Pros and cons of .222 Rem for whitetails

[huntsman]

Let's hear it from those of you who've had experience with this cartridge on whitetails. I know that head/neck shots will work, but what about boiler room shots? Max range and shot limitations? Thanks for your input.

[Thebear_78]

A good behind the shoulder shot will work fine with most heavier 224 caliber bullets. I know of one savage 340 in 222 that has killed over 100 whitetails, most with 50gr SP factory ammo. It just happens to be the rife behind the truck seat and so gets used most by an older guy that I grew up hunting with. The bullet only has to penetrate 2" of rib bone/meat before it hits the void of the lungs/heart region. You just have to precisely place your shots.

I would strongly advise against head shooting deer. I have on three occasions whitnessed the aftermath of headshots gone wrong. A neighbor I used to have was famous for trying head shots all the time. The first occasion was a week after rifle season I jumped up a pretty decent 8pt that had a hanging jaw. Apparently my nieghbor shot a littel low on the head and just blew out the bottom jaw so that it hang at almost a 90 degree angle to the head. It wasn't pretty and the buck could hardly get up to run away, luckily I was rabbit hunting at the time and could put him out of his misery. It hadn't been deer season for 10 days so it had been at least 10 days with a hanging jaw.

The second time was when I noticed a small doe wandering aimlessly in my back field about halfway thru rifle season. It was obvious that somethign was wrong with it. I grabbed my rifle and walked back to see if it was wounded. A good protion of its head was missing from the eyes forward, both eyes were missing and part of the nose. It was still dripping so it must have happened either that day or the night before. One 100gr .243 bullet behind the shoulder ended the ordeal.

The last time was in the late extended doe only season. I heard him shooting in the morning and saw three small does run out of his woodlot and bed down in my back feild. I kind of thought that one of them might have been wounded because of the way it was running. Just to be sure I walked along the property line to see if there was any blood. Sure enough there were drips and some spray of blood. It had been a couple of hours since his shooting and he hadn't made any attempts to track so I figured it would see if it was laying dead out there and drop it off at his place. I jumped it up in the tall grass and was able to get a shot at it at the end of my field, 100gr .243 bullet thru both shoulders did the trick. The whole end of its nose was a soggy mess, looked like the bullet entered about center of the nose and exited at an angle thru the upper jaw/nose bone.

Every time I hear somebody advocating head shots on deer these times come to mind. I actually got into quite a heated arguement with my neighbor over this and we are not longer on speaking terms as a result. In his case it was ego, trying to say he was so good he could head shoot deer with his 270. If I had a dime for every time I heard "clean kill or cleam miss every time, I don't even bother to trackem, cause if they ain't laying there I missed them" The actual vital part of the deers head is very small, and moves around a lot. I'm sure it has happened to work out for a lot of guys, but its a very poor percentage shot and should never be tried for.

[Lawdog]

huntsman,

Two of the worse targets to aim at on deer are the head and neck.  I don’t care how accurate the rifle they are using is.  Way to great a chance to wound and let the deer run off to die later.  Seen it way to many times.  Personally they don't make a .224 centerfire that is suited for the taking of deer(even Pronghorn's which are even smaller).  Sorry I have seen too many deer wounded and lost with .22 centerfires.  I won't let anyone hunt on my property that isn't using at least a .243 Win. loaded with 100 gr. bullets.  I consider this to be the absolute minimum for deer hunting.  The .222 Remington is a great varmint cartridge out to say 275 yards but deer, NO WAY.  By the way a number of states outlaw the use of .22 centerfires for the taking of big game so you best check the local laws in your state.  Lawdog
 

[Chuck White]

I feel that the .222 Remington is a fine cartridge for whitetails if you:

1.  Don't take a running shot!
2.  Put your cross-hairs on the rib cage, not the head!
3.  Limit your shots to 150-200 yards Maximum!
4.  Use 50 to 55 grain spire point bullets!

