Need opinions on coyote rifles

[outdoorz4me]

Hi all, I'm new to coyote hunting, it seems like we have a lot of them in my area. I will be hunting with my 2 sons. My oldest has an AR-15. My youngest is still at home with me. I just bought a Savage in 243 which has a 3-9X40 scope on it. The savage shoots fine and I know the 243 will really put a coyote down. I intend to shoot Winchester 55 grain Ballistic Tips in the 243. My question is that I need to buy another coyote rifle for myself as my youngest wants to shoot the 243. I already have a 3-12X44 scope for my second rifle, I just need to pick a rifle. I'm considering another savage 10g with wood stock accu-trigger and standard barrel in either 223 or 22-250, a Savage 12fv or a Ruger MK77VT in 223, 22-250 or 204. I am attracted to 223 for the cheap, readily available, and wide variety of Ammo, however I may encounter some 200 yard shots. Also I'm not sure I want or need a heavy barrel. Please share your thoughts and experiences on the subject. Oh yeah, I would love to have a Tikka T3 hunter but it seems that some distributors are out of stock. Thanks for the help in advance.

[Jerry Lester]

As far as caliber choice, the 223 will do all you need on a coyote up to 250+ yards.

On the rifle choice, you mentioned a lot of heavier/longer rifles. On a coyote/predator rifle all that extra weight, and length becomes a hinderance more often than not. If you're actually "calling" predators, most of your shots will be well inside 100 yards(most of mine are around 40-60), so super accuracy isn't a factor as much as a quick pointing, light, and easy handling rifle.

My calling rifles are a 1894C 357 magnum(open sights), and a Ruger 77/Hornet topped with a 6x weaver. If I'm hunting more open terrain, I'll occasionally take my 77 MK-II 223 topped with a 6x42 Leupold in case I "have" to shoot a bit farther.

If I were to start using the 223 for most of my calling, I'd buy one of the Ruger 77 MK-II compact rifles with the shorter barrel, which in my opinion is just about as "perfect" as it gets for a factory calling rifle.

[outdoorz4me]

Jerry how is the accuracy from a standard Ruger MKII in 223? I agree that a standard rifle is a better choice. I think I've narrowed it down to either a standard Savage or Ruger Wood/Blue. What are your thoughts on this? I like the looks of the Ruger, I like the Accutrigger of the Savage and it would make a good mate to my Savage 243. Yes I will be calling them. Also what do you think of the 357 as a coyote round, and what about the 44 magnum in a lever action?

[indeeptrouble]

Welcome to the art of coyote hunting. In your post you questioned the caliber that would be the most effective. There are several things to consider when buying a new rifle. For example the amount of money you are willing to spend, ammunition cost and availability, style of rifle, and of course the effectiveness of the load. Personally I prefer to use the smallest effective caliber for the hunt. I have 2 stainless steel bull barreled varmint rifles and would not buy anything other than a bull barrel. One of these rifles is a Ruger M77 MKII chambered in 22-250 and the other is a model 70 Win Heavy Varmint (They aren't kidding about the heavy part, it weighs in at over 11lbs) chambered in 223. Let me tell you something about the 223 you probably already know -  They are cheap, versatile, effective, fairly flat and pretty fast. Both of these are set up for prairie dogs but double as coyote/deer/target/anything guns. It has been a couple of years, and since then the scope has been bumped, but that 223 was sighted in for 300yds and could pattern about the size of a 50 cent piece. The same is also true for that 22-250. It was because of those two guns that I will never own anything without a bull barrel. Enough about that.
     Another important thing to consider is the size of the hole, both in and out. When shooting prairie dogs (p-dogs) you want a rapidly expanding bullet that is going to make the little bugger POP. But when shooting for fur you still want enough expansion to cause severe damage and also enough so there is no exit wound. Hornady (out of Grand Island Nebr) makes a 'V MAX' bullet (amongst others) and this is what we shoot at deer through my BLR chambered in 243. These little 75 grain ballistic tip babies go in and don't come out. Last year during the gutting we noticed a hole the size of a softball through the lungs, an entry wound but no exit. This is what you want. They make all different calibers and weights plus (according to Hornady) they have less drag since the tip of the bullet is closer to a point than say a hollow or spire point. This (they say) makes them more accurate. The problem with ballistic tips (Hornady, Speer, Nosler, or other mfg) is they are so dang expensive to buy loaded. The cheaper alternative is handloading. BUT if you don't intend to shoot hundreds of rounds of ballistic tips then just buy a box and save them for special occasions. I must add this also - When you sight in your new rifle (which, by the way, is easier with a bore sighter) remember the velocity and wt of the shells and try to use these every time you go hunting. Ten or 20 grains may not sound like much but it can be the difference between a hit and a miss.
    Back to the task at hand - Rifle selection. A 223 would be a easy choice since the AR is chambered in 223 BUT if you are like me I don't like to have 2 rifles of the same caliber. This way (I believe) they are more specialized. Take, for example, my 223 vs the 22-250. The 223 is a great shorter range rifle (lets say up to 250 yds) but lacks the speed and trajectory of the 22-250 at longer distances. Granted, if you call the coyotes in there should rarely be a shot over 250 yds. If you are consistently taking long shots maybe revise your tactics.
    Brand selection. They are hundreds of rifle mfg's in the world today, including the ones that have been around for years. Personally, I am Not a fan of the Savage rifles but to like the Remington, Winchester and Ruger rifles. They just feel better. I noticed in a recent issue of the Shotgun News that CZ recently released some new models but they looked a little pricey and were limited by the caliber selection (I think they were only WSM's) Saying that Keep in mind the new 204 Ruger. Reviews say WOW. But being new that means $$ in rifle and ammunition costs. There is nothing wrong with buying a used rifle as long as you know what to look for.

