Sailor refuses to serve

[Gun Runner]

Who is this guy trying to B/S, did he think he had joined the local yatch club
instead of the navy?

SAN DIEGO (AP) - A Navy petty officer opposed to the war in Iraq refused to board his ship Monday as sailors and Marines deployed for the Persian Gulf.

Petty Officer 3rd Class Pablo Paredes, 23, said he has opposed the war since its inception. Until recently, the weapons-control technician said he did not feel he had a direct role in the war. Two weeks ago, however, he said he was involuntarily transferred to the amphibious transport USS Bonhomme Richard, which ferries Marines to Iraq.

"I don't want to be a part of a ship that's taking 3,000 Marines over there, knowing a hundred or more of them won't come back," he said. "I can't sleep at night knowing that's what I do for a living."

Paredes of the New York City borough of the Bronx said he joined the Navy in 2000 and has 20 months left on his six-year enlistment. He said he was stationed previously in Japan.

He said he was young and naive when he joined the Navy and "never imagined, in a million years, we would go to war with somebody who had done nothing to us."

Paredes was at the ship's pier at Navy Base San Diego Monday as Expeditionary Strike Group Five left for its tour in the Pacific and Indian oceans.

Military officials did not immediately comment on his actions. He could face a court-martial, a dishonorable discharge and possible time in a military jail.

He said he hopes his protest might inspire other sailors, soldiers and Marines to refuse to take part in the war.

"I know other people are feeling the same way I am, and I'm hoping more people will stand up," he said. "They can't throw us all in jail."


Gun Runner

[Graybeard]

"They can't throw us all in jail."

Why not? We have lots of room left to build more prisons if needed. This turkey is just afraid of being one of those who don't come back. He shouldn't have joined if he didn't want to be in harm's way. He should spend the rest of his time in prison and then a bit more after that for good measure. Then a dishonorable discharge which will follow him for the rest of his pitiful life.

It's not his job to make policy and decide when we go to war with whom. He's not yet at that pay grade. Besides he needs to run for office to make those decisions.

[williamlayton]

Boy am I gonna catch whatfer on thisun.
First- he should have completed his obligation. He should have considered all the possibilities before he enlisted.
I am sure there have been many who have not enlisted because of disagreement with the war over there. Remember Viet Nam.
It is a tough call when you are diametrically opposed to any policy which may involve the taking of human life, especially if you disagree with the policy of the war.
This is not a new concern or a new thinking boys. Been this way since the beginning of time. Sometimes you just have to take a stance on what you are convicted of and hang the consequences. That is what he is going to have to do, and I hope he has really considered all the facets here.
Blessings

[Dali Llama]

It is a tough call when you are diametrically opposed to any policy which may involve the taking of human life, especially if you disagree with the policy of the war.

Like Honorable Graybeard say, Paredes not at pay grade to make such decision, respond Dali Llama. :twisted:  :x  :evil:

[twodollarpistol]

I may be wrong, but as I understand it, refusing to obey a direct order in war time is punishable by death. If so, they need to order him to board ship and do his assigned duty and if he refuses, shoot the SOB. No prison space needed. Protest denied.
 This may seem harsh, but I perceive this jerk as a coward trying to hide, and I have no tolerance for cowardice. :evil:

[Dali Llama]

as I understand it, refusing to obey a direct order in war time is punishable by death. If so, they need to order him to board ship and do his assigned duty and if he refuses, shoot the SOB. No prison space needed. Protest denied.
 

Albeit rather draconian, such response would have desired deterrent effect, say Dali Llama. :-)

[jh45gun]

He is probably like many who joined the service in peace time looking for bennies never thinking they may be called to fight. This clown is no better than the useless POS's  that is suing the US because their enlistments are being extended. Would not supprise me if they were in the military for the same reason bennies and not expecting to be called to fight.  :x  :x  :x

[Mikey]

jh - I think you're right in the 10-ring there buddy.  This guy reminds me of a the few weakminded who opposed the first Gulf War - it was as though they had joined for the benefits without realizing they might have to serve their country in combat.  I always wondered what goes through their heads when they sign up - and now I know - no logical thought at all.  Just my 2 cents worth.  Mikey.

[twodollarpistol]

But dont they look cute in there little soldier suits? :wink:  Not to be confuised with the uniforms worn by our fighting men and women who are serving and have served this country with honor and dignity, not to mention plain old fashioned guts.

[Wlscott]

I was one of the POS's who joined the army for the bennies.

My unit was put on alert for Iraq in late July of '90.  I didn't want to go.  Nobody in my unit wanted to go.  But we did go, and we did fight.  We followed orders and did what we where told to do and I can tell you, it wasn't ferrying troops across the Gulf.  