Don't believe everything you hear about the .22 centerfires being inadequate for whitetails!  I have never seen a deer hit and lost by anyone in our group who was using a 22 caliber centerfire!  I have seen many a deer dropped in it's tracks by the little 22 Hornet, using 45 grain spire point bullets!

[hedditch]

I must agree with everyone else who has said the 222 Rem is not really a deer cartridge and head and neck shots are not advisable for the reasons they mentioned.  A boiler room shot is questionable also.  A 222 past 200 yds starts breathing hard.  It will kill gophers and such but I found a rock chuck not hit in the head at that distance will crawl off and die.  The 220 swift alows a little longer shots before this happens.  A .243 on the other hand will pick up and move a chuck out to 350 yds.  A 400+ yds shot will kill the chuck but not move him to where one can see it from that distance.  A whitetail is a much bigger animal.  Transform this information to a deer.  Please use a different larger caliber rifle for deer and use the varmint cartridges for smaller game.  I am sure glad you asked first instead of just going out and doing it.

[NYH1]

Most of our "hunting experts" say you should have at least 1000 ft. lbs. of energy at the "point of impact" to kill white-tail deer size game cleanly! The 222 Remington only has that at the muzzle, and at 100 yards it only has about 750-850 ft. lbs.! I would defiantly use sometime bigger! Personally I think the 243 Win. is the smallest cartridge someone should use for white-tail. I wouldn't use a 243 Win. for white-deer myself. Mainly because I have better cartridges for deer hunting. I have a 308 Win., 280 Rem., 35 Rem., 356 Win., and a 444 Mar. The 444 Mar. I use for black bear and wild boar, the 356 Win. I gave to my father! I could and would use either of them for deer if I wanted to! If all I had was a 222 Remington and had to feed my family.....then I would use it. Other then that I wouldn't. Just my opinion!

[Judson]

.22s for deer?    Cartridges are like tools it is not that you can not drive a 12 penny nail with a screw driver but a hammer is the right tool for the job!   .22 center fires are great for varmints but marginal at best for deer.    If you use one then you have to place your shots very well and pass up many shots that are not perfect and live with those which run off and we do not find.    I am not willing to do this!!!!    The cartridge we choose for deer hunting should not be based on our ego and shooting ability, that is reserved for paper targets.    When choosing a cartridge for hunting we should opt for the cartridge which will ensure a clean kill with a well placed shot and give us some margin for error as especially in hunting situations defecation happens.
    For the deer we have up here in Maine I believe the .243 is marginal and though legal any .22 cal (up here the .22 mag is legal for deer) should be  restricted to varmint class game or smaller.    There is no reason to use a .22 for deer when there are so many other cartridges much more suited for the job.

[Coyote Hunter]

Colorado regulates the minimum size to be a .243" (6mm) fore big game.  Like some others here, I feel this, with heavy bullets, is the absolute minimum acceptable for our deer (mulies and whitetails).  

That said, deer vary in size by location.  Some of the coastal deer I've seen would fall quite well to a centerfire .22.  Then again, I've had dogs that were bigger.

For myself, a swift, clean kill is the goal.  To me that means bigger, heavier bullets that are well constructed for the velocity they are used at.  I'll save my .22-250 for the song dogs and prairie rats.

[skb2706]

Have to agree....here in Colorado we have deer that go easily over 300lbs. A far different animal than some of those southern deer that don't weigh more than a pair of shoes.

Pros for using a .222 Rem. for the task = none

Cons for using a .222 Rem. for the task = there must be a thousand better suited chamberings so why would one use the very most marginal regardless if its legal or not.

[The Cast Bullet Kid]

Hi all.
In the early part of the 1900's through to the late 60's or so here in New Zealand wild deer were culled by government employed shooters (cullers) as the number had reached such vast quantities they were obliterating the native bush.
Early on in the piece the thick end of the deer cullers carrier almost exclusively Lee Enfield .303 British cal. ex mil. rifles cut down as that was what there were lots of and ammo too was plentiful.
Later on with the emergence of the .222 Rem. the vast majority of deer cullers converted to this for a number of reasons.  1) they could carry more ammo for the same given weight, 2) the deer were shot mostly in the bush at close range ie: 30-40 yards, 3) the cullers were so familar with their rifles and game that this was all they needed, 4) the ammo was cheap, 5) skins, for those who recovered them, never displayed large exit holes.
I understand that the neck shot was the shot of choice too.

