, crimps are too much on plastic wads for black powder..  causes higher start pressures when black should burn up the barrel and increase velosity downbore..  pack the powder not the shot for best muzzeloading patterns.. ..  use 45 to 50 lbs wad pressure..  sure the aa will work fine for starters,  i used them for about a  year.. i got tired of the hulls meltin on hot days.  then used  nitro card in aa hulls . looked like a snake with dinner in its gut.. compressed the diameter of the nitro cards.. bad idea..  respectfully , youv got a load all worked up for your shotgun for hundreds of rounds, and havent busted a cap.. if your a black powder shooter you should realize that all is not as neat and simple as that in black powder shooting..  same with cartrige bp shotguns..   cleaning the bp fouling  and plastic out is real fun.. it builds up in a combination constriciting the bore  and this increases pressures and barrel inconsistencies, ruining patterns,  and comes out on cleaning  like , well youl see..      .  .good luck dave..
montana!, home of the wolf,  deer,mtn goats,sheep, mountain lions, elk, moose and griz...

Offline jeager106

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 729
Black Powder Reloads
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2004, 10:55:00 AM »
You make good sense.
Fed. paper hulls are cheap and available.
I'll give 'em a try.
I have fibre wads and over powder card wads too.
I'm really looking for a way to use up that Elephant and my single shot barn gun would be easy to clean.
I also have a T/C New Englander 12 bore.
Got any good recipies for the front loader?

Offline Ramrod

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1440
Black Powder Reloads
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2004, 11:41:48 AM »
Quote from: jeager106
Everyone that reloads shotshells orta have the latest Lyman Shothsell reloading book.

OOPS, I was talking about my Lyman BLACK POWDER HANDBOOK. Thats why I think I would want some all brass shells, they could be "handloaded" with my muzzleloader data.
As my smoothebore lies in a big pile of unassembled parts, I can't help with loads, except to pass on the old rule of thumb. Use the same measure (volume) for shot and powder for best patterns. As with all rules of thumb, your mileage may vary.
"Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine." Patti Smith

Offline fffffg

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 290
  • Gender: Male
Black Powder Reloads
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2004, 07:55:47 PM »
if tc has choke you will find that to  use  powder, nitro card, 1 /4 inch wool  felt wad with tc lube soaked in it, , shot,  overshot cards.. if full choke fold a slight fold in nitro card  slide home and criss cross fold  with another nitro card over it.. do not shove card in edgeways this can blow patterns.. yhou should have enough lube to make barrel pretty clean after loading, with muzzel loader.. for high speed loads and carfull loading  you can work up to   90 3f in stout gun.. 1 1/8 ounce shot. i like nickel plate shot from balistic products for easy cleaning..  this is about 1100 fps..  pack the powder not the shot..  measure the load height with the rod protruding on yourfingers and be sure it is protruding correct height for EACH  load.. , and pull load if anything is not right.  stout loads will be dangerous if double loaded..cold weather needs more powder   to keep up velocity,(90 grains 3f is max ins 12 gauge good gun) but i use shotcups in cold weather in cylinder bore becose the denser air really spreads paterns.......  if cylinder bore use nitro card over powder and reduce powder to hold patterns tighter and use little bigger shot to increase pennetration and hold patterns together.. 1/4 to 3/8 inch glob of tc lube between card and one  fiber wad  ..get tc lube even on bottom of fiber wad.. you dont want to lube one side of the barrel and not the other..    slide down  fiber wad 1 /2 inch thick for cylinder bore, then shot and over shot card.   about  75-85 grains 2fg or 3fg powder 1 1/4 oz shot... im geussing becouse i shoot 16 gauge smoothborelongstock...  and 12 gauge jug choked flintlock... to tighten patterns use more shot, less powder, larger shot, harder shot,  you can use plastic shotgun   buffer,and  or  use two wraps typing paper around shot in closed bottom shot cup with shot and buffer.  make sure top is open on paper shot cup with over shot card over all( this is for cold weather in cylinder bore... to open  patterns use  chilled(soft)shot, more powder, less shot,  smaller shot, pack the shot.........   i wrap precut paper cups for longer trap shooting distances and ducks during cold weather in smoothbore,  i wrap them around  a tapered dowel that when the cup is removed it will fit abvout halfway into muzzel.. fold the breach end of the shot cup made from precut typeing paper over the end of the dowel....when the cup is in the barrel end put in shot, then buffer if you need it then slide down to top of shot and tear off top of paper would be  over the shot, ram home and put in a over shot card..   this is alot if you have more questions just ask.. ill try to get back here clear up what is not understandable.  be carfull,this can be fun, but dangerous if done wrong.. its  not tough use common scence,work up your loads..  i get good paterns with 16 guage 42 inch smoothbore flintlock using  72-75 grains 3fg, nitro card, glob tc lube on bottome of 1 /2 inch fiber wad,  110 grains equivelent #4 bismuth shot, overshot card..  you can see a photo of me and three greenheads taken many years ago on a very very -20  cold morning jump shooting them with 12 gauge mortimer flintlock.. the mortimer has full jug choke..  pict at http://members.aol.com/illinewek/  in the rouges gallery of mlml group.. if you like muzzeloading join mlml,,  hard core muzeloaders.. great guys.. .. good luck dave schlick  ffffg.
montana!, home of the wolf,  deer,mtn goats,sheep, mountain lions, elk, moose and griz...

Offline kjeff50cal

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 294
Black Powder Reloads
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2004, 05:46:28 PM »
Quote
I have a "barn gun" a new Chinese 12 bore with standard 2 3/4" chambers.


That "barn gun" woundn't be a Norinco would it? What is the barrel length? I have one that came with a 30" barrel (which 11 inches magically fell off to make a handy car-trunk/woods loafing gun).  

kjeff50cal
Ignorance leads us into the darkness, Knowlege leads us out.