Hope this helps
Tom

[Camel 23]

outdoorz4me, I had one of the Ruger MK-II compacts in the .223 and it would shoot 1/2" groups at one hundred yards all day long (with handloads).  That is one gun I really regret getting rid of.  As Jerry said I think it would be a perfect coyote gun.

[Lawdog]

outdoorz4me,

I intend to shoot Winchester 55 grain Ballistic Tips in the 243.

Question if you please.  Are you planning on saving hides?  Lawdog
 

[outdoorz4me]

Lawdog, I haven't checked to see if there is a local fur buyer or what they might pay for a hide. Honestly my main concern right now is to thin them out on our family's farm. Two night ago I was over there just after sundown and heard at least 8-10 of them howling and yipping it up less than 200 yards from the house. We have rabbit, deer, quail, and turkey there, I want to protect their young. Also I know for a fact that the yotes had a nice litter of pups this summer, they are just getting to be too many of them there. So far I agree with what most of you are saying. I too like to use the smallest caliber practical for a humane kill. I am an experienced hunter and a rather good shot, I do my homework. Thanks for sharing, and keep the good advice coming please.

[Jerry Lester]

Jerry how is the accuracy from a standard Ruger MKII in 223? I agree that a standard rifle is a better choice. I think I've narrowed it down to either a standard Savage or Ruger Wood/Blue. What are your thoughts on this? I like the looks of the Ruger, I like the Accutrigger of the Savage and it would make a good mate to my Savage 243. Yes I will be calling them. Also what do you think of the 357 as a coyote round, and what about the 44 magnum in a lever action?

Like Camel23 said, the Ruger bolt actions shoot pretty good for me(I've owned quite a few). My 223 will shoot nearly any load you care to run through it at, or under MOA, with it's choice loads doing considerably better. I did float the barrel, bed the action, and re-work the trigger to be fair though. It shot pretty good before that, but really shines since the work. I'd still rather use the compact on a calling stand though if I chose to stick with a 223.

As far as the 357 magnum being a good calling rifle, I think it's pretty hard to beat myself. I don't shoot full powered loads in it for calling. My pet load for everything from plinking to predators is a 125g Remington(bulk/Midway) soft point at a muzzle velocity of 1500 fps. This load is extremely accurate, and will tear up a pop can at 150 yards. I regularly practice with this rifle up to 200 yards, and bust clay birds at that range fairly regularly. It really thumps predators hard at calling ranges, but unless I hit solid bone on the way out, it usually only leaves an exit about the size of a nickel.

I guess the 44 magnum would be good too, but I imagine it'd blow a pretty nasty hole in a good hide, unless you were shooting 44 specials.

By the way...

I actually just got in from hunting, and shot a nice coyote with my Ruger Hornet. She was facing head on at about 60-70 yards, and dropped to the shot. I hit her in the brisket, and back into the vitals(no exit). I made 4 stands, and took her on the third, so all in all, it was a good night's hunt.