[skb2706]

Again far different than the guy who is hunting deer out on the plains....one time a year....shots maybe in excess of 200 yds. at a buck that could easily go 325lbs. What would possibly possess someone go hunt deer with a marginal at best round under those conditions just because it can be done. And the motive would be ?

[2520]

Agree with the majority.  Because it can be done is not sufficient reasoning that it should be done.  .22 centerfires are not good big game cartridges.  I used to know an old fellow who filled his tag every year with a 25-20; usually with a head shot and at 25 yds or so.  Still not a good idea.  There are many others that I know are used including 32-20, 25-35, .30 Carbine, and .410 shotgun to name a few that are really not up to the task.  Like the man said," Use enough gun".

[earschplitinloudenboomer]

Posted answers, by far, lean toward common sense. I love .22 calibre, rimfire or centerfire. They are capable of killing white tail deer, but short of a handi-cap which restricts recoil (EXAMPLE: left handed shooter with heart problem or pacemaker) there are just too many CONS.

[irkjr]

The .22 cal limitations are obvious, however I will give you my one recent experience with a .223 on a doe.  My 6 yr. old son wanted to kill his first deer this past season.  I thought he was ready, so I loaded some 60 gr. Nosler Partitions at a fairly fast velocity, mounted a red dot on a short Contender barrel, and took him to our range.  He shot a deer sized target well, putting bullets in the chest where he was told at about 50 yards.  I have a huge stand built with my kids in mind, complete with shooting windows, so off we go hunting.  Two bucks and one doe end up in range, but he shot over the first buck.  Both bucks bolt, but the doe just stands there.  He hits her at about 75 yards.  She goes 50 yards and falls dead.  Autopsy shows perfect double lung shot with damage comparable to a .243.  Now, if he mis-hits the deer, there are problems.  But a proper bullet at high velocity with proper placement is lethal.  I ONLY used a .223 because of his small stature.  Great excitement, and my 13 yr. old videoed the hunt!

[John R.]

I suppose you can go bear hunting with a sling shot, but I would't advise it . Neither would I advise deer hunting with 22's. They will work but are a poor choice at best. There are to many varibles in deer hunting to ethically use 22 calibers. (I know they will work under ideal conditions, but we can't guarentee ideal conditions.) By the way I know a man that killed a doe with a Benjamin 22 cal. air rifle. I don't recomend them either.

[Bad Bob]

I feel that the .222 Remington is a fine cartridge for whitetails if you:

1.  Don't take a running shot!
2.  Put your cross-hairs on the rib cage, not the head!
3.  Limit your shots to 150-200 yards Maximum!
4.  Use 50 to 55 grain spire point bullets!

Don't believe everything you hear about the .22 centerfires being inadequate for whitetails!  I have never seen a deer hit and lost by anyone in our group who was using a 22 caliber centerfire!  I have seen many a deer dropped in it's tracks by the little 22 Hornet, using 45 grain spire point bullets!

     

The record big buck in our county in Missouri was shot with a .222 back in the 70's and it still stands.  Most of that bunk about rifles and calibers to me is down to the man pulling the trigger and doing the hunting. IMO

[skb2706]

Why would that somehow make it a good idea ?

[IowaBuckHunter]

In my opinion- way too small of cartiridge.  
Although since I live in Iowa and rifle hunting is a bit of a no-no, Balistically a .222 is too light.  I personally wouldn't use any .224 cal rifle to take down a deer.  If I did, it would be a 22-250- Good velocity with awesome ballistic coefficieint.  In my opinion the best rounds for deer are the .243, .243 WSSM (Awesome for deer with the 95 gr. bulet), 25-06, and the very accurate 257 weatherby.  270 and 30-06 are good too, but really, How dead must you kill a deer?