When you VOLUNTEER for duty, you do it with the full knowlege that Uncle Sam may ask you to do things that you don't want to do.  But, you VOLUNTEERED to do them, so you do them.  

I have no respect for these guys who become "Consciences Objectors" to the duty that they are asked to perform.  

Unfortunatly, they'll probably give him an Article 15, take his rank, take some money and put him under house arrest, then give him an honorable discharge.  Meanwhile, the Marine who shot at a "supposed wounded" insurgent will get the book thrown at him.

[doc_kreipke]

I have a nephew in the Army who participated in that recent little exercise in Falluja with the Marines. Every now and then I get to talk to him via his cellphone.

He had enlisted not to fight but because he didn't want to go to college but still wanted to pick up some skills plus bennies. Being in Iraq is the last thing he wants to be doing with his life right now. One time on the phone, he even took a verbal dig at Pres. Bush.

But ya know what? Despite his personal feelings, he sucks it up and obeys orders. Does his duty. Serves his country. Watches out for his buddies.

And I, for one, am damn proud of him.

Opportunistic shirkers like said sailor really annoy me.

[Graybeard]

Boy am I gonna catch whatfer on thisun.
First- he should have completed his obligation. He should have considered all the possibilities before he enlisted.
I am sure there have been many who have not enlisted because of disagreement with the war over there. Remember Viet Nam.
It is a tough call when you are diametrically opposed to any policy which may involve the taking of human life, especially if you disagree with the policy of the war.
This is not a new concern or a new thinking boys. Been this way since the beginning of time. Sometimes you just have to take a stance on what you are convicted of and hang the consequences. That is what he is going to have to do, and I hope he has really considered all the facets here.
Blessings

Let's just classify this one as a bit of "light flack" William.

If he has problems with war in general or the taking of lives he should never have enlisted. Once enlisted he now has an obligation to himself, his country and his fellow troops to do what he agreed to do when he signed up. It is not the place of the troops to evaluate the merits of the actions. It is merely his duty to follow orders until his tour is over and he can then quit. No one forced him to join. He did it voluntarily. Protest now is not appropriate.

I may be wrong, but as I understand it, refusing to obey a direct order in war time is punishable by death. If so, they need to order him to board ship and do his assigned duty and if he refuses, shoot the SOB. No prison space needed. Protest denied.
This may seem harsh, but I perceive this jerk as a coward trying to hide, and I have no tolerance for cowardice.

I like it. Wish I'd thought of that.

[Dali Llama]

If he has problems with war in general or the taking of lives he should never have enlisted. Once enlisted he now has an obligation to himself, his country and his fellow troops to do what he agreed to do when he signed up. It is not the place of the troops to evaluate the merits of the actions. It is merely his duty to follow orders until his tour is over and he can then quit. No one forced him to join. He did it voluntarily. Protest now is not appropriate.

Dali Llama say he concur wholeheartedly with Graybeard.

[williamlayton]

Does it have to be a declared war? A conflict such as this, and I do not take it lightly, not being declared may have different consequences. I dunno.
He shoulda thunk bout all this afore he did what he done and I am hopin he done thunk bout the consequences of what he is doin fore now.
He done pu hisownself in more harms way than if he had just gone ahead.
Still a person has got to do what he has got to do, and, accept the consequences fer it.
Blessings

[Dali Llama]

a person has got to do what he has got to do, and, accept the consequences fer it.

That be true, say Dali Llama.

[jh45gun]

I was one of the POS's who joined the army for the bennies.

My unit was put on alert for Iraq in late July of '90.  I didn't want to go.  Nobody in my unit wanted to go.  But we did go, and we did fight.  We followed orders and did what we where told to do and I can tell you, it wasn't ferrying troops across the Gulf.  

When you VOLUNTEER for duty, you do it with the full knowlege that Uncle Sam may ask you to do things that you don't want to do.  But, you VOLUNTEERED to do them, so you do them.  

I have no respect for these guys who become "Consciences Objectors" to the duty that they are asked to perform.  

Unfortunatly, they'll probably give him an Article 15, take his rank, take some money and put him under house arrest, then give him an honorable discharge.  Meanwhile, the Marine who shot at a "supposed wounded" insurgent will get the book thrown at him.

If you read my post I called the guys suing the US  POS not the guys who joined for bennies as you are right a lot joined for that reason and if called and they serve I do not have a problem with that but to bitch and sue the US because things are not going their way is wrong as they should have looked at all the consequences before signing the dotted line.

[Wlscott]

Once enlisted he now has an obligation to himself, his country and his fellow troops to do what he agreed to do when he signed up.