[Spyro Andes]

outdoorz4me,

Calling rifles are a subject that is near and dear to my heart.  

While big game hunting is by far my major focus, it seems that I spend the most days in the field every years shooting called cats and coyotes.

I didn't notice where you are from or really how you hunt, I hunt predators day and night using an electronic caller, but I'll still toss out my theory for the perfect predator calling stable.  Take it or Leave it, this is what I believe.

Day Time Calling Guns

I hunt daytime dogs on the ground using a remote digital caller.  I usually setup about 15-20 yards directly cross wind from the caller.  My daytime calling rifles are almost always light weight hunting rifles that are chambered in a varmint caliber.  Guns like a Remington Model Seven in 17 Rem or 223,  Remington LS in 221 Fireball, Remington VL SF in 17 Rem or 221 or 223, and etc.  Light quick handling guns that are generally shot at 15-50 yards but can reach out and zap em when the hang at 200 yards.  The scope of choice for me is either Burris 1.5-6x or Leupold 1.5-6x42mm with the scope always cranked down to 1.5x power.

When I am doing a two person stand, especially with a novice shooter or when visibility is poor (either from flatness of terrain, brush or fog), I'll put the front shooter on a 10ga shotgun.  My predator shotgun in an old Ithaca Mag-10, the predecessor of the Remington SP-10, with a 24" barrel.  The back shooter, who is about 30 yards crosswind from the call, is still on the lightweight varmint rifle.  About the only exception to this is when I get a very good vantage point, I'll take out my medium weight varmint rifle, like a Winchester Coyote and rifles of that ilk, that has a 4.5-14x scope on it in something like 223 Ackley Improved.  Our average shot is probably around 50 yards,

Night Calling Guns

When we hunt at night, we are generally calling from a vehicle and the shooters are shooting out of the top of a camper shell.  The camper shell has a padded railing that is used for a front rest. The first shooter is using a benchrest style of gun, w/ a 4.5-14x heavy duplex reticle, in something like 243 or 6mm BR.  The rear of the rifle is generally supported using a rear bag.  These rifles are capable of shooting minute of gnat.  The second shooter, who also runs the caller & the lights, has the Ithaca Mag-10 for "truck dogs".  Shots at night will vary from 15 feet to 350 yards.  Our average shot at night is in the 125 yard range.

[varmit_master]

Hi i would look at the Savage  model 11 in a 22 250 or 223 it will shoot good with just about any ammo you put in it VM

[RickG]

I have to agree with the Savage model 11 in 22/250.  It's my primary Coyote gun .  The rifle is very accurate out of the box but due to the light stock shoots better off of sticks than the bags. I shoot 55 Berger Match They are very accurate but not fur friendly.

Rick

[dougk]

Does anyone use shotguns when hunting coyotes.  In the Texas Hill Country, that is covered by cedar, many shots are under 50yrds.  For that reason I went with a 30-06/12 ga as my all around gun for deer, coyotes and pigs.  I know the 30-06 might be a little heavy but the 135 grain rounds work well, but are not fur friendly.

[varmit_master]

Hi dougk i use a Rem SP 10ga on coyotes with Fed lead copper plated BB's 2 1/4 oz load and you can reload a 100gr 30 cal bullet i dont think the coyote would be worth much because i think they are HP i reload a 125gr Nosler BT for my 300 wby for coyotes VM

[prairiedog555]

Where I hunt, in the creek bottoms surrounded by trees with cut grain fields the main thing is getting them to check out your set.  Just need a gun that will kill them.  I use a rabbit decoy and an elec caller and sit in a teepee blind.  I need a short barrel gun.  use my mini 14 and SKS.  shooting them on the run is verrry exciting.  who cares if you do not connect, as long as you are in action it is a thrill.  Put the lead in the air.    I never hear of hunting this way, except for shotguns.  I have killed many on the third shot.
Also a lot of the locals use dogs to chase after they have surrounded a section.  Farmers always give permission, they hate them.  The coyotes are always a good distance in front of the dogs, they barely break a wind.   
For my mind this is much more exciting than shooting at 300yd.  But I do that too.
P.S.  I always know where my shots go,  I am very safe.  won't take a shot on a skyline