[crffl1911]

Most of our "hunting experts" say you should have at least 1000 ft. lbs. of energy at the "point of impact" to kill white-tail deer size game cleanly!

If this is true, then most deer killed with a handgun are mistaken.  :eek:  The .222 has more energy than a 44 mag.!  Yet, no one disputes the awesome killing power of the 44 mag.!  The problem with the .22 centerfires is the bullet construction.  If you can get the .222 pill inside the chest cavity, whatever you shoot is going down.  Unfortunately, most .22 bullets are made to come unglued at the least resistance.  If you use a .222, use the Nosler Partition, Failsafe, etc. and only take side shots into the chest.

[IowaBuckHunter]

hey 1911- hate to burst yer bubble, but a 44 mag has on average aobut 200 more lbs of energy over a 222.  but like you said, it is the make-up of the bullet that counts, and that is why the 222 is a poor choice becuase it is designed for rapid expansion.  steer clear of the 224 cals for deer, it is to big of risk on wounding big deer.  bump up to a 24 cal

[buffalobob]

As my son was growing up I, like another poster thought  that maybe a 224 would  be alright for a couple of years as his deer hunting gun.  So I feild tested myself the 225 Win with both Speer 70 grs and Nosler partitions .  Neither deer got away, but I concluded that it requires near perfect shot placement which is not what a beginning shooter is capable of doing (As with the above poster,  my sons first shot was over the back of a 8 pt buck but with the larger caliber I was less worried ) and most of us so called experts have bad days too.

[longwalker]

I am not the first and won't be the last, but It all comes down to marksmanship. Place the bullet where it needs to be and there is no problem. If you are a patient hunter you could use just about anything. The problem of course comes when the hunt is on and we get excited, looking down range at a big deer moving through the woods or pasture. If you miss your mark and your little bullet hits shoulder bone. The result will be a fast moving, hard to hit, jumping, falling, dodging, target.

That is why some need to use bigger bullets. If a 222 is all you have and meat on the table is what you need. Choose your shots and commit to your shots. There is no excuse for lost game when rifle hunting. If you have to think about the shot, it's to far away.

 Thats how I do it out here where the deer and antelope play.

Longwalker

[DakotaElkSlayer]

I am glad I saw this post...  Yesterday, I was thumbing through the Barnes relaoding manual and was suprised to see that they had .22 Hornet and .22-250 bullets that they recommended for deer.  The author of the Hornet section told of what a great round it was for African plains animals....pictures of dead warthogs, impala, and even a zebra taken with the little Hornet.
  Ya, the .22 MAY be a little on the small side for deer, but I am not to sure.  Seems to me that a lot of people like to go overgunned for deer to make up for poor shooting.  I am amazed at all the people who use 300 mags for whitetail. :-D

Jim

[skb2706]

there are so many errors in your Barnes reloading manual that anything they wrote about hunting deer with a .22 cal bullet could be categorized as less than accurate. Go to their website and check it out.......all the corrections are there.

[beemanbeme]

I knew a little-old-lady (lol) in Tenn that each fall cropped a deer in her orchard with a single shot .22LR.  Does this example of one mean that the .22LR is a viable deer cartridge?  Hardly.  The LOL herself would tell you that.  
Also, the "if its your only rifle and you need meat on the table" is kinda thin.   If you're that hard up, best sell the rifle and buy much more meat than is on the average whitetail.  And use your hunting time to find a job.
Finally, having a 6 year old kid sniping at deer with a .222 is a bit too vicarious for me.  How was that legal?  I thought kids had to have a "hunter safety course" cert before they could hunt and that there were age limits involved?

[DakotaElkSlayer]

I emailed Barnes about the .22-250 and .22 Hornet for deer.  Here's my reply:

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the email. Yes this information is correct. The Make a Wish
foundation took some kids out in Idaho last year and took a nice mule deer
at 300 yards with a 53 gr. .223. The shot broke both of the muley's front
shoulders.

We Aim to please, reloading is a great hobby, enjoy it.