That's the worst part Bill.  Now, if he gets out of it somehow, someone else is going to have to pull his weight.  That may not be as big a deal on a boat, but in combat, the worst thing you can do is let down your buddy's.  That's exactly what he's doing.

If you read my post I called the guys suing the US POS not the guys who joined for bennies

jh45gun, I didn't mean that as a jab.  I was just using it as a lead in to say what was on my mind.  But, you are right, I did misread it.  

The point is, I joined for college money and to travel around and jump out of airplanes.  I ended up in combat.....and even though I didn't like it, I did what I had to do.  This guy volunteered just like I did, and he has no valid reason to refuse to go to combat.

[Matt in AK]

Two words -- Keel Haul

[Dali Llama]

Two words -- Keel Haul

:?  :?  :?

[Matt in AK]

To haul under the keel of a ship, by ropes attached to the yardarms on each side. It was formerly practiced as a punishment in the Dutch and English navies  :shock: (dictionary.com)....an antiquated form of punishment for wayward mariners...  The captain of the ship, as a punishment, would order the sailor keel-hauled.  Tied to a rope, the sailor is drug underwater from one side of the ship to the other.  With the attendant barnacles, the punishment could be fatal.  Heck of a motivational tool I'd say :wink:

Ain't got much time for shirkers, cowards, and malingerers.  Someone not fulfilling his obligations is bad enough.  Want to get mad?  Know that if this boy doesn't go to war some other man will do so in his place.

[crustaceous]

Come on give the kid a break. He's just positioning himself to be the Democratic presidential candidate in 25 years  :grin:

[NYH1]

When they do get him aboard.......maybe they can have a boating accident at sea! :shock:

[Gun Runner]

New York, I beleive the correct political term is a Blanket Party, or He Fell Down a Ladder! I would send his sorry a$$ to Levenworth with about a 10 yr stay, he would find he would have been better off helping transporting troops
and just keeping his mouth shut.

Gun Runner

[Dali Llama]

I beleive the correct political term is a Blanket Party

Now you're a talkin', say Dali Llama! :grin:  :grin:

[twodollarpistol]

I beleive the correct political term is a Blanket Party

Now you're a talkin', say Dali Llama! :grin:  :grin:

Watch it Dali...Your mean streak is begining to show  :wink: :-D  :-D

[Dali Llama]

I beleive the correct political term is a Blanket Party

Now you're a talkin', say Dali Llama! :grin:  :grin:

Watch it Dali...Your mean streak is begining to show  :wink: :-D  :-D

 

[TOMMYY01]

I have only one thing to say! When you take the oath, you are agreeing to do what the military is all about. They are fighting men and women and in no way diplomats(dips period). They are taught and trained to kill if necessary. Saying something else after you joined, is putting your team in jeopardy. If you don't want to get life's priorities in order, then DON'T VOLUNTEER!
                                                                    tommy

[Bigdog57]

  A weapons tech on a "Gator Freighter"?  What the heck has this boy got to worry about!?  He'll get as much action as the stoker on a diesel engine.  Mammaries on a boar hog.
Sheesh . . . Me and my shipmates didn't like the idea of sailing across Kadaffy's "line of death" in the early eighties either - but we did it (and the bugger didn't show!).  A wise old Frog (SEAL) once said - "you don't have to like it, but you do just have to do it!"
So this young idealistic idiot (I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, and maybe he actually has an issue with war) wants to risk doing time in Leavenworth over a personal viewpoint?  STUPID.
He's as bad as that Marine Reservist last year who seemed to never realize a Marine may have to actually GO TO WAR!  Where do the recruiters did up these no-loads?  Training dollars are being wasted.

[powderman]

Examples need to be made of people like him. Harsh punisments are in order, too much of this crap goes on. Left wingers and dumcraps should NEVER be allowed in the military. POWDERMAN.  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x

[big medicine]

He is a non-hacking pantie waste!  Oh I've changed my mind, can I go home now. I remember when the Gulf War was going on and some of the people in the reserves were crying that they couldnt go, I'm a single mother I shouldnt have to go, ect ect. they never complained when they were drawing a check sitting on their asses. what do these people think? I joined the Navy in 1981 as a Corpsman and spent 5 out of 7 years attached to the Marines. I had to do a lot of crap that "I didnt want to do" a couple times I wondered just what in the hell I got my self into. I saw my friends killed with these BS "peace keeping" missions. A man has to be smart enough to pick his fights. I remember one night disobeying an order from a bird Col.  I had an injured Marine that would have died, I went over the Col's head and got the job done. I was willing to take what ever came from that, but I did my job. As it turned out the kid lived and I kept my stripes. Like Wlscott said the worst thing you can do is to let your buddies down. I have no respect for his type.