[DannoBoone]

Living in Iowa has its advantages, but it prohibits one from CF deer hunting.
Because of having absolutely no use for slugs, I hunt with a ML using the
lightest, flat trajectory bullets my rifles will accurately shoot. Many a time I
have gotten flack from ML "experts" that a 200gr bullet is just not enough
for humanely putting down a deer with a ML. Were it they could have seen
the buck put down by my Savage with a 200gr SST last fall. It was an
immediate "drop dead" in his tracks. Several others have fallen with a
200gr bullet out of my Encore. One of them is hanging on my wall.

One may say, "So what has THAT got to do with this thread?" I"m reading
the same mentality. While the .222 is no doubt "marginal" and shouldn't be
used at ranges over 100yds, it has plenty of killing power within its limits
with a well-placed shot.

To make a blanket statement that no .224 cartridge is good for deer hunting
is close-minded nonsense. During 35yrs of hunting, my Dad and brother
have taken over 50 deer with their 22-250's using Hornady 55gr SP's. All
shots were in the lung area and no deer went more than 50yds. I was
with my brother when he got his first deer.....he made an awesome 400yd
shot. Although the buck stayed on his feet for a few seconds, he dropped
where he stood. Most of their shots were within 200yds, but a few were
300 & beyond.  Many others in Nebraska use the 22-250 as well as the
220 Swift for their deer rifles.  We all have a right to our own opinions,
but some of the .224's have proven themselves in the field.......and that's
no opinion........it's just plain fact.

[earschplitinloudenboomer]

Dannoboone;
  I have other rifles to use, but I agree, good bullet placement from a mild caliber, to me, is better than a gut shot from a flinch. I have humanely harvested whitetail deer with: .22 long rifle, .22 hornet, .221 fireball, .222, 223, .243, .270, .30-30, .308, 30-06, .50 cal CVA inline (300 gr. XTP in a sabot) and a compound bow. Oh yeah...the ones with .224...they're still dead!!!

[kombi1976]

Mmmm, shot placement is important and you can achieve desirable results with a .222 but why risk it? :|
So you might flinch with a heavier cal but with a 257 roberts, 6.5x55 or 7mm-08 that's unlikely.
I've always believed in the maxim "use enough gun".
If you need to ask them .222 probably isn't enough.
I respect the experience of others like earschplitinloudenboomer but he doesn't have to take the shot, you do.
I know I wouldn't use anything that small.
A Roberts is the smallest cartridge I'd comfortably use for most deer.

[JohnClif]

Will the .222 kill deer? Most definitely. Can it be depended on to stop them with less than perfect bullet placement? Nope.

Look... Karamojo Bell killed an elephant with a Colt Woodsman .22 LR pistol. Does that mean the .22 LR is adequate for elephant? His regular elephant rifle was a 7x57 Mauser. Does that mean the 7x57 is adequate for elephant? No, in both cases.

Culling and sport hunting are two different activities. The cullers aren't taking long shots, difficult shots, or shots on running game. They pick their shot and if they can't get the shot they want they move on to the next animal, or wait. Cullers can hunt at night with lights. Etc. The game doesn't get a fair chance because culling is not about sportsmanship.

Using a .222 or .223 is like using a .25 ACP for self-defense. Sure, it will kill your attacker but will it stop them? Sure, the .22 centerfires will kill a deer when everything goes right... but when anything goes wrong you have a wounded deer that will be very hard to track.

Why not use a .243? Almost no recoil, and sufficient for any deer inside of 200 yards. Or, a .270? Very little recoil and sufficient for deer out to 350 yards. If recoil is a problem, then get a heavier gun. I've never understood the people who want to buy a 6 lb '06 and then complain about recoil. The M1 Garand weighs about 9 lbs and our fathers and grandfathers carried the things across Europe. Today's military snipers carry rifles that weigh anywhere from 14 to 19 lbs, and they appreciate the weight and the qualities it brings to accurate shooting. Why can't we carry an 8.5 lb rifle (scoped and loaded) without the weight killing us?

Use enough gun, and make sure the weight is commensurate with the cartridge's power so the recoil is manageable.